Cup 430 Club

[Troyboy]

21 minutes ago, theplanner said:

I never stated that the brand has no history, Motorsport credentials nor a non drivers car, quite the opposite.  My comments are merely squared at the facts. Like it or not, our cars are a parts bin special, but pretty damn special one for that matter and I enjoy driving every moment of it.  Not prefect but fun and I hv owned far better engineered cars but not necessarily more fun. 
 

back on topic of value, I’m sorry but u don’t get it  as the us market doesn’t just influence high end cars. Just look at the value of jdm’s in the few years, cars that were once cheaper than our cars r now worth more.  964 were once cheap and hv gone up in value significantly.  All these examples are value propped up by the us market and others then follow suit.  If exiges were sold in the us, it’s prices may well hv been propped up too because last of the true “analogue” and “manual” cars which the us market seem to rave about. I totally agree with ur pt about the icon in the British eyes, but the market is too niche and small to influence international trends …. Another example is holdens in Australia, some once relative cheap bogan rides have sold for more than brand new Ferraris, but this price will not be fetched outside of Australia cos the market is too niche and small. 

I didn't say that you said the brand had no history. You've lost me there. Excuse my older age theplanner but I don't get abbreviations. 

As for the American influence on car prices I would just say Ford RS.

[Toqcars]

36 minutes ago, BatMobile said:

Jdm went crazy because the US couldn’t have them so when 25yrs rolled by they went mental. R34 being the prime example 

So be ready for the 2037… they will get all of the v6 exiges we have here 😎

[theplanner]

Yes agree but IF and only IF the US market sees the light in Exiges.  Even if they start driving up the prices of S1 and S2 that could have a positive impact on S3 prices.  

Who could have foresaw the astronomical rise of the R34's and arguably not even that great a car to drive (I can think of other much nicer/ better (?) drivers cars that have not seen the same astronomic rise in price e.g. E46 M3). So I still dun understand the appeal of the R34 other than the nostalgia from Fast and Furious...LOL. Oh Well each to its own I guess hence better to buy these cars to drive and forget values, and if the market is on our side, then it is a bonus

@Troyboy all good mate, just sharing my knowledge of the car market, but can't say neither of us is right or wrong  but always good to hear from different perspectives. 

[Troyboy]

9 hours ago, theplanner said:

Yes agree but IF and only IF the US market sees the light in Exiges.  Even if they start driving up the prices of S1 and S2 that could have a positive impact on S3 prices.  

Who could have foresaw the astronomical rise of the R34's and arguably not even that great a car to drive (I can think of other much nicer/ better (?) drivers cars that have not seen the same astronomic rise in price e.g. E46 M3). So I still dun understand the appeal of the R34 other than the nostalgia from Fast and Furious...LOL. Oh Well each to its own I guess hence better to buy these cars to drive and forget values, and if the market is on our side, then it is a bonus

@Troyboy all good mate, just sharing my knowledge of the car market, but can't say neither of us is right or wrong  but always good to hear from different perspectives. 

Fair dinkum 😉

[jimichanga]

R34 is epic drive. It’s like an over engineered M3 with 2 turbos trick 4wd to put big power down efficiently and a load more track proven performance tech. Very famous for its tunability obviously so king of the modded ricer thing which is a car culture all of itself. The RB straight six was proper race engineered it took big lift in power without any mods needed and the rest of the car was up to it too. US market influence is big picture stuff but lots happening outside of their influence. Ford RS already mentioned massive UK following, Mk1 and 2 Escorts at prices few outside that world understand. RS500 has been Ferrari money for years and most owners wouldn’t swap theirs for any Italian exotic.

Denial and last chance to by, enjoy while you can is supporting values at the moment. Very strong prices for early Elise Cups, quite a few have sold for more than they would have paid for a few years ago. Good for them at least the Elise is a unique driving experience. Japan you’d think would be obvious market for used rhd Exige and Elise but they have a weird thing for lhd cars and old cars get very expensive to keep on the road, imagine an MOT test that got more thorough and harder to pass every year for some idea. That’s why we take so many of their older rice burners and Integrales over here. Lots of love still for combustion cars but the clock is ticking. There will be quite a few Exiges as garden ornaments in 20 years time!

[Bispal]

Just catching up with some recent comments.

