UBER

[pete]

surely 500,000 + can`t be wrong. Is Khan being pressured too much by the black cabs. Why not discuss more before suddenly revoking their licence. Where else would 40,000 people being put out of work meet with such complacency from even the Labour party

[Barrykearley]

Khan is a toss pot. He needs chucking out. Another racist bigot hiding behind his cultural roots

[Chillidoggy]

1 hour ago, Barrykearley said:

Khan is a left-wing toss pot. He needs chucking out. Another racist bigot hiding behind his cultural roots

FTFY.

[andydclements]

There seem to be problems with Uber, how they operate, don't have to confirm to regs that are for taxis/ private hire. Despite that, the black cab drivers/ firms are probably just happy because it's less competition, rather than because it will improve safety etc.  Having said that, the idea of  being able to book (and pay for) a hire car, simply by one mobile app, irrespective of what part of London you're in seems entirely logical in this age, so there seems to be a need / market for Uber.

TFL need to work with Uber, to sort out the safety (vetting of drivers etc), rather than just cut off the service. 

[Advantage]

The vetting of drivers issue was down to which agency provided the reports on each individual. TFL subsequently produced a list of agencies that they deemed trustworthy for Uber to use to do background checks. Whether or not any of the previously certified Black Cab drivers had to resubmit their certification due to this new improved agency list is unclear. 

[Barrykearley]

It's amazing how quickly the authorities stamp this out..... let's see if they act as swiftly for extremists and Asian grooming gangs ?

[LF1]

Got to say I I’ve never used Uber and can’t say ever will. All I know is mate of mine gave up decent recruitment job about 10 years ago to fulfil a (weird) childhood ambition to become a black cab driver. It took 3 years of dedication -  riding round London to learn the knowledge on a scooter and examinations to become one along with the expense of renting a cab. Couple of years later he’s having to give up because Uber is killing it for all those but the semi retired. 

[100th_Idiot]

Uber is a toxic company but there are others that offer the same service if you care to look past the hype. I use Panther in Cambridge. Excellent service. App. Car tracking. Driver and car ID. Card payment in the app.

[C8RKH]

It's funny that everyone jumps to Uber's defence as if it is some ethical, clean, holy company. It is clearly not.  Put it this way, would you want to work for Uber given its track record on worker rights etc.

Uber, Deliveroo and all these other "gig" companies are in my opinion systematically exploiting their workers and the communities they purport to serve.  The same old banter is rolled out - innovation, change, freedom of choice, consumer champion!  Bollocks. Total Bollocks. The business model is built on exploitation to deliver a low cost service to the consumer.  The workers are squeezed to breaking point so the companies continue to make a fat profit. It is capitalism at its worse and has frig all to do with anything other than making it's owners rich.

Having used black cabs in London for over 25 years I have never had an issue. Ever.  With Uber, I have had drivers so focused on their satnav, as they don't know where they are going we have literally gone round a block twice!  It was only when I pointed it out the driver 3rd time round he realised!

Ah, the old chestnut of consumer choice. Rolled out by anyone and everyone when they are under attack. Are Uber any cheaper? Well, often they are cheaper than black cabs, but when there is a price surge, hmm, not always!  Also, cheaper than what? Pre-book a proper cab in London and you can often get cheaper or at least the same rates as Uber.  And with the private hires, you can get the price upfront and guaranteed. 

I'm sure there is stuff going on behind the scenes. The black cab drivers do have a huge amount of knowledge and this is useful and it takes them time to pass their tests etc. I can see how they resent Uber.  However, I haven't met an Uber taxi driver yet who is not working 14+ hours a day, at some point, they will lose concentration and bang.

As ever, I don't believe the argument for and against is all out in the public domain.  Change is not always for the better and as for Uber, they have a pretty shady "ethics" base at best, whether that be the views and behaviours of its founders/senior managers, or its attempts to track you and your data via the app.

Maybe they should clean their act up and think about how they launch into new areas.  They have been subject to allegations of bad practices all over the place and have paid local fines in loads of markets.  Surely this is evidence that there is a deep rooted problem with their model and mode of operation.

