General Election - 8 June 2017

[basalte]

As we are still a free country (just) I will certainly respond to the above "isn't anyone but the Tories awful ?" cosy club.

Oh how predictable. On the day that  May`s entourage  shuts local journalists in a room so they can`t cover her car crash "meet the Party Workers -sorry public "   campaign ,

-the media  crows crow and crow about Diane Abbott screwing up.

Yes she screwed up in ONE interview out of SEVEN that day. She should not have screwed up at all but she corrected her figures at the end. Her policies are costed and correct.

Police funding Theresa. Do you think there should be more ? Hello ? Hello ? Anyone there ? Wassat ?  " Strongman Gable "-sorry can`t hear you through that bunker door Theresa.

Barry you call her "horrible racist incompetent and vile". These are strong words that are bound to raise hackles with someone. Where is your evidence ? Have you met her ? Spoken face to face with her ?

I suspect that Theresa May is incompetent and vile but I might at least give her a chance to explain why she thinks cuts cuts and more cuts to public services are the way ahead for our country while her parrot like chanting of strong and stable strong and stable strong and stable goes on and on and on with no evidence to back it up. I can shout over and over that I am a fruitbat covered in green foam but it doesn`t make it true.  

Expect more in this vein as the election (oh funny that -if you are so strong and stable why do we need an election ?) proceeds .

[C8RKH]

56 minutes ago, basalte said:

As we are still a free country (just) I will certainly respond to the above "isn't anyone but the Tories awful ?" cosy club.

It's only still a free country (just) as the Labour Party are not in power and taxing the shite out of us who work for a living to allow those that don't want to work to live freely.   Corbyn's objective and policies will only serve to put us all on benefits whilst we tax the rich more and more to pay for more and more of us to live freely. Until of course those that do still work, who earn and create wealth, get so fed up of not seeing any benefit that they then join the rest of us, living freely.  Stalin would be proud of the approach indeed. Especially as he has already told Russia he won't hit the button or fight back. Let's get Brexit out of the way and then the Russian's won't even need to annex us from Europe. They can just march right in and say Hi, unopposed.

"I suspect that Theresa May is incompetent and vile but I might at least give her a chance to explain why she thinks cuts cuts and more cuts to public services are the way ahead for our country"

Remember the last act of the last Labour Chancellor?  It was to leave the incoming Government a note saying "it's all gone, the coffers are empty, we've spent it all".  So what did you expect the incoming Government to do? Ignore the fact we were flat broke and continue to borrow and borrow and take no action to try to resolve the situation?  We had 12 years of Labour rule - in that time we had two major conflicts (one was totally illegal!); we had the meltdown of the banks due to lax regulation by the Labour government despite many warnings. We had the raid on private pensions that screwed up millions of hard working people's retirement.  We had the sell off of our Gold reserves at the lowest historical Gold prices for years.  Etc. Etc. Etc.

Yeah, roll on Corbyn, Labour and a return to the chaos and dark days of the 70's!  They killed off manufacturing and more industries than Maggie Thatcher could in the 80's, in the 70's.  Oh happy days. Come on down Corbyn....  I can't wait.....

 Glad it's a free country I am.

[basalte]

"Taxing the shite out of those of us who work for a living to allow those who don`t want to work to live freely".

Sorry Slim Boy Fat, I know plenty of people with your views ( and you may know some with mine)  

I know very full well that in your world almost everyone who doesn`t have a job is a "scrounger". That`s the basis of much right-wing libertarian ideology and funnily enough what many people read in the papers every day..  what a coincidence.

I will avoid a very boring stat-fest by stating that the figures simply do not support your very right-wing agenda.

Benefit fraud is a tiny proportion of the social security budget. Billions in benefits actually go unclaimed. If you don`t believe me go to all the official figures. The benefits paid to those in work but on low pay are far higher-perhaps their employers should foot the bill not The State. Apparently when a private company scrounges off the State its fine. When a scrote with 8 kids a flatscreen and a pit bull does it everyone (ie the gutter press) goes mad...

I honestly don`t know what Stalin has got to do with this but last time I looked Stalin certainly did not approve of shirkers (except him and his immediate gang of course) - I agree with you that his example of "socialism " is to be utterly avoided.

