Stick or Twist?

[Bruss]

That looks superb. Enjoy.

[C8RKH]

I have to admit in those colours it does look pretty superb. I can see why you made the switch. Enjoy.

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

That looks like a lovely interior too. It’s funny how we get all snooty about modern car interiors. Those seats are just classic ca. 1970 Daytona. What more does one need to sit on and drive?

[Barrykearley]

I am concerned however about the lack of cup holders.

[Julian73]

On 30/06/2020 at 08:58, Bibs said:

410 with Sparco's? @bosshog's car and it's a stunning example

Ah, the American version of the 410 Sport

[Julian73]

On 01/07/2020 at 11:19, Tris... said:

Where you in a Sport 410 or a GT410 Sport (Someone should shot who ever comes up with the model names).

My experience in the GT410 Sport is, while the suspension is tight and firm it is by no means uncomfortable on a B or C Road. I don't know whether there is a different between the two 410 models. I've always been amazed at how much better the suspension setup on Evora's is compared to the Cayman I drove while the LE was in the shop.

Couldn't get rid of the Cayman quick enough.

Tris...

The 'GT410 Sport' uses the same suspension as the original 'Sport 410' (aka 410 Sport), and federal version 'GT', the 'GT410 (Touring/Pack)' uses the same as the old 400

[paranoidandroid]

5 hours ago, blueg33 said:

It’s Nero Daytona (metallic black). F1 box and 40k miles.  The key things though are that everything these cars need doing will be done by the dealer before I pick it up.  

I don’t have many pics

 

 

Looks fantastic, well done. I much prefer the non-red 360’s, and that looks stunning with that interior. 

[Goatboy]

Nice choice! How did you get on with the f1 box?  I have only ever had a passenger ride in a Maserati 4200 with the same box and I thought it was rather clunky and very noisy! Might be a different experience in a fez though. 

Love the seats!

[blueg33]

The F1 box is ok if you treat it like a manual.  I have driven a few F cars with it. The best application is in the 575, the worst in the 355.  It has to be set up right too   The car I am buying was very good, nearly as smooth as the IPS in my Evora.  One of the cars I considered was awful, almost undriveable.

Going up the box you have to lift the throttle a tiny bit to avoid the jerkiness.  It changes very quickly under high revs, but is more docile at lower revs.  I believe that reversing uphill is a bad plan.  

[blueg33]

On 03/08/2020 at 09:55, DJW said:

Expect to see a 400 popping and banging on downshifts around Evesham soon then

 

Edited August 17, 2020 by blueg33
Quoted wrong post and cant see how to delete!

[62dave]

Looks fantastic Nick! I like that you’ve stuck with the “Daytona” colour scheme.. even if it’s not Daytona blue!

Edited August 17, 2020 by 62dave

[blueg33]

Funny you should say that, I had an Audi A6 Le Mans in Daytona Grey

[TdM]

There's nothing quite like an Italian car. It's all drama, doesn't seem to matter which one you buy, how fast or how slow they make everything an event. You'll enjoy that car a lot, hope it treats you well!

[blueg33]

I thought I would update this topic now that I have had the Ferrari for a couple of months, its a very interesting comparison with the Evora.

Obviously the Ferrari si nearly 20 years old whilst my last Evora was only 6 years old so that will affect some things especially the tech side of the car, but the cars are similar in many ways, let me try to set it out.

Looks:

The Ferrari is obviously dated in this department, but in my opinion its starting to become a classic and is less fussy than the later cars.  The Evora much more modern.  I always thought the Evora looked a bit high at the back because the engine is mounted quite high, the Ferrari is sleeker as a result and about 10cm lower.  Ferrari lights are dated compared with the Evora even though the Evora's aren't exactly state of the art.

Interior

This is where the Ferrari has many advantages, my car has leather everywhere, headliner, sun visors (suede on the inside) and this leather has worn really well.  The 20 year old Ferrari has worn better than the Evoras I have had despite similar mileage.  Everything inside the Ferrari feels premium (I am lucky I don't have sticky switches), whereas the Evora especially the 400's feel like a let down in this regard.  The Ferrari has no squeaks or rattles at all, there was always something in my Evora's, not much, just enough to be irritating.

The Evora (MK1's at least) win hands down on seat comfort, although the Ferrari seats are not bad.  The Evora also has things like heated seats, cruise control and trip computer that are absent in the Ferrari.  The Ferrari does have electric seats and the instrumentation is better with oil temp and pressure gauges.  The wipers are also better.

