Evora market watch, for discussion and to help those searching!

[C8RKH]

£3k to £7k is the spread I've observed from looking, watching and hearing. I think B&C at £4k is a good mark to observe.

[CocoPops]

Then if you're wanting to sell your car to a dealer for cash then expect a very low price.

Other options are sell privately, or pay commission and sell it via a dealer as a "Sale or Return". That way the buyer gets confidence of buying from dealer, can use their finance facilities etc and you don't need to worry about insurance etc

[Gravel]

Thanks - I'm sure that's useful info for a lot of folk!

[Chris J]

1 hour ago, CocoPops said:

B&C want £4K in every car!

When I bought my Evora from B&C I traded in an Elise for £15k, they put it up for £19k. I had earlier offered the Elise for sale to a couple of independent dealers and been offered in the £13k to £14k ball park. Whether they would have put it up for sale for less than B&C I don't know.

[DJW]

Done SOR on 3 cars with Silverstone and been happy with end results. 

[Hedgehogfromhell]

Aimee @ Silverstone bought my Focus RS Mk2 for £16000 and put it up for £19000 which is about right for what is to be expected.  

[Colin G]

I never understand it when people are shocked at dealer margins, especially Lotus dealers who aren't exactly selling a lot of cars per week. How do you think they pay for showrooms/staff/car prep/warranties etc, etc, etc? We'd all love to get the same price that they do for our cars, but the fact is that the majority of people don't even contemplate buying expensive cars privately as they want the peace of mind a dealer (should) represent.

[C8RKH]

I'm not shocked and totally agree with you Colin.  These will be the same people who then buy the car and expect the dealer to move heaven and earth to fix every and any minor defect once they've bought it etc.  I don't think the margin they are making is outrageous for the risk they are they taking in selling the car on, and also, due to potentially tying the capital up, servicing, repairs etc.  

If you take the focus RS above, that's an 18.75% markup - NOT PROFIT - but mark-up. They then need to market it, clean it, sort out any items that need looking at etc. and stand by the car when someone buys it and pay the sale person commission etc. So you could easily see a net margin on that basis as low as 6% or so, so around £960. Hardly a rip-off really.

[Neal H]

1 hour ago, C8RKH said:

If you take the focus RS above, that's an 18.75% markup - NOT PROFIT - but mark-up. They then need to market it, clean it, sort out any items that need looking at etc. and stand by the car when someone buys it and pay the sale person commission etc. So you could easily see a net margin on that basis as low as 6% or so, so around £960. Hardly a rip-off really.

And pay over 20% VAT to HMRC on that mark up, and add the cost of a warranty. The list goes on...

[C8RKH]

Indeed @Neal H. Who in their right mind would own a car showroon business?

 

[CocoPops]

Interesting, the first "private sale" I've seen of a 400:

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/lotus/evora/lotus-evora-122-2-evora-400----------------2015/6189057?v=c

£61,000.

6,500 miles and 1 year old (according to advert). Lotus + Current Owner, so a 2 owner car. 2yrs of warranty left.

[C8RKH]

Swapping it for a Ferrari 488 GTB no less!  Wow, that's great that someone who can afford a 488 chose to buy and run an Evora. I know the 488 will be special but I bet it doesn't drive as good as the Evora, but maybe, the fact that the seats won't squeak will make up for the poorer driving experience!

 

[Barrykearley]

You bad bad man @C8RKH. Don't mention the seats again!! Simply refer to them as a choir of mice 

[C8RKH]

Haha - well, let's hope the 488 seats wear better than the 458 one below - the mice weren't singing in this seat, they were squatting in it!

As an aside, just look at the size of that seat - you can see the weight in that thing. in fact, look at the whole interior - it just looks very very heavy. Funny, since owning a Lotus I've become conscious of weight, and the light is right approach resonates, and stuff like this I would never have even thought about before - but jeez, that interior must weigh a ton - it's a big fat bloated man of an interior and whilst the 488 looks hugely special from the outside, from the inside it just looks, well, fat!  Porsche interiors look the same. It's all about the show rather than the go it seems and for that reason, I'll stick with lotus.

[gregs24]

9 hours ago, C8RKH said:

Haha - well, let's hope the 488 seats wear better than the 458 one below - the mice weren't singing in this seat, they were squatting in it!

As an aside, just look at the size of that seat - you can see the weight in that thing. in fact, look at the whole interior - it just looks very very heavy. Funny, since owning a Lotus I've become conscious of weight, and the light is right approach resonates, and stuff like this I would never have even thought about before - but jeez, that interior must weigh a ton - it's a big fat bloated man of an interior and whilst the 488 looks hugely special from the outside, from the inside it just looks, well, fat!  Porsche interiors look the same. It's all about the show rather than the go it seems and for that reason, I'll stick with lotus.

True but it isn't exactly wanting for power so a few extra kg isn't going to hurt that much. It only has a kerb weight just over 100kg more than the Evora and is a considerably bigger car.

[C8RKH]

It's also over twice the price so that means they can and do use exotic materials in the manufacturing to keep the weight down - still does not mean it does not look bloated on the inside.....

I think from the outside it looks a million dollars so I don't hate it at all, just think it would look better a little leaner on the inside. That's all.

[NeilMick]

I know nobody can predict the future but what are peoples thoughts on depreciation per year for 2014/2015 sports racers around the £45k-£50k mark? With the 400 coming out do you think they are still likely to drop a bit?

