Brexit

[Stubox]

32 minutes ago, Steve V8 said:

This is the result of the EU's underhand trade deal with Japan, designed specifically to undermine the UK's position in the event of a hard Brexit.

Commenced in 2013 and finalised in Dec 17.

[Stubox]

1 hour ago, Barrykearley said:

Wltp rules is causing mayhem - vw dealers confirmed last week - May delivery or there’s nowt until October!!

Only really with VAG product lines. They were arguing against implementation right up until Dec 17. Now they’re playing catch up with self inflicted delays. Most of the other manufacturers got on with conversion of existing or deletion of power trains awaiting the new ones . 

[Barrykearley]

@Buddsy - VW are stating just the same presently 

7 minutes ago, Stubox said:

Only really with VAG product lines. They were arguing against implementation right up until Dec 17. Now they’re playing catch up with self inflicted delays. Most of the other manufacturers got on with conversion of existing or deletion of power trains awaiting the new ones . 

Not only VAG - don’t mention JLR - that’s a secret

[Stubox]

2 minutes ago, Barrykearley said:

@Buddsy - VW are stating just the same presently 

Not only VAG - don’t mention JLR - that’s a secret

JLR have completely different issues to deal with not wltp. Sadly they’re facing a crossroads particularly with Jag and a poorly timed set of one off extraordinary loss adjustments. Plus Tata investors not happy at bringing more to the party as they want to  make Jag all electric which will cost a penny or 2. Then China sales reduction of course, and the one everyone is waving around being diesel centric. Bit of a perfect storm for them. However their Ingenium petrol engines are all sorted out now. 

[Kimbers]

Working as I do and have in the industry for over 25 years and doing what I do now we see the whole picture (not small sections) from every manufacturer as we deal with them all. 

JLR just doesn't make cars people want anymore. They invariably have large thirsty diesel engines and their cars are too heavy and cumbersome to do what everyone else is doing and use small, high output Turbo charged petrol engines. (Kia have just released a 1.0 Engine in the Rio with 118HP and others have similar sized engines at 130hp. Which is crazy! Plus their most recent Disco is widely considered the Ssanyong Rhodius of our time. Its just so ugly at the back. Then they cancelled their most iconic car without a replacement being imminent and now many others have stolen their Thunder. Suzuki even bringing out a Mini Defender Clone in the new Jimny.

Honda don't make desirable cars for us anymore. They have truly lost their way. I commented above on my thoughts on Honda and this and what others have said is all correct. Sad because their cars used to be the most innovative and desirable out there!

Everyone else has really been hit by the swing in Worldwide demand for petrol over diesel (led by Govts and the Paris accord trying to reduce particulates). Manufacturers work 3 years in advance on design, production and parts. As such this has caught them out and this year is a "Change over year" where supply is negligible as they change production lines, suppliers etc to deal with the swing in demand. This has resulted in many manufacturers having no supply of certain cars (mainly petrol). VW petrols are May June production, Petrol Peugeots some you have to wait till Sept for (Such as the new 5008), etc etc. This has also resulted in many large fleet buyers such as Leasing companies having their terms curtailed or even withdrawn all together on these models....at a time when everyone wants them.

Govt taxing has got to a level where company car buyers are buying their own car or using pool cars, meaning instead of a 1/2/3 year lifecycle many of what would have been company cars aren't being replaced for 5 years or more. Even longer in terms of Kia's which have 7 year warranties. Company car tax on Diesels incurs an extra 3% in the UK making them even less desirable. And company cars/Fleet Cars are 50% of the market

If you look at CAP values some diesel models book worse as a used car now than their Petrol equiv. Yet cost £1500 more up front. Making people even less likely to swap their old Diesel cars. this has also made demand for used diesels plummet. Meaning there is more supply than demand and this is further pushing down values making them even less desirable and you are in a downward spiral.

The UK car industry has consisitently been screwed by the EU, even before the Japanese trade agreement Brussels had given Ford a huge amount of money in grants to make a new production plant in Poland, effectively making half of their Dagenham plant redundant and losing the UK 2500 jobs. 

Lastly Brexit uncertaincy.....not Brexit itself, the absolute cock up the Politicians have made of it in delay delay delay, which has caused uncertaincy of which way to tread, has made everyone stop and take a breath. Buyers, sellers and Manufacturers have stopped and are waiting to see what happens before resuming their trade. The last thing Companies like PSA Group, VAG Group etc want to do is commit to importing x number of vehicles to the UK at x Price and then find out a 10% Tariff has been imposed and they make massive losses. (Like I said above, they have to work on supply way in advance). So this will have a roll on effect even after Brexit has happened while they ramp up production again, of RHD cars.

 

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

Surely it will be the customer that pays any import duty, not the supplier/dealer? That will certainly be the case in my industry. Of course an extra 10% on the price will reduce UK demand for the EU manufacturers. 

[jonwat]

50 minutes ago, Kimbers said:

The UK car industry has consisitently been screwed by the EU, even before the Japanese trade agreement Brussels had given Ford a huge amount of money in grants to make a new production plant in Poland, effectively making half of their Dagenham plant redundant and losing the UK 2500 jobs. 

You couldn't make sh1t like this up, the UK giving money to the EU to take jobs from the UK.

I read an interview, before the referendum, with a Polish journalist who said "before Poland joined the EU we used to travel around by horse & cart, now we have motorways going everywhere. Why would anyone ever want to leave the EU."