• I  think north America has an imperceptible impact in used Exige values. They are niche cars with a niche audience which is why they never sold many and this will probably continue to be the case.
• If the Lotus was not a parts bin special then their price would be astronomical.  You just need to look at low volume 'bespoke' manufactures like GMA / Pagani /Koenigsegg to see this.  Even McLaren use a Nissan engine block , Mitsubishi turbos, Parrot infotainment and many other borrowed bits.  using other manufacturers parts has no impact on used  Exige values
• Most people still don't get Lotus, even car enthusiasts and supercar owners.  They spend £250k on a Lambo (Audi), Ferrari or McLaren and still say Lotus are far too expensive for what they are, without even having driven one.  This is why the market place will remain exceedingly niche.  Lotus has no appeal to the Rolex collecting fraternity and never will and its that inherent but intangible perceived cachet that sky rockets values and the Exige does not have this.

Personally future values mean nothing to me.  I have no intention of selling my 430, its paid for so its staying with me for as long as I am able to use it.  I think many owners feel the same so this will make them rare and being the peak Exige the most desirable to that very small market, which I think will keep values high for low mileage good condition examples.  But these cars are bought to be driven and not collected so I personally don't think they will appreciate as they will be driven. " For the drivers' sums it up perfectly.......

[mayak]

The day I cannot afford organic or synthetic petrol anymore, I will consider swapping the engine with an electric one. Maybe battery packs are lighter and more energy dense by then too.

Something along these lines:
https://www.manufakturmarton.ch/en/eporsche-968/

[Troyboy]

4 hours ago, Bispal said:

Just catching up with some recent comments.

• I  think north America has an imperceptible impact in used Exige values. They are niche cars with a niche audience which is why they never sold many and this will probably continue to be the case.
• If the Lotus was not a parts bin special then their price would be astronomical.  You just need to look at low volume 'bespoke' manufactures like GMA / Pagani /Koenigsegg to see this.  Even McLaren use a Nissan engine block , Mitsubishi turbos, Parrot infotainment and many other borrowed bits.  using other manufacturers parts has no impact on used  Exige values
• Most people still don't get Lotus, even car enthusiasts and supercar owners.  They spend £250k on a Lambo (Audi), Ferrari or McLaren and still say Lotus are far too expensive for what they are, without even having driven one.  This is why the market place will remain exceedingly niche.  Lotus has no appeal to the Rolex collecting fraternity and never will and its that inherent but intangible perceived cachet that sky rockets values and the Exige does not have this.

Personally future values mean nothing to me.  I have no intention of selling my 430, its paid for so its staying with me for as long as I am able to use it.  I think many owners feel the same so this will make them rare and being the peak Exige the most desirable to that very small market, which I think will keep values high for low mileage good condition examples.  But these cars are bought to be driven and not collected so I personally don't think they will appreciate as they will be driven. " For the drivers' sums it up perfectly.......

Yours is, imo, the nicest Exige 430 Cup. It just ticks all of my boxes twice.

[Bispal]

Cheers 🙂

 

 

[Troyboy]

I don't know if anyone is interested. I had a look at the grey 430 Cup with candy red wheels at JCT600 yesterday.  Very nice car indeed. The pictures really don't do it justice. I spent about half an hour in the showroom looking at the stock. No one approached me at all. That wouldn't have happened a couple of years ago. 

[C8RKH]

All this crap re parts bin - every Ferrari built in the 1970's to early noughties used many a part from the "parts bin" - not everything was "bespoke"! In fact for most "sports cars" the use of "parts bin" or "group" parts has been common for a number of decades has it not?

Ever since I became a Lotus owner and joined Forums like this I have always marvelled at how many people seem to just love the opportunity to talk the cars that lotus produce - whether that is through "parts bin" comments, talking the prices down, general bitchin' and whinin' etc.  At least on Seloc most of them admit to have a Porsche that they now use more than their Lotus 

I love driving my Lotus and hope to be able to drive it for many years to come. Not so in love with the direction the company is going for future cars, but then the world is changing and Lotus does need to adapt. However, as a result, cannot see me buying another new Lotus for quite some time.

[Jcx]

On 16/02/2022 at 09:13, Bispal said:

Just catching up with some recent comments.