The Russia of today is certainly not Stalin`s Russia and much of its arms industry is underpinned by British banks. In the frankly unlikely event of a Russian invasion we should fight with much-increased conventional weapons and not commit national suicide and genocide at the same time.  

Strangely you get benefits cut in this country if you are disabled. You have to prove that you are unfit to work. This frankly brutal policy is what the Tories have left us with. It is costing lives. Tory proposals to close 24 A&E departments won`t help....

Of course wealth has to be created. Much of it is created off the sweat of employees. Thank God for the NHS which means that a healthy workforce can easily be maintained. The alternative is nothing short of Victorian.

This Tory Government has borrowed and borrowed and borrowed and borrowed-more than the previous Labour Government. And what has been achieved ? Stagnant wages and inflation.  

Not even the Maybot has promised to increase pensions or lower taxes.  Today all they could do was slag off Corbyn (apparently the Tory poster wants "Bombs for the Army" (ouch) " and a tax and debt bombshell from Labour. Well itb helps Mrs. May if you would actually tell the electorate (remember them?) what YOUR policies are first ! The least we could expect.

As you know from this thread  I would not try to defend Tony Blair`s economic or foreign policy record . I see Tony Blair basically as John Major with a spray tan and electric guitar.  

The crucial issue is that the real elite to be combatted are not Metropolitan croissant munchers in Islington (although they can be annoying)

they are those with the billions that could be invested in Britain and make this country a world leader in new technologies but instead they sit on their fortunes like dogs in mangers  .

 

(-Is it easy for others to believe what I believe (and much of what Corbyn believes) ? I believe so. Look at the figures do the maths and combine it with a desire to see our nation succeed for the vast majority and not Sir Philip Green and the logic becomes inexorable).

 

   

[C8RKH]

@basalte you missed the purposeful subtely of my opening - "those who DON'T want to work".

I am well aware that there are many people who WANT to work but cannot for a whole host of reasons. Many of these people are desperate to support themselves but cannot through no fault of their own. I'm not a hearltless sod.

But I do believe we both know there are people in our society who do like to take the piss and are free loading scrounging gets. These people steal from the hardest hit in our communities on a daily basis.

I work for a living. Pay my dues PAYE. I am not self employed or a company director who can, how shall we say, manipulate the figures.

I'm actually not that right wing. I am just thoroughly disillusioned with the Labour Party and its politics and frankly appalled at the quality, or lck, in their MPs. To come think of it, all MPs!

If I miss quoted figures on a deal the way Diane Abott dd I would have ben sacked on tge spot. Yet you ask us to give her some slack! No! There is no excuse for that level of sloppinness.

[Barrykearley]

3 hours ago, basalte said:

.Barry you call her "horrible racist incompetent and vile". These are strong words that are bound to raise hackles with someone. Where is your evidence ? Have you met her ? Spoken face to face with her ?

Her statements about the education of her son are well documented - and offensive in almost every left wing bleeding heart liberals reading as well as those on the right. She also made some vile comments about white nurses - the list goes on - she says before she thinks and is a liability. If a right wing representative talked in a similar manner as she has - they would be hauled before the courts.

 

1 hour ago, basalte said:

"Taxing the shite out of those of us who work for a living to allow those who don`t want to work to live freely".

Sorry Slim Boy Fat, I know plenty of people with your views ( and you may know some with mine)  

I know very full well that in your world almost everyone who doesn`t have a job is a "scrounger". That`s the basis of much right-wing libertarian ideology and funnily enough what many people read in the papers every day..  what a coincidence.

Benefit fraud is a tiny proportion of the social security budget. Billions in benefits actually go unclaimed. If you don`t believe me go to all the official figures. The benefits paid to those in work but on low pay are far higher-perhaps their employers should foot the bill not The State. Apparently when a private company scrounges off the State its fine. When a scrote with 8 kids a flatscreen and a pit bull does it everyone (ie the gutter press) goes mad...

Strangely you get benefits cut in this country if you are disabled. You have to prove that you are unfit to work. This frankly brutal policy is what the Tories have left us with. It is costing lives. Tory proposals to close 24 A&E departments won`t help....   

