General Election - 8 June 2017

[basalte]

Hi Will but in the interests of balance I will respond. I  agree that May is running an appalling campaign but otherwise I disagree with every single word you write.  

What I believe is set out in all my posts above and other posts but very briefly-

There is a war in this country between the priorities of the megarich and the priorities of the rest of us. (By megarich I mean people with billions not a semi in Surbiton and a Smart Car and SUV for instance)

 That war has been waged for centuries. Sometimes open (The English Civil War) and sometimes secretive.  "To those that hath it shall be given" is the watchword of the usual rulers but they were exhausted and destabilised after WW2 and those seeking social justice got a foot in the door of Government and made big decIsions such as the NHS that are still thankfully with us.   

Change that benefits all of us (even the rich if they need an ambulance or the fire service ) has to be fought for.

Throughout history people who fought against slavery, child labour, decent working hours, decent pay,  to extend the vote, get a health service, have had to do just that-FIGHT.  In that fight the 2 sides wage a war of ideas. The oldest chestnut in the book now is that anyone who wants change is called a "communist / it`s unworkable / terrorist sympathiser. Usually those ideas get paid to be disseminated by a billionaire press baron such as Murcdoch Rothermere Desmond and the Barclay twins. These are not nice people. They say they care about us but they do not.

As above I am not trying to get anyone to vote for a particular politician  but  to explain where I`m coming from-because I know its not from where many others are coming from (although that`s changing).  There is also no law that says rich people are not allowed t care for poor people. If you went to Italy you would know that Ferrari and Prada voted Communist in their day. They had all sorts of reasons but being "Champagne Socialists isn`t one of them.

Just sayin` 

[Chillidoggy]

"The oldest chestnut in the book now is that anyone who wants change is called a "communist / it`s unworkable / terrorist sympathiser."

Nonsense.

[Kimbers]

3 hours ago, basalte said:

 

There is a war in this country between the priorities of the megarich and the priorities of the rest of us. (By megarich I mean people with billions not a semi in Surbiton and a Smart Car and SUV for instance)

 

Dan...........Dan................how do I start this,

I often find myself agreeing with much you say and much you say I don't agree with I understand. However, I find myself with a dilemma with Corbyn and Labour at present.

You see, I'm not Mega rich but what you say about the "war" between them and us is just plain wrong.  Corbyn and Labour hate anyone with aspirations, who work hard to reach their goals and earn good money because they have worked hard all their lives, educated themselves and have a good work ethic. 

However I do do 2 jobs and this puts me firmly into the 40% tax bracket.................. only with Corbyn I will be in the 45% tax bracket because I obviously earn too much and he classes me as mega rich! However, I do 2 jobs for a reason.

1. I have an Autistic son (and one with Aspergers) who I have never asked for help from the state for schooling or support (despite the fact they are 20 and one prob will stay at home for our life time).

2. I have a larger house, yes, but only because they both live at home and they need their own room.

3. I have a single mom daughter who is now working and we have my Grand daughter 3-4 days a week. We pay for her Nursery, to get her to and from just so my daughter can work and not claim job seekers allowance and loads of state benefit. the father purposely quit his job to avoid paying anything and she gets about £15 a month of his benefits so no help there.

4. We paid for my daughter to go through university (despite this causing us major financial hardships) in London, to become a Doctor. Do you think we will get back any of the £70,000 we paid for her accomodation/living expenses etc? Of course not.

We do and have done all this without claiming a penny from the state. You know why? Because both of us do 2 jobs to pay for it all. 

Under Labour I would pay not only 45% on my PAYE, but have my Council tax doubled because £175 a month obviously isn't enough!!!!! But I would also be taxed more on all the other things I MUST have to do my job. A Company car, an allowance for working from home etc etc so it's not just about the extra PAYE.

We have calculated, taking into account a better life for us as well. That we would be better both quitting 1 job. We would then claim income support, my daughter would have to claim more Support from the govt as we couldn't afford to pay for the Nursery or getting her there or my daughters rent that we sometimes have to help with. I would claim disability for my son/sons, extra help with training and getting them to and from wherever the council will have to pay for them to go during the day. This is only the beginning of what I would have to claim. 

