Tubular Quiet Track Exhaust (Silencer)

[C8RKH]

28 minutes ago, Paul_D said:

Basically, it caused his car to catch fire. And Jim wasn’t exactly sympathetic. 
 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/244205262448043/permalink/2015025665365985/

That's a private group so you cannot get access without applying and being accepted. So a pretty useless link

 

[Paul_D]

Ah, I wasn't aware of that.

But it's not 'useless' is it? If you're interested you just need to join the group and then look. It's not like joining the Masons, anyone will be accepted if you send a request.

[Mitch Foden-Clarke]

Thanks for sharing @Paul_D  I’m not on Facebook so I HiJacked my wife’s FB and joined the group. Very interesting/scary read 😬🙈 

 Was the fire caused by the internal wadding catching fire?

 Do you know if Eddie had a full 2bular Decat system with manifolds etc or if it was literally just the silencer?

 Would having the silencer re-packed have prevented the issue?

 No matter of the answers it’s still extremely alarming!!!

[Paul_D]

@Mitch Foden-Clarke

I don’t really know the details, but It looks like the resonator section snapped, with the pipe coming away from it. 
 

I’m also guessing at that point the very hot exhaust gasses were being directed on to parts of the car which could catch fire?

[Mitch Foden-Clarke]

 Ah I see, sorry I do remember seeing that part of the exhaust had snapped in the photo now that you mention it…..

 I’m still really shocked by this 

[Paul_D]

Yeah. I mean, sometimes things fail. It happens. 
 

The part that I think is more concerning is the implication that this wasn’t actually a one off. 
 

The fact that the warranty on a track exhaust isn’t valid if the exhaust is used on track is almost funny. 

[Mitch Foden-Clarke]

 So this has happened more than once with 2bular exhausts?

 If an exhaust manufacturer won’t accept responsibility and there’s no warranty for a track exhaust when used on track what stops them from just making exhausts from balsa wood? As you say it is laughable….

 The only deterrent is word of mouth and a loss of future business I guess

[Yannie]

16 hours ago, C8RKH said:

That's a private group so you cannot get access without applying and being accepted. So a pretty useless link

 

I just filled in the form and can see it now.

[Diablos-666]

Here’s a link from 2bular to explain their side of things…

https://www.2bular.com/qp-system-on-track?fbclid=IwAR0o3KSEvjxE_aGu_PmRU_ckYx409xu7FF7NSY6hG53CgFbARNBWz-IPfWc

 

I don’t have any affiliation 2bular but think it’s only fair to hear from both sides before casting judgement. 

Jim goes on a bit of a rant but does state part of the exhaust was from a car previously crashed… 

It’s terrible what’s happened to Eddie, and hopefully he gets he’s car repaired without too much hurt to he’s pocket.

[Yannie]

Yes it seems unfortunate that between the well worded post is some fairly negative and also rather short sighted (forums, eh) commentary.

[Bibs]

Just to again point out, he's never been banned from TLF, his account is @2bular Exhausts and you can see it's live and shows as a basic account, not banned. 

[Tex]

3 hours ago, Diablos-666 said:

Here’s a link from 2bular to explain their side of things…

https://www.2bular.com/qp-system-on-track?fbclid=IwAR0o3KSEvjxE_aGu_PmRU_ckYx409xu7FF7NSY6hG53CgFbARNBWz-IPfWc

 

I don’t have any affiliation 2bular but think it’s only fair to hear from both sides before casting judgement. 

Jim goes on a bit of a rant but does state part of the exhaust was from a car previously crashed… 

It’s terrible what’s happened to Eddie, and hopefully he gets he’s car repaired without too much hurt to he’s pocket.

Interesting read from Jim.

I did think there may be more to the story than that posted on Eddies thread.

I have every sympathy with what happened to his car, and it must have been a terrific shock for him.

Although it does appear the back box which failed had been previously fitted to a written off car ?.

If this is correct then while Jim may use strong language which not everyone agrees with he does have valid points.

I feel for Eddie, however Jim runs a business and if these are the facts then he has every right to be heard and to defend himself.

