JLR on shutdown

[Barrykearley]

So it would seem they are shutting production for a short period.

citing sales into China as a contributing factor. So does this mean all the huff and puff from the execs there about brexit is utter pishe? Maybe if they could build cars that didn’t fall apart and they actually dealt with warranty issues they wouldn’t be seeing a sale decline.

more smoke and mirrors. Has it really changed since red robbo

[NedaSay]

JLR seems to be over exposed in China and it seems the TATA group is also in a bit of a tight spot:

 https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/markets/stocks/news/99-of-stocks-reel-under-pressure-but-rupee-helps-tatas-survive-market-blues/articleshow/66068668.cms

With tata's own car brand all but profitable possibly due to the almost impossibility to bridge the gap between JLR luxobarges and SUVs and Tata Motors range of products, just as Lotus could not use anything proton, neither JLR nor Tata Motors have been able to generate synergies it seems, with just one SUV still in the pipeline sharing platform, when TATA acquired JLR  over 10 years ago. It goes to show the feat achieved by Lotus new owner since they acquired Volvo.

It also potentially shows the gap existing between the Indian market and the Chinese market. JLR should have been able to bring their cost structure down but with heavy investment in electrification and perceived quality problems still very much a thing, global sales are not that stellar. Now bring uncertainty caused by a no deal and you have a good reason to idle the factory don't you think, especially with the US /China trade war looming. 

[PaulCP]

The South Korean government has just told JLR to issue a recall on 16,000 vehicles: XJ, XF, RR, RRS and D4. The only connection I know of is they all come with the V6 diesel. The major news agencies haven't reported the story since it’s not Brexit related, but it is definitely out there. 

http://www.thestandard.com.hk/breaking-new...&sid=2

"Jaguar Land Rover Korea will voluntarily recall 16,022 vehicles to repair faulty parts, the transport ministry said today. 

The ministry said the Indian-owned British carmaker's recall plan will start on October 29 and cover five different models that will be checked by mechanics, the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure and Transport said in a statement, Yonhap reports. 

The five models -- the Jaguar XF sedan, Jaguar XJ sedan, Discovery 4, Range Rover and Range Rover Sports sport utility vehicles -- have been found to have faulty diesel engine crankshafts that could catch fire and cause power shutdowns while the car is being driven, the statement said."

There have been particular problems in the UK with crankshaft failures on 3 year old + RRS V6 diesels, failures that JLR do not cover under there own “approved warranty” since the small print in this warranty excudes failures from known problems.

Situation in the UK will remain F*** You Britain we don’t care about our UK customers any more.......

[auRouge]

2 hours ago, NedaSay said:

Now bring uncertainty caused by a no deal and you have a good reason to idle the factory don't you think, especially with the US /China trade war looming. 

This.

JLR also specifically pointing to worldwide drop in demand for diesel. 

3 day week for the plants!! Ouch.

https://www.ft.com/content/fe5c7116-ba8c-11e8-8274-55b72926558f

New car sales down 20% this quarter. Just in time principle has to react. Until there’s clarity all the manufacturers are slowing. 4 day weeks etc... smaller supply chain local companies will be the next to slow down. 

So for a JLR worker,,, potentially the cost of living is up (eg. construction costs up 6%, petrol etc etc ), your pay is down due to 3 day week and your employer has to prepare for no-deal Brexit. 

@PaulCP and a massive recall program!!!

Oh Dear😑

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

I thought workers' pay was not affected yet? In which case they're all currently getting full pay for working 3 days per week, with a fully-paid 2 week holiday thrown in to boot. Result. They must have some money in the bank to manage that.

[auRouge]

Yes on full pay but seriously worrying. What about pension contributions, overtime etc to make ends meet. Hardly a result if you then get a redundancy call in the new year! The psychology is also damaging. Some will be worried about the future... knock on to the family is horrible. 

How long can they do this? Let’s hope TM strikes a deal soon.

[C8RKH]

@auRouge you've directly contradicted yourself there in two posts - they are either on full pay or not. My understand is they are.

Als US / China trade war is an opportunity surely for a non US car maker like Tata and JLR?

And finally how does Brexit affect UK car sales to China negatively especially when China reduced car import tariffs by 10% on July 1st to encourage more international trade?

I'm confused. This all seems to make Brexit a huge opportunity for UK cars into China to me especially given tge continued weakness of the pound.

I must be silly to not see the Brexit catastrophe here.  😂🤣😂🤣

[silverfrost]

Very sad news   China was always going to affect the site at some stage due to nearly 80 percent of the 4x4s going to that market,  Hopefully things pick up soon and hope the lads there get through the rough patch safely .

[NedaSay]

4 hours ago, C8RKH said:

@auRouge you've directly contradicted yourself there in two posts - they are either on full pay or not. My understand is they are.