And why must I pay more than I already do? because of people who do one job which is poorly paid and demand state benefit instead of getting off their ass and doing what I have ALWAYS done, since I married Wendy, Work 2 jobs. And Yes I know what it is like to be on minimum wage! I used to sell Trucks for a living when I was 32. My basic was £10,000 a year and with commission I used to earn no more than £16,000. So, with 2 older kids, newborn twins and a wife with throat cancer so she couldn't work, what did I do? Well I didn't claim any benefit! I drove a customers truck on Saturdays and Sundays and cleaned dishes in a Restaurant 3 evenings a week as well.

Labour is the Politics of jealousy, pure and simple. they take people like me, who work hard because I have to, to stop claiming any benefits, and knock any aspiration out of them. By taxing them more because "You earn more so you can afford to pay more". Well let me tell you, I already do!!!! Thats why taxation is based on a percentage, so the more you earn the more you pay! Then "people like me" will do less, earn less, pay less into the system and claim more. Pure and simple!

I hate May, I dislike many of the Tory Policies but for me their saving grace is Brexit. The harder the better and their "Pro Aspirational Tax Policy". Simple choice really.
 

 

 

 

[franjipane]

Are you talking about the land value tax thing? So far Labour and other parties have only said they'd look at reforming council tax, which most people would agree is not a great system and sometimes a bit unfair.  Council tax is likely to be reformed whoever is elected IMHO -

https://fullfact.org/economy/labours-land-value-tax-will-you-have-sell-your-garden/

My council tax went up by the maximum possible allowed increase this year, it's eye watering now and i'm not exactly in a big house!

So in summary we generally think May is running a terrible campaign and we don't like Corbyn much either but some of the policies are alright and some are a bit much 

[Chillidoggy]

"So in summary we generally think May is running a terrible campaign and we don't like Corbyn much either but some of the policies are alright and some are a bit much."

Works for me, Steve.

[basalte]

Hi Tony....you raise a lot of issues but I will try to well-"assuage" is probably not the right word !- but supply some nitty-gritty, some meat on the bones as it were.

There are swings and roundabouts. Without wanting to sound patronising I do not think that it can be all bad news for you.  

The Labour manifesto says you pay higher tax on earnings of over £80,000 a year. Otherwise there is no increase.

(I am a solicitor and my wife works in publishing and even if we both worked in those jobs full-time we would not be £80,000 a year despite all the mythical crap about all lawyers being rich) .

If you are subject to that increase the BBC put the annual extra payable at £400 a year. Not exactly a fortune but if people have big outgoings I agree it would make a difference of course.

The Tories won`t tell us how much they will raise taxes by,  but they have been very careful NOT to say they WON`T raise taxes. The experts say that they will have to whatever.

As Labour are abolishing tuition fees as of immediate effect that`s £9 K your offspring won`t have to pay for a course. Plus the application of a grant would lessen student loans still further. 11.8 billion. Costed. In the manifesto.

Tories : No change, carry on dissuading talented young people from studying because of the cost.

The idea is to free students from the stress and depression caused by inevitable debt.

Labour is instituting free childcare also so those (astronomical ) costs will be lessened.

Yes there are scroungers but if the companies that employed them paid them more they wouldn`t have to claim benefits in the fist place-see the figures for Tesco.

I simply do not recognise the "jealousy" reference. Labour set up the Open University so that working-class people could study in their spare time, get a qualification and get a better job. In the 1950s Tory Harold MacMillan was boasting about how many council houses and comprehensive schools  the Tories had built . All "free money" that is suddenly a crazy idea along with abolishing tuition fees because the mega rich want more for themselves.

   If you look at the figures people The people with "no aspirations" are a tiny minority. The idea of "money for nothing" irritates many hard-working people-of course it does. But at the risk of repeating my stuff again, the sums involved are infinitesimally small compared with the sums extracted by the Philip Greens of this world. Its those we need to go after.

A hard Brexit is another subject altogether but as a lawyer doing deals most weeks  I can tell you most sincerely (!) that our Prime Minister shows NO sign whatsoever of possessing the necessary skills. 

Ian, what can I say, I will need to quote 

some history books but recently many were eager to call Nelson Mandela a "Communist Terrorist" .....to be neutral about it apartheid has been history for 23 years and the sky hasn`t fallen in...  

 

 

 

Edited June 1, 2017 by basalte
typo

[Barrykearley]

3 minutes ago, basalte said:

Yes there are scroungers but if the companies that employed them paid them more they wouldn`t have to claim benefits in the fist place-see the figures for Tesco.

No that's plain wrong chap. Folks choose to sit on their ass and do f all. 