Benefits numbers seem to be baffling and hidden as much as possible. We have numerous out of work benefits which I find it almost impossible to quantify quickly. The jobless figures are a massive misrepresentation of fact. I work in rental benefits properties on a routine basis, deal with tenants and housing claims weekly, see my neighbours who don't work daily. This issue is out of control and it needs sorting. 

There are a frankly shocking number of disability cars which are being paid for by s tax payers - and a fair chunk of these are for fat lazy workshy scroungers. I for one am not doubting the genuine cases - but let's not talk about war veterans who have these cars in the same light as fat Eric with his bad knees and sciatica who's hasn't worked in 30 years. Talk to anyone in the new car sales area - they will let you know exactly what I am referring too.

esa is a prime example - long term unemployed are placed on this for retraining. A whole business is made out of trying to get these back to work. I'd love to be able to find the numbers and expenditure to private training providers to try and get some of these into a job.

we as a country need to talk about this - everyone in every area will know an example of a blood sucking scrounging leech - it needs stopping. It's not fair on society and it is not fair on that individual or their family to sit and do nothing at the bottom of society with a chip on the shoulder whinging about how hard they have got it. Maggie Thatcher taught me something as a child growing up in a top floor flat on a rough as f&ck council estate - aspiration....

[basalte]

Hi Barry , I wouldn`t want to continue a rather sterile ping-pong about particular personalities who we are all bound to have different opinions on.

Just to say I wasn`t impressed by the media "coverage" of her undoubted screw-up yesterday. It felt like that story would come before Declaration of World War 3 the way they went on about it ! I have not been impressed by previous coverage by the "media" of legitimate issues that she has raised.  I think that these complicated issues of identity and our responsibilities get caricatured by the media .

It is  also worth pointing out that Ms. Abbott has shared a sofa on telly many times with Maggie Thatcher`s former Defence Minister Michael "SAS" Portillo and they obviously get on perfectly well as people (as should we all). That does not suggest to me, inherent personal "vileness" .

I suspect that the only viable answer here would be found in actually sitting round a table with Ms. Abbott  ourselves and making allegations to her face which she is well used to facing. Personally I do not trust the media to interpret her motives in good faith.  I think the point I was making is that the motivation and context for her remarks does make it inevitable that some would accuse her of racism. If someone believes that black people are discriminated against  that is always going to be  raised as a "problem" for the rest of us (because if you accept that premise then of course inevitably will be). That is ripe to be interpreted as "reverse racism". 

Having said that I recognise that her tone gets people`s "backs up" and note that one Maggie Thatcher had elocution lessons early on to make her sound less like a screeching harridan.

I am with you 100% on stopping people who abuse the benefits system. I just don`t think that taken in the round, it is the biggest or most immediate problem our country faces. It`s emotive because indeed many of us have worked hard for our lifestyle and don`t like seeing others getting " something for nothing". On the scale of "something for nothing " however, its peanuts compared to getting a six-figure bonus for plunging your bank into the red.   

I also like to think (as a left wing Social Democrat-the following is certainly not a Liberal policy bleeding heart or otherwise-) , that the State must intervene to offer education and local community work to these people before sanctioning them - a kind of National Service in fact.           

[march]

I have been trying to describe my views on Diane Abbott and the best I can come up with - She makes my skin crawl. Not very objective but honest I suppose.

[Chillidoggy]

27 years on, now in her grave, and Thatcher is still pissing the lefties off. That's a very impressive performance, and one I'd aspire to.

[oilmagnet477]

On ‎03‎/‎05‎/‎2017 at 16:08, basalte said:

why she thinks cuts cuts and more cuts to public services are the way ahead for our country

Simple - the country is bankrupt (virtually) and we can't afford not to. it is perhaps a little unpalatable to recognise a few realities.

National debt has doubled since 2009, in spite of so called austerity measures.

I'd really like someone in the media to look up the word austerity and see how it actually translates to what has been done in this country over the last 7 years.

Then I'd like that someone to sit down with a WW2 survivor and discuss real austerity.

Public spending has gone UP

 

and even when measured against GDP it has still been maintained at higher levels than at any time during the previous Govt's tenure (apart from the 2 years prior to 2010 - in a cheap failed attempt by Labour to win votes?)