 How many cities have they now been banned in?  In fact, how many Countries, let alone cities, have they banned in?   London is not the first, and won't be the last and London has not created the trend, it is merely following the trend. Well done London. Hopefully this will force Uber and other companies like it to clean up their acts and operate ethically.

Just my point of view.

[Barrykearley]

13 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

.  However, I haven't met an Uber taxi driver yet who is not working 14+ hours a day, at some point, they will lose concentration and bang.

 

Tories have no issue whatsoever making nurses work 12hour days and doctors doing longer shifts.....

we need a revolution 

just saying 

[LOTUSMAN33]

We don't hav UBER down ere in Devon so can't comment on UK services but when I am out the US working it is a fantastic service, used it day and night and always had really friendly drivers willing to go the extra mile. One lady in DC showed us all the sights and best places to eat and wouldn't have charged extra to the agreed fare had we not insisted. This has happened a few times as well along with great advice on places not to go at night.

Last time I went Seattle we ditched the hire car and just used this service. 

Dave  

[C8RKH]

Bullshit @Barrykearley.  It's not just the Tories as the Lib Dems when in coallition and Labour when in power where quite happy with the status quo over nurses/doctors hours etc. They're all as bad as each other and forget conveniently what they did when in power.

Come on now, you're better than rolling out that shit Barry.

We'll get a revolution when Corbyn becomes prime minister. And when your taxes go through the roof to share your hard earned cash and wealth that you have slaved to create more fairly with those who can't be arsed I'm sure you'll think again about the need for a revolution.

Nurses and doctors and NHS is always an emotive and a bad example to quote.  Dcotors work hard I agree, but then when you look at their total pay over their career compared to others, and look at the gilt edged pensions (the average consultant will get when retiring at 60 an average pension of £43k, index linked for life and a tax free lump sum of £135k).  Compare that with their salaries and let us not forget for many GP's they are partners in their own practices (a bit like lawyers and Accountants etc) and they get a share of the profits as dividends and they get paid for their partnership "slot" when they leave.  Not a bad package really in the round for the hours.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/nhs-pension-scheme-proposal-what-it-means-for-doctors

Nurses on the other hand, get a shabby treatment whether in work or in retirement and theiraverage pension is less than half of doctors (£16-22k pa and a £50k lump sum).

https://www.nursingtimes.net/roles/nurse-managers/the-nhs-pensions-calculator-paints-a-bleak-picture/5038451.article

We should not be using the two as a joint example, bit like saying a shop floor worker and the MD are paid shite for the hours they work!

Back on track and topic. Uber is in my humble opinion a money grabbing, ethically shallow, parasite of a company.  I won't be shedding a tear.

 

[Barrykearley]

I'm just playing devils advocate. All political parties are frankly dire and do not represent anyone other than themselves.... they all need to go.

as for uber - yes it's at the bottom of the gig economy.... I really get that. I'm self employed and choose what, where and when to work. I get no representation at all. 

Uber has been sucked into a clear vacuum to provide a service which folks are seeking - you can argue the toss over the whys etc - but people will vote with their wallets. 

We have far too many "rights" and safety nets - some right some wrong - viva la revolution 

[C8RKH]

Was there really a vacuum for Uber?  Outside of London, and the other main cities, you don't have "Hackney" licences and it is only Hackney licenced drivers you can hail at will from the street corner.  You pay a premium for that convenience.  Everyone else either has to, or prefers to, use local private hire companies. A phone call away and you get picked up where you want and get taken to where you want to go to. many of them have apps too, and include things likes SMS messaging and a link to allow you to track your car etc. I use one such firm in Porstmouth/Havant (Andi cars) every week and they are superb and their drivers (mostly eastern European) are polite, efficient, and generally happy with how they are treated and their conditions. It can be done, a balance can be struck. They have hardly any "english" drivers as apparently they aren't the types of jobs that unemployed english people in that area consider worthy employment.  We need a revolution to fix that!

