Evora GT430

[pete757]

7 hours ago, DarrylV8 said:

Hi Paul,

we have now covered 200M since swapping the tailgate.

at road speed (not sure on an open forum we can state speedo reading once back on the straight) there does not appear to be any perceived differences in handling going through corners: 

we have put this down to; downforce/anti lift on front of car, although the car does not feel like it is being pushed into the tarmac at the rear of the car, we assume a big noticeable difference at race track on high speed corners 

we haven’t noticed any difference on acceleration with no drag from no rear wing

If any track day gods or Lotus R&H people on forum can elaborate please do 

Ex pilot here!

This whole 'downforce' thing is a play on theory. It's real, of course! But in the 'real world' of driving our cars on public roads, even on track days, it makes little to no difference! As you are seeing/feeling.

Lift (downforce on an inverted wing is equal to  1/2 density (p) V2 S (V is velocity) S (S is 'wing' area).

An Evora 430 at Vmax speed, circa 196 MPH, it generates an aero downforce of circa 200 kg. So at 100 MPH the downforce is bugger all!,  less than the weight of a set of golf clubs in the boot over the rear axle!

By comparison, F1 Cars are achieving over 4 Tons (4000kg!!!) of downforce... That would be felt! Costs millions to research, develop and build into mega aero on those cars with multi element front and rear wings plus all the other aero stuff on the car! 

Wings/Splitters/Barge boards etc etc look cool, especially in CF! ... but on our Lotus road cars, pretty pointless....

 

SO! 

I would like Lous to publish how much downforce an Evora GT 430 and an Exige 430 develop at 100 mph... (fast corner track day speed).

This would be a great 'real world' figure to know.

[EGTE]

It won't be a lot; maybe 50Kgs using inverse-square.

[C8RKH]

At last we find a good use for teenagers.  Just stick a couple in the boot and feel the difference of an additional 100kg of downforce on those long sweeping corners.  

[geartox]

 

 

 

 

 

[DarrylV8]

13 hours ago, pete757 said:

Ex pilot here!

This whole 'downforce' thing is a play on theory. It's real, of course! But in the 'real world' of driving our cars on public roads, even on track days, it makes little to no difference! As you are seeing/feeling.

Lift (downforce on an inverted wing is equal to  1/2 density (p) V2 S (V is velocity) S (S is 'wing' area).

An Evora 430 at Vmax speed, circa 196 MPH, it generates an aero downforce of circa 200 kg. So at 100 MPH the downforce is bugger all!,  less than the weight of a set of golf clubs in the boot over the rear axle!

By comparison, F1 Cars are achieving over 4 Tons (4000kg!!!) of downforce... That would be felt! Costs millions to research, develop and build into mega aero on those cars with multi element front and rear wings plus all the other aero stuff on the car! 

Wings/Splitters/Barge boards etc etc look cool, especially in CF! ... but on our Lotus road cars, pretty pointless....

 

SO! 

I would like Lous to publish how much downforce an Evora GT 430 and an Exige 430 develop at 100 mph... (fast corner track day speed).

This would be a great 'real world' figure to know.

Whoa and some one told me the GT430 has the same downforce as a 1970’s F1 car,   there was I thinking my driving had improved as I was going round bends and roundabouts quicker than previously in a Lotus and now I know I just wasn’t pushing hard enough before.

I seem to remember Lotus saying the GT430 had the same downforce at 100mph as the 410 Sport had at max; 96kg?

Next car will be a standard basic Elise with no aero!

[pete757]

18 hours ago, EGTE said:

It won't be a lot; maybe 50Kgs using inverse-square.

50 Kgs is a correct number... but that would be at 100 mph! (V squared... double the speed (to 200 mph) so quadruple the lift (= 200kg of downforce)).

That is my point... in the 'real' world, on a GT430 track day corner at 100mph, I doubt 50kg extra weight (downforce) would make any noticeable difference...

 

[Stubox]

250kg of downforce at maximum speed of 190 mph is lotus quote for GT430

The sport is 100kg at 190mph

The f1 car example is lotus 72 f1 car

Let’s us know your thoughts on if it makes a difference in the cars ability after you’ve driven it. 

Personally a car generating even 50kg of downforce is rather handy to have on track than not.

 

[EGTE]

Also, is the 50Kgs of down-force related to the amount of lift from the rest of the car?

i.e. the sum downforce of 50Kgs could be something like

                               300Kgs of body lift- 350 Kgs of wing-force,

which would make a hell of a difference.

[tim_marra]

IIRC the S1 Evora is designed for zero lift?