Successive Governments throughout history have been profligate with the Nation's finances and it will all fall apart at some point - who gets shafted then?

I pity my kids and potential grandkids

 

[C8RKH]

@oilmagnet477 I fear you are completely wasting your time with facts and truths in the UK.  

The simple reality is that the bleedin' hearts club on the left only whinge and whine about how the fascist bastards on the right CUT funding for public services, even when they don't.

The fascist bastards on the right only whinge and whine about how the bleedin' hearts club on the left just spends, spends, and spends even though their profligate spending does not actually increase people's standards of living.

Thus the way it has been for decades.

I do believe the Tories are starting to see a swing as they are focusing on the economy (i.e. you need a strong economy to pay for public spending) and making work pay (i.e. if you want a better standard of living, and you can work, then through work is how you get that better standard of living.

Some huge swings in the local elections. Ravenscraig - killed by Thatcher in the 80's and one of Scotland's poorest places, just returned a Tory council - wtf, no-one predicted that!  It's akin to a life long Liverpool FC supporter buying a copy of the Sun newspaper. It's just not meant to happen.  Other deprived areas of Scotland have returned Tory councillors. It's unbelievable to be honest what has happened.  Times are changing and until the Labour Party changes, it will increasing be left behind I fear and marginalised. If Corbyn was a true Labour Party supporter he would be having a very very long and hard conversation with himself in the mirror, instead of hanging on by whatever means possible. No point exercising principles if you have no power at all to influence or change anything.

[basalte]

Hi, its a member of Her Majesty`s Loyal Opposition again on this current topic thread. I will try to give you the big picture because that is where I`m coming from.

Ant,your graphics are impressive and your generous plea for a harder life for all of us is superficially compelling but the elephant in the room is doing to them what that baby elephant did on Blue Peter all those years ago.

Complaing about ever-growing levels of public spending is like driving  a car everywhere in second gear and then complaining that it`s crap.

The elephant that all the politicians (save one) studiously ignore is that Private wealth in the UK has increased by 14% to a record 658 billion pounds this year. (BBC News Sky etc). By "Private " I mean wealth owned by 1000 people and their families.

Please take account of that ; "1000 people and their families". Not companies employing people and paying them a decent wage so that they can buy things and have a decent life by the way . Not an accountable organisation whwre shareholders and/or voters can express dissent and sack Board members.

Just Private Families. 658 billion. That`s just not healthy , there is only so much caviar you can eat before you burst.

You will say "that`s their right". I agree that is the crucial issue here, no getting away from  it. 

A large village now owns more than  what was used to bail out the banks 9 years ago. (£500 million). The last time I looked that 500 billion has not resulted in economic normality much less higher living standards by any stretch of the imagination. The shrieks of outrage from the Tories would have been deafening had those banks been allowed to fail and cashpoints locked shut but  at least it would have been free-market capitalist logic to let them fail instead of giving these mega scroungers free handouts . And has the economy boomed since then ? No; real wages have stagnated in the UK on a par with Greece. 

Instead of lining the pockets of bilionaires` families and making London homes utterly unaffordable  that £1158 billion could have been put to use; investing in the future of industry housing and education. Will the billionaires and bankers be able to spend that in their lifetimes even ? 

You talk of WW2 austerity but the NHS was set up right slap bang in the middle of an exhausted bankrupt nation. They had the political will to do it. 

Meanwhile here and now for the rest of us a significant rise in interest rates alone would cripple millions with mortgages and debts to pay. UK personal debt is the highest in Europe.

I think its very sad that an alternative to the above farce is not being seriously discussed. This isn`t about Corbyns popularity or otherwise. If Joe Pasquale was making the same points about the British economy I`d support him. The voters have a 100% right to loathe him but it would be nice if they could do that NOT on the basis of what The Sun, The Mail The Telegraph the Express and the Times say about him. 

This thread isn`t about Brexit but Leave or Remain is all a bit of a red herring if the finance available to "Make Britain Great Again" just isn`t there.

  

[Barrykearley]

These rich folks are just taking the p&ss now.

vote labour - they will give everyone a million pounds and we will all live like kings.