If you don't believe that to be a statement of fact - frankly you are walking around areas of our towns and cities with your eyes firmly shut

[Gashead1105]

How is all this 'free' stuff that Labour are promising going to be paid for?

 

[basalte]

Hi Barry give me a few hours and I will dig the figures out for you. The crux is that corporations are relying on the State to meet their wages bills !

Now that`s what I call scrounging.

[silverfrost]

I have to say I have no idea who to vote for !   I will not be the Libs for sure. 

I am of the mindset to let the conservatives see Brexit through. 

May be a no vote from me though 

[basalte]

Hi Will, read the Labour manifesto. You may think their sums are crap but at least there are some there to read.

 Incidentally the money held abroad by the mega rich is colossal and it was not earned by the sweat of anyone`s brow.   I am hoping to see that well and truly taxed.

[C8RKH]

Massive respect @Kimbers for being a proud and hard working member of the community. And I'm not being sarcastic in saying that. If you read most of my posts they are about making sure that people who work hard, drag themselves up, provide and take little from the state, are allowed to enjoy the fruits of their labour rather than being persecuted for being "successful". I work hard. I provide for my family. We ask the state for little in return - I can relate to that @Kimbers and have done what you have done in many ways (multiple jobs, provide, etc..).

This is still a country where a non university educated person, a non born with a silver spoon in their mouth person, can make a real difference and grab themselves a really nice laugh. It's not actually that hard. You just need to want it and you need to sacrifice a bit to get it. Or then you could just whinge and moan and bitch about the people who have done it and tax the fookers to hell so you don't have to!  Lol. Only joking....

I find it hard to relate to Labour. New labour ruined the dream for me and I am not as easy to forgive as some and not as blind as some as to just what New Labour delivered - to me, whether you like the term or not, it was bloody champagne socialism.  

Corbyn might want to go back to the core values, but I also remember the militant left and what they did to my country in the 70's!  They did as much to kill off manufacturing in this country as did the Tories under Thatcher in the '80's. In fact, you could argue she just finished the job they started! Socialism. Communism.The left. Why is it always seen as the "good side" of politics. Some of the most ruthless and shameful regimes across the world, the ones that have institutional torture, racism, and have put their subjects into abject and debilitating poverty have been left wing, socialist and communist states! The ideals and the dreams have not, anywhere they have been deployed, worked.

New Labour was about as far right as the left can get from socialism and communism, but by george, it did create many of the same results and actually widened the wealth gap, the attainment gap, and created serious social division. It also took us into unlawful wars and arguably created the dangerous situation we have now with terrorism through a disastrous, interventional, foreign policy in the Middle East.  However, prove me wrong and give me the shining examples I seek of a successful, heavenly, socialist or communist regime?

I've gravitated to the right if you like, to the Tories, over a long time. They give the impression of the party of getting the house in order and under control. The far right, Fascism, well, we were given a very graphic and appalling view of what that entails in Germany and Italy and to some extents Spain.  Not appetising at all. The UK's Tory party is about as far left as the right can get from Fascism.  All this talk about nasty party. really. The Nazi's. Now, there is a nasty party. Stalin's communist party. Another nasty party. The Khmar Rouge - very nasty. The UK's Tory party. Nasty? Ha.  Really? Come on. Let's actually get some real perspective back please.  This is the UK.  Neither the Labour Party or the Tory is at any extreme and neither are nearer to holy than nasty.  We are stuck in the centre. Centre left versus centre right.  There is so much hatred and bile and yet the UK is one of the best, the safest, the healthiest and the nicest places to live in the world. Come on. Think about it. It is!

This is where our politics is going wrong. Too much personality. Too much celebrity. Too much bile and easily given hatred. Too little appreciation of the good we have. Christ. All we are arguing over is first world problems.

If people really don't like it here then leave. Just go. Want to escape the despot "nasty party" Tories then fine. Just go. However, make sure you go somewhere where they don't have only first world problems. Where the public utilities are non existent. Healthcare is no care. Corruption is anywhere and everywhere. Murder, rape and abduction are the popular sports.

As a famous person once said, "we really don't know how lucky we are". Time to get some perspective back.

[basalte]

I have been a lawyer for 25 years. A lot of lawyering is about doing deals with reference to the relevant law.

There is also a human element-of empathy with the other side of the story, the respective strengths and pressures you can discern behind their tactics.

They want to expect some consistency in your bargaining position and you theirs. 

There is consideration as to what a judge would think of it all if it goes to trial.