Als US / China trade war is an opportunity surely for a non US car maker like Tata and JLR?

And finally how does Brexit affect UK car sales to China negatively especially when China reduced car import tariffs by 10% on July 1st to encourage more international trade?

I'm confused. This all seems to make Brexit a huge opportunity for UK cars into China to me especially given tge continued weakness of the pound.

I must be silly to not see the Brexit catastrophe here.  😂🤣😂🤣

Brexit would be an interesting opportunity if all the components were sourced in the UK but they are not, so the cost of one or two component and/or the extra delay at the border that they will generate may disrupt your supply chain and bring cost up.

For a car manufacturer or any industrial higher ups a change in circumstances is a thing that may happen, what's crippling is the uncertainty around this change of circumstances the current Brexit limbo is the perfect storm. 

When it comes to JLR they co own a factory in China with Chery, said factory produces or is able to produce most JLR products for the Chinese and Asian market... This factory has just seen some of 16000 vehicles they produced recalled, which would indicate a problem either at the factory or in the supply chain? 

Also when it comes to investment JLR has spent a "small wad" of cash developing a new line of "Ingenium" engines with a substantial amount of goodwill going toward the diesel version of said engine. Well this investment is now pretty much nullified by the diesel crack... They had seen it coming, but it is still going to hurt the bottom line, this is an investment they won't be able to recoup in Europe or in China and I don't think India or the Asean market will help either.

Now as said before JLR is owned by Tata which is troubled right now, there have been rumours of Tata looking at offloading JLR, rumours since put to rest as JLR situation is not that dire and actually Jaguar is in a great shape with a full revamp of the product line coming.

Hopefully the idling won't last too much longer, right now everybody is getting full pay but if it lingers on the bean counters will have to make the hard calls.

 

Good thing this is not a source of concern for Lotus as of now. our dear company is so small that I doubt it will be affected significantly by the current situation. Lotus has no diesel, they are mostly understaffed, their production is limited... Yes they are going to  be potentially hampered by components sourced from the continent but the sheer difference in scale makes it less damaging in my mind and with an SUV that could be produced in China or Continental Europe ... they should be dandy.

[C8RKH]

Re JLR - it's sad times yes. But they are also culpable themselves as the quality of their products has deteriorated and the customer service from dealers is often bloody awful. Given the competition they have in the segments they operate in (all the Germans, luxury Asians, Volvo etc.) anything sub standard in terms of quality and service will hurt them as a volume manufacturer. There are just too many other options that people can easily step into at the same money or cheaper for better quality.

Range Rovers still sell on image, as do many Jaguars.

I had a previous gen (all aloominum) Jag XJ that I took to 110k miles from 6 months old and it was a bloody brilliant car. Not sure the current range are anywhere near as good built etc.

 

[auRouge]

7 hours ago, C8RKH said:

@auRouge they are either on full pay or not. I must be silly to not see the Brexit catastrophe here.  

Should have edited but was busy. Yes the posts contradict. 

What I meant to get across (in my morning rant) was we’re not privy to the deals t’s and c’s / what happens next. To illustrate, when I left my previous employment I was on a “reference Full Pay” salary as far as the general public was concerned. This helped employees not default contractually on mortgages and the like, my actual take home salary was less.

Won’t bore you any further! (interestingly at the time not allowed to discuss “full pay” in public social media either so as not to spook investors... funny that!!🤬 I quit and joined a stable employer tout suite!).

If they’re down to 3 days and completely unaffected great... I sincerely hope this to be the case, the sceptic in me doesn’t believe it for one second. 

Brexit contributed to ending the oldest name in British aviation by sterling devaluation which made its fuel bill go up by millions over night... 

Safe to say I’m no fan of Brexit as it put my friends and their families into the 💩

[pete]

1 hour ago, auRouge said:

 

Won’t bore you any further! (interestingly at the time not allowed to discuss “full pay” in public social media either so as not to spook investors... funny that!!🤬

Brexit contributed to ending the oldest name in British aviation by sterling devaluation which made its fuel bill go up by millions over night... 

Safe to say I’m no fan of Brexit as it put my friends and their families into the 💩

Presumably Monarch airlines who had been in trouble since 2009 quite a while before brexit

[100th_Idiot]

Not convinced it is really China or Brexit related. Lots of manufacturers stuffed the channels with product ahead of new emissions regulations. Hence the current drop in sales and factory slow down. The channel needs to be corrected.

[C8RKH]

4 minutes ago, pete said:

Presumably Monarch airlines who had been in trouble since 2009 quite a while before brexit

Oh you fool. You idiot. EVERYTHING is the fault of Brexit. Just get with it.

Years of piss poor efficiency, under performance, quality issues, lack of customer service etc is not one jot to blame.

Ryanair next and tgat will all be down to Brexit.

Just watch.