• I  think north America has an imperceptible impact in used Exige values. They are niche cars with a niche audience which is why they never sold many and this will probably continue to be the case.
• If the Lotus was not a parts bin special then their price would be astronomical.  You just need to look at low volume 'bespoke' manufactures like GMA / Pagani /Koenigsegg to see this.  Even McLaren use a Nissan engine block , Mitsubishi turbos, Parrot infotainment and many other borrowed bits.  using other manufacturers parts has no impact on used  Exige values
• Most people still don't get Lotus, even car enthusiasts and supercar owners.  They spend £250k on a Lambo (Audi), Ferrari or McLaren and still say Lotus are far too expensive for what they are, without even having driven one.  This is why the market place will remain exceedingly niche.  Lotus has no appeal to the Rolex collecting fraternity and never will and its that inherent but intangible perceived cachet that sky rockets values and the Exige does not have this.

Personally future values mean nothing to me.  I have no intention of selling my 430, its paid for so its staying with me for as long as I am able to use it.  I think many owners feel the same so this will make them rare and being the peak Exige the most desirable to that very small market, which I think will keep values high for low mileage good condition examples.  But these cars are bought to be driven and not collected so I personally don't think they will appreciate as they will be driven. " For the drivers' sums it up perfectly.......

Spot on Paul as always. I consider my exige a relative bargain. Yes it was expensive with its substantial purchase price, but the enjoyment I get from it is far greater - hence I think it’s value for money is astonishingly good.  

[Troyboy]

I agree. I think the Exige is a performance bargain. It is very exclusive. It looks fantastic. It is very quick indeed, but there are quicker cars. The equivalent drivers cars are two to three times more expensive. What they maybe lack is the overall fit and finish. But for me that is perfect for a performance car. I don't want lots of kit and niceties in my Exige. It is in a class of its own. Not better, just right. 

[Cemil Tacir]

Does anyone know how much the stereo system in Cup 430 weights?

I was talking with one of my friend who is planning to remove the stereo system in his GT3RS, he claims that it saves around 12 kilos.

How about the Exige's?

[Paul_D]

@Cemil Tacir I don't 'know' how much it weighs, but it won't be much. It's a bog standard head unit, and a couple of tiny speakers. (Along with minimal wiring) 

1kg for the headunit? 500g for both speakers? 

[Cemil Tacir]

Oh thanks Paul. But i think that it should be heavier than 1.5 kilos. But i am really curious about it.

[Paul_D]

@Cemil Tacir Which bits do you think will be heavier?

Here's a random Clarion head unit specification: https://www.clarion.com/gb/en/products-personal/audio/CZ315E/specification/index.html#Fm-1Anchor

It's 1.06kg.

The speakers are very cheap 4" ones, so here's a random JVC 4" speaker: https://uk.jvc.com/car-entertainment/10cm-speakers/CS-J410X/

The speakers are 0.22kg each without the grills. 

That's pretty much all there is to the Lotus stereo system. Even if you ripped out the wiring as well, there's not much of it between the head unit and speakers. 

Edited March 1, 2022 by Paul_D

[Cemil Tacir]

The links that you shared, shows that the system is around 1.5-2.0 kilos. I thought that the back of the head unit(which cannot be seen due that it is inside the front panel) is a heavy metal piece that is around 3-4 kilos. Thanks for the links and your time.

[Paul_D]

No, I'm afraid there isn't a heavy metal piece behind the head unit which can save more weight. The total weight of it will be very similar to the 1.06kg in that link, as most single DIN head units are similar. (I've replaced the head unit twice in the last 12 months, and there's definitely nothing more to it). The standard speakers are even cheaper and lighter than the ones in the link.

If you left the standard wiring in place and only removed the front speakers and head unit I'd bet money that the total weight reduction would be between 1.4 and 1.7kg. It's certainly not enough that you're going to notice a difference when driving, so unless you were trying to remove every last gram from the car you'd probably be better off keeping the luxury of a stereo. (Unless it was a track only car of course, in which case you may as well take it out)

 

[Cemil Tacir]

You're right. Mine doesn't have the stereo system. I am only going to use it on track so that it was the best option for me.

[SpiritofLotus]

I ordered my 430 FE with the fire extinguisher system; so I have no radio installed. But I have the speakers 🤔 Are the speaker covers just dummies?

Greets SoL

Edited March 2, 2022 by SpiritofLotus

[Cemil Tacir]

Great. Hope you will enjoy the car. I think the covers are out there that if you want to add a stereo system.

[rs200evo]

Finally mine was ready for pickup @ Parks in Glasgow, roll on the decent weather....

 

 

[Troyboy]

That looks fabulous. What colour is it. It is difficult to tell. Congratulations and enjoy. 

[stephenwhyte]

Looks to be Military Grey😎