I for one do not wish in any way to criticise Eddie,  but some of the folks who posted on his fb thread without knowing the potential facts

Edited June 16, 2022 by Tex
Mistakes

[ec]

Just to add in here, I did state in that forum post the exhaust was off the original damaged car and if you read the post correctly I'm not actually casting blame on the Jim. My post is about Jim's attitude to customers and his sharp tactics in dealing with negatives. As I sad to Jim after his ranting phone call, he'd have been better off saying nothing, or just saying no to my asking for assistance. I'm not the only owner to say this and many that have dealt with Jim will give a very similar account. He's threatening, sends legal letters to silence people and is generally unpleasant. 

 

I've read his rant on the website and much of it is BS. He's made up conversations that we never had and has said that he'd offered to inspect the exhaust. So far he has offered to fix the pipe FOC, but no offer to investigate the failure. We have spoken only twice on the phone since May 9th. Once on the afternoon of the fire to tell him it had happened. That was purely a conversation to tell him what had gone on and to say why, and this is where he said he's seen 3 or 4 a year in racing. I did not reference the Italian chap in my FB post because Jim had already beaten it into me on the phone that this fire was caused by heat shield removal. I sent a picture message after showing the exhaust failure. The second phone conversation was made by Jim, 11 minutes after i sent him a polite and honest message asking if he'd be willing to assist. This was a 95% one way transmission with Jim just ranting down the phone about how he doesn't make any money, doesn't care if he sells another exhaust, how Lotus make soft engine mounts and that "dealers are lying to you if they're telling you they sell track cars", doesn't have the liability insurance to cover it, laughing at my request and telling me I'm mad for asking. He also makes clear in this call that he's fully aware the exhaust was off car number 1, something I never denied and was open about. In fact, straight after that crash in 2019 he called to ask "is the exhaust alright Ed?". Since then it's done circa 35/40 trackdays on car #2 and it's been inspected during service and track prep. Lotus flagged it up for new clamps a couple of times and Jim sent me new items, so it's not like it's been neglected or left unchecked.

 

Jim has his own exhaust ranting website in case you were interested. You're welcome to check out his slating of all other brands. You'd get the same speel off him in a phone call too, should you wish to enquire about buying one.  

As I said, the post was not a Jim or exhaust blaming session. Yes, the exhaust failed and it's obvious why the car caught fire, but Jim has been incredibly aggressive and this is not a new thing.  

 

There's other areas of his response that I can't be bothered to go into in great depth because there's no point. Something about a gearchange at 2m32s? No idea what that's referencing. And there was no excess noise from the failure. I can only assume the pipe parted coming out of the last carousel at the end of the lap, which is a high stress exit and is hard on the car. 

 

Anyway, you'll make your own mind up

[Tex]

As stated this was in no way any criticism levelled at you and more directed at some of the folks who gave opinions as they are entitled to do but without perhaps fully understanding the situation imo.

With social media you can be judged guilty unfortunately 

[Mitch Foden-Clarke]

 Very interesting to hear both sides of the argument. 

 It sounds like @ecwasn't placing the blame on @2bular Exhausts and Jim has made some valid points. 

 I've personally always found Jim to be helpful on the phone but obviously under very different circumstances. 

 @ecOut of interest do you think that you would not have had this issue in the exact same set of circumstances but with a different make of exhaust?

 I must say that I was really impressed with the build quality of my 2bular track exhaust and I was extremely concerned after first seeing the post where yours had broken and set your car on fire but it does sound like the car had a hard life and there's nothing wrong with that in fact it's great that you get so much enjoyment out of it and are able to get so much track time in but that amount boarders on motorsport requirements and when I was hillclimbing Westfield's years ago I came across lots of people who would spend £20k plus on race engine builds that came with zero warranty just because it was deemed as a 'motorsport engine' and it's quite common for expensive motorsport components to not come with any warranty due to the sheer demand placed upon to them. That being said most companies would help out if it was obvious that they had cocked something up or if an engine/component blew after a very short period of time. 

 Obviously a track exhaust is designed to be used on track so you'd like to assume that it can hold up to track conditions but the real question is suppose is how much non-visible damage was done to the exhaust during the front end crash and it's something that can't really be answered at this stage. 

 Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm certainly not taking sides I'm just giving my opinion and I feel extremely sympathetic towards @ecI myself completely wrote of a very expensive Westfield at a hillclimb event with no insurance years ago and it left a great big gaping hole in my wallet so I know your pain and it's not a nice one especially when you have put so much time and money into a vehicle to see it gone in an instance. 

 @ecmade the point that he wasn't necessarily placing the blame on Jim and he was more disappointed in Jim's handling of the situation. 

 I think I speak for everyone when I say that I wish you the very best of luck getting the car back on the road. 

[ec]

In answer to your question about potential for the same happening with a different brand...

 

 

 

I've never questioned the quality of his exhaust and during my ownership it allowed me to get on track where other brands may have not. Others have criticised his stuff, but can't say anything publicly because of Jim's threatening manner, which is kinda where this has all stemmed from. The guy gets pleasure it seems from being that way and the fact he blogs his encounters with past customers, brands and fitters is truly bizarre. 

 

 

 

I took down the Facebook post this afternoon after messaging Jim to suggest we knock it on the head, however it appears he's keen to continue with his show. 

 

 

 

I'll crack on with collecting bits for my car. 

[Yannie]

On 11/06/2022 at 16:53, Mitch Foden-Clarke said:

 No I think you’ve got confused mate the guy with the Cup 430 who was lifting didn’t have a track exhaust (Lotus or 2bular) he had the EOM standard factory titanium exhaust which would get you flagged at any track. He was getting around the issue by lifting at the mic’s and avoiding them. That’s not something that I would enjoy or want to do personally but I was giving the example that if you are willing to lift and avoid mic’s you could use any exhaust because the OEM exhaust is very loud. 
 
 Seriously Lotus have had track exhausts on back order from Lotus for ages and unless things have changed recently they didn’t even know if or when they’d be getting any and there was a queue you could join if you wanted too

So. Just before I work out what I'm selling to pay for the lotus track exhaust. Is there anywhere I can track the car in the UK with a standard 420 exhaust? I don't mind lifting so I can at least do one session.

[Bravo73]

13 minutes ago, Yannie said:

Is there anywhere I can track the car in the UK with a standard 420 exhaust?

Donny Park do the very occasional ‘unlimited’ day (so you’ll be surrounded by race cars) and I’m pretty sure that Anglesey and Knockhill don’t have any neighbours. 

[Yannie]

Thanks!  Could I get away with snetteron too? 105 static then maybe lift? 🤷‍♂️

[Tex]

2 hours ago, Yannie said:

So. Just before I work out what I'm selling to pay for the lotus track exhaust. Is there anywhere I can track the car in the UK with a standard 420 exhaust? I don't mind lifting so I can at least do one session.

You can do Anglesey, with no issue,

Silverstone and Donington are ok so long as you short shift by the noise meters..

There are others but will need to be driveby as unlikely to pass any static tests unless a loud day 

[Bravo73]

8 hours ago, Yannie said:

Thanks!  Could I get away with snetteron too? 105 static then maybe lift? 🤷‍♂️

You won’t get through the initial check at Snetterton. 

[Mitch Foden-Clarke]

10 hours ago, Yannie said:

So. Just before I work out what I'm selling to pay for the lotus track exhaust. Is there anywhere I can track the car in the UK with a standard 420 exhaust? I don't mind lifting so I can at least do one session.

Take a look at these mate it should help with Db figures

Quite a few tracks only test a static reading where they rely upon you to be honest and hold the revs to the amount they’ve asked you to so read into that as you may……

[Mitch Foden-Clarke]

10 hours ago, Yannie said:

So. Just before I work out what I'm selling to pay for the lotus track exhaust. Is there anywhere I can track the car in the UK with a standard 420 exhaust? I don't mind lifting so I can at least do one session.

You could sell a kidney to pay for it 👍😂😂😂

[Yannie]

5 hours ago, Mitch Foden-Clarke said:

Take a look at these mate it should help with Db figures

Thank you so much!

I can't find confident figures on what the stock exhaust is like. I think maybe 103/105 static I've seen and maybe even similar drive by?!

Also. What map is this? Looks quite useful anyway.

[jimichanga]

Castle Combe is no issue on a 105db day. B&C have done several trackdays there, loads if Lotus making loads of noise. There’s another one coming up in August.

Edited June 19, 2022 by jimichanga