The Ferrari doesn't leak, the Evoras all has a slight drip onto the door air vent

Engine

Obviously no contest, the Ferrari engine is sublime, smooth for a V8 and intoxicating at 8000rpm, and despite what things say on paper, the Ferrari is noticeably faster than my S was and than the 400;s I have driven.  You really notice it from 40mph upwards, no flat spots, not dying pf power, just a linear rush towards the horizon.  However, the Ferrari engine is temperamental, it has to be warmed up, when cold its horrid and lumpy, you get occasional random slow down lights (I need new cat ECU's), and you need oven gloves to check the oil level.  The Evora, always felt like it had a good engine and I liked its character, but it always felt like there was something missing, I can't put my finger on it though.  My Evoras were totally reliable in the engine department, I suspect the Ferrari will be niggly.

Drivetrain

My Ferrari is the F1 robotised manual with paddle shift.  It is horrid in traffic jams but very good when driving hard.  The IPS in the Evora was a much nicer thing to use and the bark on gear change was lovely, and i miss that with the Ferrari.  The IPS always felt as if it was sapping a bit of power, the Ferrari does not give that feeling, it feels like a manual.  Overall, the manual Evora is better than the F1 Ferrari and the IPS is better than both as a daily driver.  The Ferrari has better chosen gear ratios.

Brakes

Both are excellent in terms of stopping power., I found both my Evoras squirrelled a bit under heavy braking, the Ferrari doesn't.  Both cars have similarly progressive pedals and both have great brake feel.

Handling and Ride

The big one!  And its close, but the Evora has the edge overall.  The Evora has slightly better feel and a more precise centre position, both load up nicely on turn in and the car goes exactly where you want it to go, in reality there is not much between them, but the Evora has a bit more grip and is a bit narrower so its easier to drive it fast, there are times when the Ferrari feels more edgy, I think the back will let go sooner than the Evora (same width tyres).  At speed though you really notice the extra downforce the Ferrari has on fast sweeping corners.  The lower CoG helps too.

Ride - well its obvious the Evora is superb, the Ferrari is firm and annoyingly firm in sport mode.  The Ferrari corners flatter but is more wearing.  

Overall the Ferrari feels more raw than the Evora despite the leather, thick carpets etc.

Running Costs

Consumables in the Ferrari are generally cheaper than the Evora, especially brakes and tyres (smaller diameter).  Insurance on the Ferrari is cheaper.  Then there are the buts.....

• I am averaging 16mpg the Evora S was 22mpg
• Servicing is a similar price with an Indy but there seems to be more to go wrong and it costs to get to the parts
• Clutch needs doing more frequently, but costs less, until other things are found.....
• Belts every 3 years will make that service about £400 more than the service when my S needed belts
• Ball joints get used up faster than Evora arb bushes and cost quite a bit more

However, I found I spent quite a bit on irritating niggles with the Evoras I had, numerous A pillar trims, headlight lacquers, failed door locks, failed brake switch sensor, failed paddle.  In many cases these things failed several times.  The Ferrari just feels better put together in these respects, but only time will tell.

Living with it

Both cars get lots of attention, my Daytona Blue Evora S probably the most due to its colour.  Both cars need wide parking spaces, I miss the reversing camera that the Evora had.  Despite the fact the Ferrari has better all round visibility, its still a pain to park and you are very conscious of the F1 box slipping that expensive clutch.

The Evora can carry more stuff, thanks to the back seat, the Ferrari has more legroom, headroom and shoulder space.  Its easier to get out of the Ferrari.

Both cars have average headlights.

I worry more about the Ferrari parked outside in all weathers even though it doesn't leak.  This may be misplaced irrationality.

Ferrari are much more supportive of owners, even those that have old low value models.  They have dedicated apps that can tell you thinks like original spec, service details etc, they offer free international breakdown cover and invite you to stuff.  I have already had an invitation to drive the F8 Tributo (I did, what a great car that is), and to other events.  I didn't hear anything from Lotus in 8 years of owning their cars.

But a Ferrari is a bit embarrassing too.  When people ask you what you drive and you said a Lotus, they knew they were talking to an enthusiast, saying "a Ferrari", makes you sound like a rich git.  (I am not rich).

So sorry to talk about an old Italian pony on a Lotus thread, but some people had asked me for the comparison.