[pete]

surely you cannot solve everything by taxing one class of people,everyone has to pay more if we want to raise more money

[Chillidoggy]

The politics of envy. Normal left-wing behaviour.

[Kimbers]

Actually I will come in here and defend Dan @basalte. He is just responding and defending his beliefs. I know Dan quite well and we have discussed and had very good debates elsewhere and in private chats. I for one, as someone with totally different views to him, would appreciate it if we keep this chat civil and I always value Dan's point of view, you can have a decent political debate without getting personal or by telling someone they are wrong. Please appreciate that not everyone has the same views or beliefs.

It may shock you all to learn that Dan is in a very highly rated profession and should be voting Tory like 99% of his fellow workers , but his belief system is based on fairness in society and looking after others less fortunate and I applaud him for sticking with those beliefs. I don't agree with them in modern society, but they are good beliefs to have.

That said I cannot vote Corbyn as I totally disagree with his policies. Not the labour party, I like some of their policies (for example on the NHS and Public sector support where needed). What I can't agree with is many of his nationalisation plans, his defence policy and attitude towards nuclear deterrant and power, his general lack of anything like a strong stance against those who would do us harm and the general fact that I just really don't like him....at all. Watching him refuse to stand or sing the National Anthem at the Battle of Britain ceremony just after he was made leader really made me realise what a absolute nightmare he would be for us.

I struggle with May because I think her cuts are too deep historically (for example on Police budgets) and many of their policies are unfair to those who deserve more, for example Nurses having a 2% payrise in 6 years whereas MP's got 11% last year alone! The cost of a reasonable payrise for Nurses, Police, Ambulance and Fire Crew would be so much less than cutting inheritance tax or something like that. 

But as a Brexiteer I also can't vote Libs, so my choice is purely Lab or Tory. Or spoil my slip as a protest vote. 

[C8RKH]

This may shock, but I actually agree with some of what Dan says, and on a couple of things, I have actually shifted my view as a result of some of the things he has said.  I welcome a hearty and healthy debate but it is ONLY of VALUE if people are willing to listen to both sides and use what they hear to inform their views.

I'm not anti NHS at all. I love the NHS and am hugely thankful we have it.  However, the NHS is a microcosm of our little island. At the top, you have the Consultants and Surgeons who earn a fantastic living on the back of the NHS. Their earnings, buying power, terms and conditions are night and day different from the people at the bottom of the pile in the NHS. Yet, without the lowly administrators, the cleaners, the auxillaries and the nurses etc the "NHS Elite" would struggle to survive.  Look at the difference in earnings between a top surgeon/consultant, their packages and their pensions and compare that to the others. I is truly disgraceful the disparity.  And yet, the NHS is subject to the same market forces as everywhere else and if it did not reward it's high earners they would leave. En masse many of them. For the Middle East. For Europe and the US. For the fat salaries and lifestyles that would be on offer.  How can this be right in a public service?  Is the NHS as efficient as it could be? Of course it is not. Is the NHS ripped off by suppliers? Of course it is. Efficiency should be what we strive for. Rather than penny pinching on some salaries, we should be looking to hold suppliers and others to account to ensure that the huge buying power of the NHS is being used for good, not exploited for greed.  Show me a party of any colour that truly has the idea, the gumption and the will to tackle the inefficiency and the inequality in the Health Service and I will vote for them. Don't just give me a soundbite that Labour is the party for the NHS. Labour in the last 20 years are as culpable as anyone in the mess that the NHS has become.

We can look at welfare. At Local Government. All of them are bloated, over weight and inefficient. You will often fine extremely committed, good, capable and efficient people there. But the majority of these good people are stifled, beaten down and held back by the majority who want the gravy train to continue. Show me the party with a real plan to tackle this waste and inefficiency and I will vote for them.

Maybe if we tackle the waste and inefficiency (which is not necessarily a quick fix of sacking people at all) we will have more money available to improve the terms and conditions and pay of the lowest paid in these organisations without resorting to the "simple fix" of just throwing more money at it.

