Brexit

[Barrykearley]

Leaked brexit documentation 

 

 

[eclat22]

Signed, now at over 55000

 

Edited December 14, 2018 by eclat22
Spelling mistake

[Royal]

Signed. Now at 56,233 and climbing. 

Reckon it will be 100,000 by the morning.

[pete]

Interesting opinion of a German MEP

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1031342/Brexit-news-update-UK-EU-deal-customs-union-Hans-Olaf-Henkel-Germany

[Chillidoggy]

Signed.

[Barrykearley]

Ken Clarke’s spewing bull on ch4 news now 🤬

[march]

They wheeled out Mr Blair on Radio 2 this morning as well.

The petition has just hit 60,000. Watching it count up reminds me of the highly annoying and addictive Paperclip game Bibs posted a while back - I wonder if wheeling out Mr. Blair is like buying a Mega paperclip builder?

[Barrykearley]

5 minutes ago, Buddsy said:

Well fair enough...but the petition is over 60K now

 

buddsy

Even ken Clarke a devout EU lover actually stated he wasn’t sure another referendum would help.

that and that alone is enough for me to conclude they have been researching the possible outcome and simply don’t want to ask the question again and they won’t like the answer

It’s looking like yellow jackets are selling out fast on amazon and eBay @Buddsy

[MPx]

65208...

[williamtherebel]

10 hours ago, C8RKH said:

My signature is 48,163.

Mine is 65,543. Keep it going!!

[Barrykearley]

Looks like the May deal will get voted on in the new year. All being well it will be kicked into the long grass and we will indeed crash out of the EU.

 

thatll shake them up and sort the whole lot for once and for all. We keep £39bn - and the EU will need to deal with the open border in Ireland. 

[Barrykearley]

Ps - the data from the petition would suggest someone’s entered most MPs onto the list 😂

[march]

@Barrykearley Having looked at the data I am pretty sure this is just the pre-loaded form data i.e country of origin, aids for searching by constituancy etc.. I do not think this covers any signatories - I am sure any of this kind of public data availability would contravene the data protection act.

[Black Forest Power]

With this post I may risk getting tarred, bounced and banned from TLF because you might think it is impertinent when a German gives his comment about this very internal British topic.

But we are all Europeans still together in EU and I think this matter is so important, much more important than our common interest in Lotus, that I like to let you know my personal deep concernment and a point of view from outside UK.

Reading all your comments, your anger, fear and frustration I can assure you I do share a lot of this points of view with you. However, in your posts I can identify quite some historic wounds with deep scars being chronic with the danger to reopen old sores. Unfortunately this tendency can be observed in many countries nowadays not just within the EU. But we must know, either we try to be all great again or we will be all losers together in the long run driven by resentments. Cooperation was, is, and will be the only way for all of us to be great.

I do not like at all that EU is not flexible, not ready to reform itself and not willing to compromise with you. In any case, your concerns about Germany conquering Europe I can take away easily your fear by arguing that Germany without your vote any more in EU will get taken over by the southern states e.g. Italy, France, Spain etc. Only together with you and some other Benelux EU-members Germany is and was able to build a necessary majority against this kleptomania, habitual debtors, and minority dictatorship you and I we are against it. Without UK in EU Germany will weaken and suffer a lot, and let down by the remaining members. Therefor still I refuse to give up hope that we will find a way together with you, of course with EU to be forced to become refurbished by this incident.

 

You / UK are very very important and relevant for our common European future – please, DO NOT LEAVE US ALONE!

[Neal H]

It's a shame Mrs Merkel doesn't share your point of view. My hope is that UK's departure will force much needed reform on the EU.

[jonwat]

7 hours ago, Barrykearley said:

We keep £39bn - and the EU will need to deal with the open border in Ireland. 

I wouldn't be surprised if May has signed away tbe £39bn unconditionally. 

[C8RKH]

I would hope, and do believe that @Black Forest Power that your input and views are welcomed on here and provide another perspective for us to view the situation from.  

Our relationship with the EU and the common market has not been an easy one. The French were complete b@stards when we first wanted to join and even recently we were betrayed by Merkel (over Juncker's getting the presidency and the re-negotiations that Cameron attempted that ultimately led to the Brexit vote) and then there is Spain and their two-faced attitude too.  A lot of this fuels the discontent and the view of many "normal" British people that the EU and her heads of state cannot be trusted. However, on a personal level these same many normal British people have a very open, hospitable and warm welcome for their European counterparts either when they visit us in the UK or when we go and visit them in Germany, France, Italy etc.

I agree with your point that the UK is a large market and 1 UK leaving is like 19 smaller members going. However, nationalistic self interest is not just confined to the UK with Brexit, and each of the 27 has something that they want to get out of the UK leaving and whilst in general, I do agree that in the majority we have good friends in Germany, Netherlands, Denmark, Poland, etc, we know that there are several countries, led by France and Spain who have a seething resentment of the UK and do want to make us pay.

I am all for the UK staying within the common market, this is one aspect of the EU experiment that has been good and positive. But if it means we have to continue to restrict our trading ties within the world and take all the other backage that comes with it (freedom to benefit surf; European Courts, EU laws, etc) then I just do not think it is worth it.

However, please keep posting and sharing your views. You'll certainly not get shot, tarred or banned by me  and I'm one of the looney Brexiteers!

 

[LotusFella]

Up to 92000 now!👍

[pete]

All the people calling for another referendum are assuming that the vote will be remain, if that is on the ballot paper, so how will they react this time if it is leave?

[Barrykearley]

Best of 5 ??

[100th_Idiot]

I voted remain last time but would be leave this time.

[Barrykearley]

May we ask why @100th_Idiot??

[100th_Idiot]

24 minutes ago, Barrykearley said:

May we ask why @100th_Idiot??

I was borderline at the original vote but felt we would be marginally better of economically staying in and continuing to work reforming the EU from inside. The uk has always acted as a bit of a brake on some of the more integrationist aspects of the EU. Since the referendum went brexit I knew we would not be able to negotiate a good deal. The EU has a reputation for being tough trade negotiators (google comments from us trade delegations). 

Now we have a not great deal on the table which was inevitable and with the backstop we have handed the EU a massive club to wield in negotiations of future trade relations. The EU will use that (French and Spanish fishing rights etc.)

Its sad we seem to have lost the ability to have a civilised debate about the issues. I have friends on both sides. Had a good discuss in with a taxi driver two weeks ago. But even in this forum it can descend to name calling whether remoaners or brexit extremists.

I still think Bo Jo is a self serving dangerous idiot and Rees Mogg is a twat. Northing will change that.

It's clear to me if we end up staying close to the EU our influence now will be severely weakened. So from here we are better off out. Back to my original supposition after the vote. Get out quick and don't Pisa away two years negotiating for a crap deal.

 

 

[Chillidoggy]

Agree with you ref BoJo and JRM. Dangerous men, the pair of them.

[duncx]

@BlackForestPower - I am far from thinking you impertinent, I welcome your input.

The fundamental problem is this - we originally joined the common market and everyone I know thinks this was a good idea. Since then the EU has changed beyond recognition with deeper and deeper integration, and until now nobody has bothered to ask us if we are still happy with this. If the EU was still simply a trading block there is NO WAY that the UK would have voted to leave.

I know a number of leavers and remainers, all intelligent people who voted their way for their own reasons, but ALL want to remain friends with our European neighbours. I'm sure it will all turn out ok