There is consideration of what your client wants, balancing a reasonable result that might be less if the stress and strain of taking it to court is taken into account.

Theresa May has proved by her various actions that she is hopeless.

Don`t get me wrong-I accept Brexit in principle and reading Varoufakis reinforces that view .

But having "the lady`s for turning -just not turning up" negotiating ? What a joke.  Yes I would prefer Sir Keir Starmer QC MP to be doing it that`s for sure.

[Gashead1105]

What do you mean by 'held abroad'? How is that going to be taxed, on what basis and by whom?

[basalte]

C8RKH HI, I think Corbyn is centre-left. Railways and utilities in public ownership, massive council house building , comprehensives for a start.

All approved and encouraged by Winston Churchill and Harold Macmillan.   

The level of corporation tax proposed at 26% puts Corbyn to the right of Margaret Thatcher !

 

Hi Will I mean the tax havens in British Sovereign Territories .

The Caymans, Antigua, The Virgin Islands .

All are subject to British control and can be legislated to lose their tax haven status.

If the billionaires want to move their money elsewhere there can be a transfer tax.

(-or would you rather we just made old Margaret down the road lose her motability car and pay (more !) for her to take taxis instead ?)

   

[Barrykearley]

18 minutes ago, basalte said:

Hi Barry give me a few hours and I will dig the figures out for you. The crux is that corporations are relying on the State to meet their wages bills !

Now that`s what I call scrounging.

Now that I'd like to know about.

kfc, macdonalds et al using apprenticeships is disgusting. But let's not forget nearly all retailers pay at least minimum wage.

tax - frankly to the big corps they just take the piss. While all the while the small guys get raped by the tax doesn't have to be taxing taxman.

[Gashead1105]

10 minutes ago, basalte said:

Hi Will I mean the tax havens in British Sovereign Territories .

The Caymans, Antigua, The Virgin Islands .

All are subject to British control and can be legislated to lose their tax haven status.

If the billionaires want to move their money elsewhere there can be a transfer tax.

(-or would you rather we just made old Margaret down the road lose her motability car and pay (more !) for her to take taxis instead ?)

   

Of course it's that easy. The legislation could be introduced and passed instantly, right? 

[basalte]

Hi Barry, here are some figures as promised :

"Tesco Supermarkets  employs 209,000 people on low pay. They are paid so badly that in 2015 they claimed £364,000,000 in Working Tax Credits and Housing Benefits. 

Tesco have 2620 stores in the UK. That means that we the taxpayers subsidise the wages of Tesco employees by £139,000 per store annually".

( I see there were stories about this in the Daily Mail and other papers at the time...difficult to see how the housing benefit bill has stayed where it is given housing costs since)

That`s why we shop at Aldi !

 

[basalte]

I`m working too hard here sounding off , want me grub !

From research no-one seems to have a procedural problem with closing down the British Tax havens-looks like its a matter for the Chancellor of the Exchequer....

Of course, if their mega rich mates have a stash there, they have a BIG prroblem with it . Yes you Mr. Cameron ! (Oh, where are you - it must be saying "Strong and Stable" all the time, that`s asking for trouble).

[Barrykearley]

1 hour ago, basalte said:

Hi Barry, here are some figures as promised :

"Tesco Supermarkets  employs 209,000 people on low pay. They are paid so badly that in 2015 they claimed £364,000,000 in Working Tax Credits and Housing Benefits. 

Tesco have 2620 stores in the UK. That means that we the taxpayers subsidise the wages of Tesco employees by £139,000 per store annually".

( I see there were stories about this in the Daily Mail and other papers at the time...difficult to see how the housing benefit bill has stayed where it is given housing costs since)

That`s why we shop at Aldi !

 

There's a fat lot of not much difference in pay between the Aldi and Tesco. Do not believe the hype. 

The issue is the benefits systems are utterly broken.

[franjipane]

You can't just lay the blame with the benefits system though, Tesco is known to have many, many offshore subsidiaries in order to avoid paying tax in the UK.  Essentially, we ordinary taxpayers are subsidising Tesco's wages, while the top brass of the company get massive wages and move all the cash out of the country.  Our current government (and the previous one!) have been far too happy to let that continue, so far the Labour manifesto has been clearer about wanting to sort that out.  It's not just Tesco, loads of them do it here and in the States.

[Steve V8]

1 hour ago, basalte said:

 

"Tesco Supermarkets  employs 209,000 people on low pay. They are paid so badly that in 2015 they claimed £364,000,000 in Working Tax Credits and Housing Benefits. 