Complete and utter shite of course but apparently some people still believe the earth is flat too.

[PaulCP]

3 hours ago, C8RKH said:

Re JLR - it's sad times yes. But they are also culpable themselves as the quality of their products has deteriorated and the customer service from dealers is often bloody awful. Given the competition they have in the segments they operate in (all the Germans, luxury Asians, Volvo etc.) anything sub standard in terms of quality and service will hurt them as a volume manufacturer. There are just too many other options that people can easily step into at the same money or cheaper for better quality.

Range Rovers still sell on image, as do many Jaguars.

I had a previous gen (all aloominum) Jag XJ that I took to 110k miles from 6 months old and it was a bloody brilliant car. Not sure the current range are anywhere near as good built etc.

 

As an ex JLR customer of 4 models over the years all I can say is that you are spot on Andy. 

They need to look at the mirror and see the reflection rather than continuously looking through the mirror for excuses.

The LR products particularly have many design errors which they refuse to accept. Crankshaft issues on the V6 diesels in the RRS to oil dilution problems on the transverse mounted 2.0 Diesel Ingenium engines due to, in their words on an internal document, “architectural and design issues” whereby they continually try to cover the problem up by citing “the problem is your driving style sir”

I learned a lot about JLR when eventually successfully rejecting a 15 month old vehicle late last year. I won’t go into all of the details here but in the end I won the case based upon “vehicle not as described, not fit for purpose” despite LR’s attempts to deny all knowledge of general issues affecting some of the brands products in the hope that I would eventually “go away”

The outcome was full refund less an agreed amount of 35p/mile for the distance driven and a commitment from me never to entertain their products ever again.

The cynic in me says that the reported shut down is merely to try to reduce the amount of stock cars out there so that their dealers can continue the premise of “we can sell every car that is made.”

As one ex dealer employee said to me last year, “they need to realise that they cannot continue to turn out mediocre overpriced products.”

Dr Speth likes to shout “its all about Brexit.” He should now be the first casualty on Tata’s list.

[auRouge]

@C8RKH 

contributed not EVERYTHING as a result of Brexit. 

@pete yes not the best situation after the Global Financial Crisis but you don’t survive 48 years without some clout or talent. They had new owners and cash. We’ll never know. Bit smoke and mirrors tbh. I didn’t buy into it so voted with my feet before the new owners took over. 

BoT:-

My brother had a 4.0l XJ8 back in 2000, it was a proper car. Ford era. Lovely thing, nothing ever went wrong, it just waffted around with just enough torque to make you feel special. Test drove an F Pace a year or so ago thinking that would be a comfy family wagon... Its not a Jag. No quality interior and the engine just felt generic and a bit naff.

Sat in the back of a new S Class Merc today... it’s interior was equally cheap! Rubbish leather, poor plastics, shiny glare of the dash etc etc. What the hells going on with “luxury” motoring these days? 

 

[pete]

Thought the e class was stunning inside though

[Barrykearley]

43 minutes ago, PaulCP said:

They need to look at the mirror and see the reflection rather than continuously looking through the mirror for excuses.

Dr Speth likes to shout “its all about Brexit.” He should now be the first casualty on Tata’s list.

Couldn’t phrase any of that better myself. 

Utterly fed up of the utter crap that these highly paid executives spout, along with political elite and corporate spin.

it needs to stop - viva la revolution 

[scotty435]

2 hours ago, C8RKH said:

Oh you fool. You idiot. EVERYTHING is the fault of Brexit. Just get with it.

Years of piss poor efficiency, under performance, quality issues, lack of customer service etc is not one jot to blame.

Ryanair next and tgat will all be down to Brexit.

Just watch.

Complete and utter shite of course but apparently some people still believe the earth is flat too.

Fool, idiot, never heard anything so rude on this forum, sad day.

[Barrykearley]

3 hours ago, C8RKH said:

Complete and utter shite of course but apparently some people still believe the earth is flat too.

The 2+0 is light - but if the earth wasn’t flat - it’d simply fall off.

[C8RKH]

8 hours ago, scotty435 said:

Fool, idiot, never heard anything so rude on this forum, sad day.

Oh for crying out loud anyone else would have read my post as the piss take it was meant to be.  The person I quoted even "liked it".

It's a sad day when you can no longer go on a forum for adults and take the piss whilst NOT targeting hate or abuse at an individual.

[Barrykearley]

Pah ^ bloody Scots 🤭

[auRouge]

8 hours ago, C8RKH said:

It's a sad day when you can no longer go on a forum for adults and take the piss whilst NOT targeting hate or abuse at an individual.

OBJECTION, argumentative! 😂

[Barrykearley]

Ignore him - his idol he models himself on is Nicola sturgeon....

[Bravo73]

Oi Bazza - not everyone who lives in Scotland is Scottish.