Take Education. We are crying out for more teachers yet me make it so hard and difficult for young new teachers to go into the profession. WTF is it that teachers who retire early because they have had enough, take their pensions etc and then go straight back on lucrative supply contracts? For crying out loud, that is so wrong on every level. Every one of these vultures is effectively taking a job that a new teacher or trainee could take. If you've taken your package and retired then p1ss off. Go. Get out of the system. After all you retired because you couldn't hack it any more.

I get the inequality. But the answer is not to tax out of existence a high rate tax payer just because they are there to be targeted. I've worked my butt off for 33 years to get where I am and finally i have some spare cash for myself and all Corbyn wants to do is to take even more of it!  How can that be fair? I could argue that I have paid my dues and just because I am now comfortable (not able to retire early like many senior Public Sector workers) off I should not be seen as an easy target and a cash cow.

If we want real change then we need to think differently. Forget about free everything. I can afford to pay for my prescriptions so make me pay for what I need. Don't give me it for free. That's criminal. I can afford to pay £30, £40, or even £50 for a GP consultation. So make me pay. I can accept the arguments that as I am well off I should and could pay.  That's fair. But a blanket tax increase to take an ever growing share of what I EARN (I left for work at 0500 this morning, was in an office by 0800 after travelling 200 miles, I'll will work till around 2030 tonight...). How is that fair to me. And how does that encourage me and others like me to continue to work harder and harder to earn. As it is now, for every pound I earn I hand over 45p already. Where is my incentive to keep going? After all, the harder I work, the more I earn, the more I contribute and likely the less I am to take out of the public service.

The discussion in my humble opinion transcends traditional party lines. The current party lines are broken. We need a new type of discussion. We need a new fairer society. I don't see any of the current parties being capable or brave enough to take it on and deliver it.  We need to re balance the UK - work hard, earn enough to have a good life, pay into the system, get taken care of when you need it. That's the British dream, or it should be in my opinion.  It does feel sometimes that it is sit around complaining (working or not), take no responsibility to better your position, get jealous of those who have stuff, find a way to take it off them - easy life. There needs to be a different way if we are ALL to be happy in the future and if we all are to benefit from a fairer society. Fairer is not just taking from one person and giving to another. It is also about making sure that everyone contributes to the best they can. however small that contribution may be. So, if the community is supporting you whilst you are unemployed, give something back to the community in unpaid work. Well, it's not unpaid as you could give something back for the benefits you are receiving courtesy of the tax paying community that is supporting you. What is wrong with that as a basic approach?

Dan - hope you don't feel under personal attack at any time. That certainly is not my intention. Healthy and vigorous debate and challenge is what we need to get the right answers for the future.

[910Esprit]

On 03/05/2017 at 17:53, basalte said:

 I see Tony Blair basically as John Major with a spray tan and electric guitar.  

Its not just you - Still makes me laugh

 

[oilmagnet477]

Dan, please don't take what I say the wrong way - I may not have got my message successfully across.

Again, in spite of evidence to the contrary, I also agree with some of what you say. God forbid, I even agree with some of what Jeremy Corbyn says and I violently dislike some of what the 'Tories' do.

However, I also recognise that we do not exist in some sort of utopian idealist world and Socialism simply doesn't work. It would be great if everyone did pay what they were expected to pay. IF the top earners did actually pay 40% on what they earn in that bracket, many of the problems wouldn't exist - but no Government EVER has been capable of changing the system to be fairer. Hiking tax rates to 98% didn't work in the 70s and it won't work now. Tax has to be seen to be fair to all. You may not appreciate me saying it, but the wealthiest have the ability to F Off if rates become too draconian and end up paying much less tax, which is utterly counter productive.

I wish that there could be more social acceptance of tax (at all levels), but then if you look at history, most politicians (across all parties) have had much the same views - just different (failed) policies in order to try and achieve it.

Take the dreaded and despised poll tax - one which I myself as an 18 year old significantly rebelled against - however, I was humbled into reconsideration by my Father (much to my disgust) when he pointed out that under the Rates system (and similarly the Council tax system), the house owner pays the bill and has only 1 local vote on how much is paid and what it is spent on. If the house has 4 age eligible residents there are 3 more votes that can be cast that suffer absolutely zero cost or consequence of crap and or expensive council run services. Is that fair, just because my Father (and now the same applies to me in later life) is the house owner? I think not.