[pete757]

Zero lift is great! 😎

 Eg, in fast jets, you can push to get zero lift and as such go 'ballistic'! Fab... no lift, no drag, just keep going! 👍

[Trevsked]

I can say without fear of factual contradiction that there is a marked difference in the GT430 as you pass through 110-120mph. The cars just stabilises, and a new confidence is installed to the drivers seat. My Evora GTS was similar but at a lower speed, probably 90-100mph, prior to these two cars I can say I didn’t notice aero effect on my V6 Cup which I think produced about 60kg at 120mph, May have that figure wrong though.

 

Trevor.

[Ccd]

NedaSay:

Where did you get this info on North America.  I checked the US Lotus website for a press release and there was none.  Much of what you say makes sense if you are moving Lotus upmarket to compete with the likes of Ferrari.  You have the GT 430 slotted below $150,000, then one of the new models slots in the $150-200K range and perhaps a hypercar in excess of $200K.  One thing I’ve noticed is that there are plenty of 2 door 2 seat supercars in the $150-200K range, but few if any 4 door 4 passenger supercars in that range.

[DarrylV8]

6 hours ago, pete757 said:

50 Kgs is a correct number... but that would be at 100 mph! (V squared... double the speed (to 200 mph) so quadruple the lift (= 200kg of downforce)).

That is my point... in the 'real' world, on a GT430 track day corner at 100mph, I doubt 50kg extra weight (downforce) would make any noticeable difference...

 

The GT430 is 250kgs down force at 190mph

[NedaSay]

4 hours ago, Ccd said:

NedaSay:

Where did you get this info on North America.  I checked the US Lotus website for a press release and there was none.  Much of what you say makes sense if you are moving Lotus upmarket to compete with the likes of Ferrari.  You have the GT 430 slotted below $150,000, then one of the new models slots in the $150-200K range and perhaps a hypercar in excess of $200K.  One thing I’ve noticed is that there are plenty of 2 door 2 seat supercars in the $150-200K range, but few if any 4 door 4 passenger supercars in that range.

There was a dealer meet recently and a dealer on Lotustalk did leak few bits of info... New product portfolio was introduced, and new msrp price range was presented, So the US Should get their 430 presented close to xmas with deliveries in the spring. Again it was a dealer leak nothing official yet.

[pete757]

4 hours ago, DarrylV8 said:

The GT430 is 250kgs down force at 190mph

OK... so that's about 64.0kg of downforce at 100mph then! 😉

Must take my wife out with me on track days from now on... in the boot!! 😊

 

[pete757]

9 hours ago, Trevsked said:

I can say without fear of factual contradiction that there is a marked difference in the GT430 as you pass through 110-120mph. The cars just stabilises, and a new confidence is installed to the drivers seat. My Evora GTS was similar but at a lower speed, probably 90-100mph, prior to these two cars I can say I didn’t notice aero effect on my V6 Cup which I think produced about 60kg at 120mph, May have that figure wrong though.

 

Trevor.

Interesting observation...

But let's not forget the high spec Ohlin TTX dampers fitted to the GT430... great dampers make a huge difference. 

And of course, some downforce, even a miserly 60kg, is much better than some early Audi TT style 'lift'.

[DarrylV8]

5 hours ago, pete757 said:

OK... so that's about 64.0kg of downforce at 100mph then! 😉

Must take my wife out with me on track days from now on... in the boot!! 😊

 

Having reread the GT430 brochure Lotus quote 64kgs of downforce at 90mph

[DarrylV8]

19 minutes ago, DarrylV8 said:

Having reread the GT430 brochure Lotus quote 64kgs of downforce at 90mph although I’m not sure it’s all at the rear?

Your reference to the dampers in reply to Trevor might well be reasoning to increased level of grip through corners and coupled with the increased downforce certainly allows me to make greater use of the available power and yes a very satisfying drive WITH a very smug smile when getting out of the car each time!

[pete757]

Envious mate! Very! 

How about another photo then! 😎

[Trevsked]

The 430 Sport with Ohlins simply wont feel as planted at 120 as the GT430, that’s the difference in downforce.

 

Trevor.

[EGTE]

21 hours ago, pete757 said:

Zero lift is great! 😎

 Eg, in fast jets, you can push to get zero lift and as such go 'ballistic'! Fab... no lift, no drag, just keep going! 👍

The bravest way to run away, too (max acceleration) 

[pete757]

3 hours ago, EGTE said:

The bravest way to run away, too (max acceleration) 

Exactly!

 

[pete757]

Apologies for the thread 'drift'...

[DarrylV8]

GT430 with tailgate of Sport

[Bravo73]

Looks lovely. Out of interest, did you hang onto your original bootlid/spoiler?