I would argue that Uber created a revolution, but everyone else woke up quickly and responded and so their USP has been eroded and now, in many markets, the UK especially, they can only survive and deliver the profits they want by squeezing the drivers further.

many private hire drivers are just like you Barry. They work the hours they want on the jobs they want as it is their choice. Uber did not give a shit about putting these people out of a job.

I guess we do agree more closely than our posts might show. However, we have a revolution and we swap one set of self serving leaders for another, does it really get any better?  If we had a dictatorship or a communist state, then I'd be all for revolution. Not sure how having one in the UK would make us better off to be honest.

[Barrykearley]

We need a dictatorship so we can force folks to contribute to society instead of being leaches, deal with criminals properly, legalise drugs and prostitution which will eliminate 75% of all crime, tell the eu to sod off, make big business pay their dues and stop this cycle of money evaporating in some corporate smoke screen

[Advantage]

But then surely a dictatorship would force people into doing jobs against their will. Pretty much the exact the opposite of what's happening with Uber drivers.

[andydclements]

Except,some of the Uber drivers seem to say they are forced. Although it's laughable as they are forced by the need of money.

[Barrykearley]

54 minutes ago, Advantage said:

But then surely a dictatorship would force people into doing jobs against their will. Pretty much the exact the opposite of what's happening with Uber drivers.

My bastard bank, wife and kids force me every day ?

[Barrykearley]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=REwPD77fyPs

[Bibs]

5 hours ago, C8RKH said:

the companies continue to make a fat profit

Net loss of $645m on a $1.75bn turnover in the last quarter. I don't think they've ever made money, like so many tech start ups nowadays. Still valued at $50bn somehow though! 

[Barrykearley]

On at basis - it's the employees exploiting the company and it's shareholders?

[Kimbers]

I used Uber in London and on a reasonable journey saved £12. Just last week here in Norwich I paid £26 to go from my house in Little Melton to my daughetrs house in Brundall. A Journey of 13.8 miles and all on dual carraigeway. I had been drinking and my Daughter had been beaten up quite badly. I would have saved around £5 with Uber.

How do they offer that service? They pay a basic wage and don't have overheads like holidays, sick pay etc as it is zero hours and an almost "Voluntary" service. But people offer to do it! For a little extra! For most Uber drivers its not a full time Job, its their second job! Since when did we become so anal and closed to people just signing up for something to make a little money instead of all this "They must have Holiday and paid sick leave" bullshit? 

As someone who gives up a minimum of 50 hours a month to a voluntary organisation and not get a penny back, no holiday etc, I can honestly say all of that isn't an issue and I was actually looking at something like Uber to earn a little extra. Work the hours I want, no ties or fixed hours and no bull crap contracts.

For me this is purely about Khan throwing his weight around because he has been pressured by the Black cabbies and London is such a mess now that no one can go anywhere or do anything without a Cab.

Lastly Re:Vetting. The figures the BBC produced (struggling to find the article I was reading) show that there is more assaults and complaints for Black Cabbies and Private Hire than Uber drivers "Per Head" so like for like. 

I've been 

[jaldeborgh]

Warning: I’m an Uber fan.  As a Yank, oddly enough the first time I used Uber was in London.  I was visiting my daughter who was doing a term abroad while at University.  I had an early morning flight and was staying at a very small hotel near Hyde Park and needed to get to Kensington Station.  Everything worked perfectly and honestly it was a revelation, I was thrilled.  I don’t use taxis much as I live in the suburbs but I’ve now used Uber 5 or 6 times and never had a bad experience.   Also, every driver I’ve spoken with seems to love the service; they’ve ranged in age from mid-30’s to over 70.  While I fully appreciate the impact on traditional Taxis, I also believe we all need to recognize the potential benefits of technology.  The rating feedback system is a good tool to self-police the quality of the service, also the real-time mapping, knowing the plate number as well as type of car makes connecting easy.  Finely, consumers will vote with their wallets as they have with all other consumer purchases.  That’s why almost everything we buy comes from Asia, it costs less.  Most consumers are driven by two things cost and convince (or easy and cheap). 

Edited October 1, 2017 by jaldeborgh