Tesco have 2620 stores in the UK. That means that we the taxpayers subsidise the wages of Tesco employees by £139,000 per store annually".

 

 

And there you have it....I just wonder if Dan has a portfolio of properties?

In Bristol, the average price of a house is over ten times the average wage, which means, you ain't getting a mortgage.

WHY IS THIS, Because 5% of the population now own more than one house, some have a "portfolio" of thirty or more.

WHAT IS THE POINT of building tens of thousands of new houses...... They are instantly snapped up by unscrupulous landlords, who then rent them out to the poor Tesco workers, who in turn have to claim housing benefits to pay the vastly inflated rents, to line the pockets of their greedy landlords so they can go out and buy another first time buyers house, pushing up prices still further, and once more denying my son or daughter of ever having the opportunity to get a foot on the housing ladder.

WHY can't the politicians recognise this problem, perhaps they are all on the property bandwagon. Personally I don't have a rental house, and I don't blame anyone that has. But the average private rental in this area is double that of a council house.

I suggest that anyone with more than three rental properties should be classed as a housing association, and have rents capped to the same rate as the local council. We can't let the few spoil it for the majority of young people and families any longer, those few are becoming ultra property rich, and the majority will never have anything, and we as taxpayers and the country will continue to be burdened with the massive housing benefits bill, continual rises in "the living wage" to try to reduce the benefits bill won't work, it will just create massive unemployment as employers can no longercontinue to pay an unrealistic minimum wage. And yet more benefits to be paid. It's a vicious circle of self destruction. And something I feel needs sorting out as a matter of urgency. 

Rant over...

 

 

[C8RKH]

Wouldn't worry too much about it really Steve as Corbyn ( McDonad actually as Corbyn is just the shop window) has a simple plan to make all the middle class higher rate tax payers pay for it all. There you go. In one fell swoop the problems are solved and all gone away.

Times have changed.our parents generation and our generation got fat and greedy revelling in house price inflation. ReMortgaging for fancy kitchens, cars, watches and jewelery and holidays. Lovely jubbely...

People then thought stuff this. I don't need to save for a pension and retirement. I just need to buy houses with interest only mortgages. Spend a few quid on a dodgy makeover then make a 6 - 13% yield whilst paying 2-5% interest. House prives always go up so when I sell them I'll pay off the mortgages and live off the rest of the cash pot as my pension.

Easy money.  Fook my kids and everyone elses. Not my fault they can't buy a house. Governments fault init as the nasty party have forced everyone on to 0 hours contracts and a shit minimum wage.

It's so easy for one side to simply throw mud at the other. Left on right. Right on left. We're all as much to blame as the poloticians as we've become obsessed with celebrity, wealth, get rich quick for no effort, entitlement and it's all about me.

Do I think we eed some Corbynomics? Actually, in many ways, hell yes. Is now, at the start of the Brexit negotiations tge right time? Hell no.

Combine Corbyns social policies with the Tories make work pay and whomever does that has my vote.

Just don't make me laugh by saying the Liverals or Greens.

[Barrykearley]

34 minutes ago, franjipane said:

You can't just lay the blame with the benefits system though, Tesco is known to have many, many offshore subsidiaries in order to avoid paying tax in the UK.  Essentially, we ordinary taxpayers are subsidising Tesco's wages, while the top brass of the company get massive wages and move all the cash out of the country.  Our current government (and the previous one!) have been far too happy to let that continue, so far the Labour manifesto has been clearer about wanting to sort that out.  It's not just Tesco, loads of them do it here and in the States.

I don't lay the blame with the benefits system.

but - when I was young these systems didn't exist. My parents worked 60+ hours a week each - now you can work 16-20 each and get state handouts.....

the system is wrong - I don't blame folks for working it. 

I do have rental property - bedsits - dealing with the very bottom of the housing market. This are is going to explode over coming years. The cuts and changes to the system are putting this sector into overheat. Not a week goes by where I'm not approached to sell up. Under Blair and Brown - rents increased above inflation every year - year on year. I see it from both sides - it's broken and it stinks.

@Steve V8 you are absolutely correct - we need to cap rents - and we need to make the housing system work for the people. Rental protection also needs to protect the landlord though - any arrears and it should be breach of contract and immediate possession after only a short period. There are professional con artist tenants whom make a nice living renting, claiming housing benefit and pocketing the lot.

[franjipane]

Completely agree mate.