There are no straightforward answers and there no one will ever please all the people all the time.

[Barrykearley]

Some of the stuff mr Corbyn has been spouting recently - actually makes sense.

but - I simply cannot forget the fact he is a loony IRA sympathising rebel politician. Then add into that how anything he suggests will be funded and the lack of detail here makes me laugh. 

[pete]

Yes Corbyn does make sense but we don't live in utopia

[basalte]

Hi guys no offence taken. An election is an important topic that is bound to raise some passions and if you knew of my other posts you would see that I actually respect someone with strong views about politics of whatever stripe far more than  someone who just has their head in the sand about it all !

Self-Styled Anarchists are the worst, talking about "smashing the state" when you know they`re on a horrible little youthful middle class ego trip with Mummy and Daddy footing the bill for their balaclavas ...

Obviously I aim to abide by the Forum`s guidelines .

Thanks for the kind words Tony, you do more to get "out there" in the streets at the sharp end than  I have ever done although some of my work has been important to the community in areas which I am not at liberty to discuss due to confidentiality. I will blow my own professional trumpet very briefly to say that I was the first item on the BBC Ten o`clock news in 2003 and 2013 about the murders of Zahid Mubarek and Sally Hodkin - both victims tragically failed by State institutions. I also worked with those defending our troops in Afghanistan against the failures of Government to supply them with adequate equipment (the "Snatch Land Rover" cases) ,  causing needless risk to life.  (I mention this just to offset thoughts that I am some kind of cardboard cut out keyboard warrior....)

It genuinely angered me to experience how the Government (Blair Brown and Cameron) pretended to care in public but definitely did not and do not care when it came to actually protecting our troops` lives. 

Well these are big topics encompassing (as they should) politics, global  economics and plain human nature...I totally agree that there can be no perfect solution to our problems and agree that no one Party has the answer. The labels "left" and "right" wing can indeed be an obstruction to debate. I believe in strong conventional military forces for this country (and Labour policy remains in favour of Trident) but do read about how much money gets wasted now by the MoD and it is frankly concerning. Two aircraft carriers with no planes ! To summarise I count myself as a patriot but not a nationalist; the achievements of our nation`s people  (including of course the Lotus-believe it or not mentioned by Corbyn as an example of British achievement ) are to be celebrated and shared with the world and too many times I see them treated in the press as if they are under threat, but they are not, whatever the Daily Mail says. (I suppose I do see them as under threat from the likes of tax exile Rupert Murdoch who owns far too much of the media).

It is only possible to touch on the subjects raised above (might have a go another day !) but we certainly need to plan to pay people enough for them to consume the essentials and build a decent life with a future. Someone in a dingy flat paying a high rent going out to work in a zero-hours contract just cannot build a future for themselves.

I think it is fair to say that I have never exhorted anyone on here to like Mr. Corbyn much less to vote for him. In  realtion to issues of patriotism I know that he has veterans amongst his friends and spoke to people who were enemies of Britain . Noting that Thatcher and Major both negotiated with the IRA in secret and even the Queen has shaken hands with Martin McGuiness I would not consider that a live issue.   I have tried to explain why I think he offers the best chance of a prosperous future and that future requires massive investment . The German and Japanese car industries were once tiny but did not emerge from nowhere; they resulted from sustained long-term investment . Other countries put us to shame with their high-speed rail networks - again that needed massive sustained investment. Short-term profiteering for the benefit of private shareholders militates against such a future; hence the need for more State planning in infrastructure. That is a view shared by Donald Trump amongst other errr...considered..views.

There is much more to be said and it may well get said. Need some grub now...

      

Edited May 10, 2017 by basalte
typo

[Chillidoggy]

I see the Labour manifesto has now been 'leaked'.

[oilmagnet477]

Corbyn now taken to running over cameramen in order to get where he needs to go.

To be fair, having seen the footage (no pun intended!), the entire press pack couldn't have got any closer if they'd tried.

[Chillidoggy]

And in a new BMW X5, too.

[Barrykearley]

11 hours ago, ian29gte said:

I see the Labour manifesto has now been 'leaked'.

Free money for all ???