[C8RKH]

Hi Neil, Iooking at prices over the last 12 months I'd say not a lot!

The cheapest non dealer 400 is still a shade over £60k and apart  from the early dealer test  cars that sold for mid £60's to high £60's the 400 is not exactly throwing value off quickly.

The 50:50 deal makes the trade in to a 400 attractive but that's not available on non new cars I believe so again, little downward pressure.

For what it is worth I'd plan on minimal drops - mileage and condition will be the key to future price with higher mileage cars losing a little more but not falling off.

The perception of many, which i personally believe is wrong and i am biased here, is that you should only buy a late  model SR, so that will help the prices stay strong.

Of course, what the car will retail for, versus what you will get for it are two different things. as we discussed before on this thread iirc was allow £3-4k for sale or return from a dealer and up to £5k less for a private or px sale - so dealer selling a late car at £45k, you will get £40 when you spin it on in a year as a rough guideline.

Just my tuppence worth, but my crystal ball has cracks and is not infallible! 

Happy hunting

 

[RudeDog]

Are SR cars moving when they are priced at £45-50k?  I see a fair few in the classifieds that appear to have been up for sale for a long time.  With 400's almost down at £60k now, to me it feels crazy to put £50k in to an SR because in another 12-months, I think the 400's will be about that price meaning the SR's are going to shift down to the £35-40k mark.  When you then take off the dealer's required margin, you'll be trading your SR in at £5k less meaning that you'd have lost around £15k in a year.  The cheap finance package on the 400's is only going to mean there'll be even more availability of the premium product in 12-months time so my guesstimates about the SR's could prove to be more extreme than I'm currently thinking.

Is this why the market seems to be pretty slow at the moment?  I've been looking every day or so at three sets of classifieds but it's the same stock I keep seeing...

[Stuno1]

It depends if the 400's get to a point and stop. There is a clear margin between NA and s, pre 2012 and post 2012 Elise to excige etc. If the 400 continued to depreciate this will clearly push down sr prices. I wonder if the sr will settle at 40 and the 400 at 50-55k. Time will tell. Also the manual is the more popular sr variant (I believe) and most for sale are automatic. Time will tell. 

[NeilMick]

5 hours ago, RudeDog said:

Are SR cars moving when they are priced at £45-50k?  I see a fair few in the classifieds that appear to have been up for sale for a long time.  With 400's almost down at £60k now, to me it feels crazy to put £50k in to an SR because in another 12-months, I think the 400's will be about that price meaning the SR's are going to shift down to the £35-40k mark.  When you then take off the dealer's required margin, you'll be trading your SR in at £5k less meaning that you'd have lost around £15k in a year.  The cheap finance package on the 400's is only going to mean there'll be even more availability of the premium product in 12-months time so my guesstimates about the SR's could prove to be more extreme than I'm currently thinking.

Is this why the market seems to be pretty slow at the moment?  I've been looking every day or so at three sets of classifieds but it's the same stock I keep seeing...

In order for a 400 to be £50k in 12 months then they are going to have to lose about £1k per month based on current prices, I've been looking in the classifieds and they aren't really going down that fast. There have been a few SR's up in the 45k-50k mark which have sold over the last couple of months.

I'm just trying to work out which is the safest place to put money depreciation wise if overall cost isn't really the problem.

M11 Evora S - £35k

MY12-15 Evora S SR - £45-50k

Evora 400 - £60-65k

 

[RudeDog]

There are currently eight 400's advertised on Pistonheads for less than £65k.  Theose were typically around £80k when spec'd as new and the oldest is about a year old.  Therefore the depreciation curve is definitely heading in the direction I indicated.

Your question about the safest place is one I am also figuring out the answer to.  The simple truth is that it's not in an Evora but if it has to go into an Evora, I am leaning towards £35k for an S, hopefully MY12.

Edited September 14, 2016 by RudeDog

[superdavelotus]

Hi Andrew,

I agree with your figures but the bottom of the rung NA's have stayed at £30K for the past few years. Over the last 2 years, the prices have actually gone up a tad. So I think they've pretty much bottomed out at very late 20's to early 30's. Good news for current owners in my opinion.

 

[C8RKH]

41 minutes ago, RudeDog said:

There are currently eight 400's advertised on Pistonheads for less than £65k.  Theose were typically around £80k when spec'd as new and the oldest is about a year old.  Therefore the depreciation curve is definitely heading in the direction I indicated.

Your question about the safest place is one I am also figuring out the answer to.  The simple truth is that it's not in an Evora but if it has to go into an Evora, I am leaning towards £35k for an S, hopefully MY12.

I don't buy this re the trajectory to be honest - every new car (apart from Porsche GT's) loses 15-20% when driven out the showroom. So at £80k new that's £16k so circa low £60k's for a nearly new car though I bet many people actually paid low £70k so not bad at all. However, what happens after that is different for every car based on desirability, demand, supply etc and what we have seen with the Evora is that the price fall curve is slower and less dramatic than many other cars.

I put £30k into a 2010 NA that I love 18 months ago and a dealer offered me £28k recently without even blinking. I'm happy with where my money is right now

[Evo400]

The 2014 white (with aftermarket exhaust etc) manual Evora S SR was available for £40k last week privately (and was on the market for months albeit at an initially higher price) .   Not sure if it sold privately or whether the seller simply traded it in for less. 

S SR prices are really £40k-£45k.

400s have sold for under £60k at dealers so the private one at £61k is a bit expensive. 

Edited September 14, 2016 by Evo400