In summary I loved the Evoras I had and I love the Ferrari, I would be happy with either.  I do think that when it was new the Ferrari must have been incredible, 20 years on in performance terms it beats an Evora 400 and its nearly as good for handling and balance.

 

[blueg33]

1 hour ago, blueg33 said:

I thought I would update this topic now that I have had the Ferrari for a couple of months, its a very interesting comparison with the Evora.

Obviously the Ferrari si nearly 20 years old whilst my last Evora was only 6 years old so that will affect some things especially the tech side of the car, but the cars are similar in many ways, let me try to set it out.

Looks:

The Ferrari is obviously dated in this department, but in my opinion its starting to become a classic and is less fussy than the later cars.  The Evora much more modern.  I always thought the Evora looked a bit high at the back because the engine is mounted quite high, the Ferrari is sleeker as a result and about 10cm lower.  Ferrari lights are dated compared with the Evora even though the Evora's aren't exactly state of the art.

Interior

This is where the Ferrari has many advantages, my car has leather everywhere, headliner, sun visors (suede on the inside) and this leather has worn really well.  The 20 year old Ferrari has worn better than the Evoras I have had despite similar mileage.  Everything inside the Ferrari feels premium (I am lucky I don't have sticky switches), whereas the Evora especially the 400's feel like a let down in this regard.  The Ferrari has no squeaks or rattles at all, there was always something in my Evora's, not much, just enough to be irritating.

The Evora (MK1's at least) win hands down on seat comfort, although the Ferrari seats are not bad.  The Evora also has things like heated seats, cruise control and trip computer that are absent in the Ferrari.  The Ferrari does have electric seats and the instrumentation is better with oil temp and pressure gauges.  The wipers are also better.

The Ferrari doesn't leak, the Evoras all has a slight drip onto the door air vent

Engine

Obviously no contest, the Ferrari engine is sublime, smooth for a V8 and intoxicating at 8000rpm, and despite what things say on paper, the Ferrari is noticeably faster than my S was and than the 400;s I have driven.  You really notice it from 40mph upwards, no flat spots, not dying pf power, just a linear rush towards the horizon.  However, the Ferrari engine is temperamental, it has to be warmed up, when cold its horrid and lumpy, you get occasional random slow down lights (I need new cat ECU's), and you need oven gloves to check the oil level.  The Evora, always felt like it had a good engine and I liked its character, but it always felt like there was something missing, I can't put my finger on it though.  My Evoras were totally reliable in the engine department, I suspect the Ferrari will be niggly.

Drivetrain

My Ferrari is the F1 robotised manual with paddle shift.  It is horrid in traffic jams but very good when driving hard.  The IPS in the Evora was a much nicer thing to use and the bark on gear change was lovely, and i miss that with the Ferrari.  The IPS always felt as if it was sapping a bit of power, the Ferrari does not give that feeling, it feels like a manual.  Overall, the manual Evora is better than the F1 Ferrari and the IPS is better than both as a daily driver.  The Ferrari has better chosen gear ratios.

Brakes

Both are excellent in terms of stopping power., I found both my Evoras squirrelled a bit under heavy braking, the Ferrari doesn't.  Both cars have similarly progressive pedals and both have great brake feel.

Handling and Ride

The big one!  And its close, but the Evora has the edge overall.  The Evora has slightly better feel and a more precise centre position, both load up nicely on turn in and the car goes exactly where you want it to go, in reality there is not much between them, but the Evora has a bit more grip and is a bit narrower so its easier to drive it fast, there are times when the Ferrari feels more edgy, I think the back will let go sooner than the Evora (same width tyres).  At speed though you really notice the extra downforce the Ferrari has on fast sweeping corners.  The lower CoG helps too.

Ride - well its obvious the Evora is superb, the Ferrari is firm and annoyingly firm in sport mode.  The Ferrari corners flatter but is more wearing.  

Overall the Ferrari feels more raw than the Evora despite the leather, thick carpets etc.

Running Costs

Consumables in the Ferrari are generally cheaper than the Evora, especially brakes and tyres (smaller diameter).  Insurance on the Ferrari is cheaper.  Then there are the buts.....

• I am averaging 16mpg the Evora S was 22mpg
• Servicing is a similar price with an Indy but there seems to be more to go wrong and it costs to get to the parts
• Clutch needs doing more frequently, but costs less, until other things are found.....
• Belts every 3 years will make that service about £400 more than the service when my S needed belts
• Ball joints get used up faster than Evora arb bushes and cost quite a bit more

However, I found I spent quite a bit on irritating niggles with the Evoras I had, numerous A pillar trims, headlight lacquers, failed door locks, failed brake switch sensor, failed paddle.  In many cases these things failed several times.  The Ferrari just feels better put together in these respects, but only time will tell.