Says it all really.

And now Spain are kicking off about Gibraltar, they want us to pay £52 for a visa, which takes 2 weeks for authorisation, in order for us to visit the EU & spend our money in their resorts. Let's see how their tourist industry copes with us Brits going elsewhere. Bonkers.

Rant over, I feel better now. 

[Neal H]

What is import duty if not another tax. If all this comes true then the government is in for a tax windfall and they can then afford to give us all tax breaks to re-stimulate our spending. Or drop it into the black hole called the NHS.

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

All of those tens of thousands of new civil servants will need to be paid to process all the potential new paperwork, so it won't go to waste. We'll have a bureaucracy to rival India soon.

[Chillidoggy]

1 minute ago, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

All of those tens of thousands of new civil servants will need to be paid to process all the potential new paperwork, so it won't go to waste. We'll have a bureaucracy to rival India soon.

Or France.

[Kimbers]

Interesting to note the doom sayers saying we will go into another recession and it will all be Brexits fault.

Point of note: Italy has just gone into recession, Spain and Germany are a lot worse off than us and are likely to go into recession with the UK leaving and the reduction in monies they will get (Plus the German car manufacturers are sqwarking like stuffed pigs over their potential lost sales in the UK) and this may then push the remaining countries into recession. 

But it will all be Brexits fault................

[Bibs]

2 hours ago, Kimbers said:

this has also made demand for used diesels plummet

Not according to Autotrader.

https://www.am-online.com/news/market-insight/2019/02/18/used-diesels-leave-dealer-forecourts-quicker-says-auto-trader

I think people know they aren't as bad as the govt suggests and like the economy they offer over most petrol cars.

[Kimbers]

4 minutes ago, Bibs said:

Not according to Autotrader.

https://www.am-online.com/news/market-insight/2019/02/18/used-diesels-leave-dealer-forecourts-quicker-says-auto-trader

I think people know they aren't as bad as the govt suggests and like the economy they offer over most petrol cars.

Thats because they have reached a point where they are actually much cheaper than they used to be. But Auto trader knows nothing TBH, they see them leaving forecourts quickly but don't see the dealers and selling companies (like me) losing the clothes off their back to make them move. For example, I had a batch of Diesels that booked at £24650 TRADE, Motorpoint are selling them at £23995 RETAIL. They owe me trade but to sell them to Motorpoint I need to sell them at £23000, £1650 behind what their percieved trade value to be. Only then do they sell and I take a bath!

[Bibs]

When you times that loss by the volume you deal in a bet that stings a little. 

My VW is £30/year to tax and gets 600 miles from a £60 tank, I'd buy another diesel over a petrol for the running costs. It's a 2l turbo. My Impreza is also a 2l turbo, gets 200 miles from a tank and costs much more to tax and there's only 6hp difference between them!

[Kimbers]

I agree mate. Totally bonkers. Think of the extra pollution a petrol causes just by being less economical. Then add in the higher Co2 to begin with and it doesn't make sense.

[andydclements]

The trouble with diesels isn't the CO2, it's the particulates that allegedly cause breathing problems, so it's a matter of what is seen as the less bad (greenhouse gasses or particulates in lungs)?

[Bibs]

It's been in the news recently that toast and roast dinners are just as bad for you! 

[Andyww]

3 hours ago, jonwat said:

You couldn't make sh1t like this up, the UK giving money to the EU to take jobs from the UK.

Rant over, I feel better now. 

If you want an even more thorough rant: The EU gave grants to Ford to move the Transit plant from Southampton to TURKEY which isnt in even in the EU!

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/taxpayers-millions-fuel-ford-transit-move-to-turkey-sjsdcmsn23k

3 hours ago, Neal H said:

What is import duty if not another tax. If all this comes true then the government is in for a tax windfall and they can then afford to give us all tax breaks to re-stimulate our spending. Or drop it into the black hole called the NHS.

Exactly. Many people in the media seem to forget this. They talk as if tariffs are a cost which disappears into some black hole.

[jonwat]

37 minutes ago, Andyww said:

If you want an even more thorough rant: The EU gave grants to Ford to move the Transit plant from Southampton to TURKEY which isnt in even in the EU!

Muppets, and they're absolutely gobsmacked we voted out. 

[LotusFella]

Looks like we’re going to get totally F**ked over by the EU and our incompetent government.

[C8RKH]

Nah. All part of the master plan to leave with no deal as world trade rules!

It's just a game of who blinks first. 

 

 

[Andyww]

This is panning out as I predicted some time ago, unfortunately.

Corbyn has now been persuaded to endorse a "peoples vote". Mays deal will get rejected, everything will be postponed during which time the pressure from the establishment will reach breaking point, a vote will be taken which will result in remaining. May will not care as she was a remainer. 

 

[Barrykearley]

I predict a riot

[C8RKH]

2 hours ago, Andyww said:

Corbyn has now been persuaded to endorse a "peoples vote".

Not according to the news I was reading tonight. He's back tracking again. But maybe I was watching Russian TV and it was all fake. Maybe I'm fake. I'm actually Tracey from Middlewich..... 🤪

[Andyww]

This is very interesting:

https://www.politicalite.com/brexit/brexit-bombshell-a-german-brexit-a-scandal-of-subversive-statecraft/?fbclid=IwAR1SMs-WCX3fx66LvmhFGpuSfI0aCxnXWACasDcWhIsEXyicX0bbOcTo16o