Living with it

Both cars get lots of attention, my Daytona Blue Evora S probably the most due to its colour.  Both cars need wide parking spaces, I miss the reversing camera that the Evora had.  Despite the fact the Ferrari has better all round visibility, its still a pain to park and you are very conscious of the F1 box slipping that expensive clutch.

The Evora can carry more stuff, thanks to the back seat, the Ferrari has more legroom, headroom and shoulder space.  Its easier to get out of the Ferrari.

Both cars have average headlights.

I worry more about the Ferrari parked outside in all weathers even though it doesn't leak.  This may be misplaced irrationality.

Ferrari are much more supportive of owners, even those that have old low value models.  They have dedicated apps that can tell you thinks like original spec, service details etc, they offer free international breakdown cover and invite you to stuff.  I have already had an invitation to drive the F8 Tributo (I did, what a great car that is), and to other events.  I didn't hear anything from Lotus in 8 years of owning their cars.

But a Ferrari is a bit embarrassing too.  When people ask you what you drive and you said a Lotus, they knew they were talking to an enthusiast, saying "a Ferrari", makes you sound like a rich git.  (I am not rich).

So sorry to talk about an old Italian pony on a Lotus thread, but some people had asked me for the comparison.

In summary I loved the Evoras I had and I love the Ferrari, I would be happy with either.  I do think that when it was new the Ferrari must have been incredible, 20 years on in performance terms it beats an Evora 400 and its nearly as good for handling and balance.

 

Forgot to add, the heater and aircon in the Ferrari is way better than in the Evora, it heats up quickly and cools very effectively.

[jerzybondov]

Great write up - thanks @blueg33! How many miles are on the Ferrari by the way, and how many did you have on your Evora? Your Fezza looks like it's been well looked after in its 20 year life! 

And if you're getting an indy to service your 360 for the £280 Lotus fixed cost I'm impressed!  

[blueg33]

2 minutes ago, jerzybondov said:

Great write up - thanks @blueg33! How many miles are on the Ferrari by the way, and how many did you have on your Evora? Your Fezza looks like it's been well looked after in its 20 year life! 

And if you're getting an indy to service your 360 for the £280 Lotus fixed cost I'm impressed!  

Thanks

 

The Ferrari has 40k miles on it, I sold my last Evora at 52k miles.  In terms of the service, I never benefited from the fixed price, I'm assuming that's a new thing?  My last service on the Lotus was May I think.  A basic oil change etc on the Ferrari from and Indy is about £450, it typically cost me £350-500 on the Evora, so I guess the Evora is a bit cheaper.

[C8RKH]

Great write-up and really informative. Thank you. Please do give us regular updates and more pictures of your Stallion!

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

What’s your cambelt service price? Is it engine out or not on these? My old Ferrari is now on its 9th cambelt in 29 years. Each cambelt service is a £1495 + VAT engine out job. Crazy really: most cars never get separated from their engine for their entire lives!

Having said that, it’s just been done at Keys Motorsport, Silverstone and is now running better than ever.

[blueg33]

Cambelt is around £1200, its not engine out in the 360.  Needs doing every 3 years through

[jerzybondov]

5 hours ago, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

What’s your cambelt service price? Is it engine out or not on these? My old Ferrari is now on its 9th cambelt in 29 years. Each cambelt service is a £1495 + VAT engine out job. Crazy really: most cars never get separated from their engine for their entire lives!

Having said that, it’s just been done at Keys Motorsport, Silverstone and is now running better than ever.

What old Ferrari have you got @LotusLeftLotusRight? Pics!

[LoW8]

Thanks for the comparison mate 👍🏼

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

16 hours ago, jerzybondov said:

What old Ferrari have you got @LotusLeftLotusRight? Pics!

Unrestored 1991 Mondial T cabriolet. 46,000 miles.

 

[jerzybondov]

2 hours ago, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

Unrestored 1991 Mondial T cabriolet. 46,000 miles.

 

Gorgeous!! 

[C8RKH]

@LotusLeftLotusRight- is that a development from the older 400?  I love the interiors (dash and front seats) of the 400. Would be a real issue having one as it has seats in the back lol.....