UK Politics Thread

[Rambo]

8 minutes ago, eeyoreish said:

Boris could deliver an address convincingly, even if it was thin or bereft of any actual/sensible content...

Really? I thought Boris was one if the biggest bullshitters I think I've ever heard.

Probably OK down the pub on a Friday night with the lads having a few beers and telling yarns and jokes of how many women he's had but anything else...

 

[eeyoreish]

8 minutes ago, Rambo said:

Really? I thought Boris was one if the biggest bullshitters I think I've ever heard

Kind of my point exactly. Regardless of the content (or lack thereof) he could engage and hold an audience. Liz is like one of those people who get up to do a presentation at work and by 5 seconds in you've already lost interest...

[PaulCP]

27 minutes ago, eeyoreish said:

I caught a snippet of her speech on the radio news this afternoon. I can't say that she sounds the least bit Prime Ministerial, there's just no personality, enthusiasm or gravitas coming through.

For all his (many) apparent faults at least Boris could deliver an address convincingly, even if it was thin or bereft of any actual/sensible content...

Many Tory MPs, including some of the ones who supported and voted for her, are saying with that speech she has hastened her demise.

One reported as saying “I sat there with my hands covering my eyes, it was so bad”

[Rambo]

13 minutes ago, eeyoreish said:

Kind of my point exactly. Regardless of the content (or lack thereof) he could engage and hold an audience. Liz is like one of those people who get up to do a presentation at work and by 5 seconds in you've already lost interest...

Gotcha.

I can see tomorrow's headlines in The Sun.... "Liz Truss screwed by Boris"

 

[andydclements]

Thanks @Rambo now I need to have my memory erased, at having ever read those words let alone the visions it led to.

[PaulCP]

Seems another appropriate time to bring this one up again

[910Esprit]

I also think there is also an issue with the media here, endlessly micro-analysing and putting a negative spin on everything.  If there was a story of some 'external actor' influencing the electorate, there would be a massive media bruhaha, but nobody seems to bat an eyelid at the media itself meddling in politics.   Having said that, I think it was wrong to potentially use borrowing to fund tax cuts.   Although I seem to recall that the last Labour government's economic model was also to fund spending from future projected growth, and nobody was too concerned about that - although that didn't end well either!

[Frickin_idiot]

The Conservatives have moved so far away from what I understand to be their core principles. They may have been dealt a bad hand with world events but decades of underinvestment and poor planning has led us to this point. 
 

I agree with the principle of having a low tax economy allowing people to keep more of their money, this however goes hand in hand with restrained spending and sound financial planning. This Tory party throw money around like confetti and have failed to get us back on a sound financial footing whilst the sun was shining.

 

The coffers are empty and we are living beyond our means. IMO we need to reevaluate the role and scope of the state and get used to doing more for ourselves.

[Rambo]

I don't think you can put "Conservatives" and "principles" in the same sentence. It's an oxymoron.

And there's plenty more of them at Westminster and Holyrood 🤔

[PaulCP]

1 hour ago, 910Esprit said:

I also think there is also an issue with the media here, endlessly micro-analysing and putting a negative spin on everything.  

The media in this country are out of control. They  live in the gutters and sewers of society constantly stirring things up by the way in which they report events etc and give a voice to idiotic minorities who would go away if they were not afforded the publicity which the useless media gives them.

off topic but take these “just stop oil” hooligans, not protesters just attention seeking hooligans. They rejoice in the attention given to them by the media.

The next time they glue themselves to a wall just leave them there and provide baskets of eggs & tomatoes for the inconvenienced public to throw at them.

[C8RKH]

It's a lack of respect for Democracy. The party members wanted Truss, the party politicians wanted Sunak.

The politicians were pissed at the members, how dare they back Truss. F😲ck them, we're the Politicians and we're going to screw the members over royally, after all they're just a bunch of Jeremy Hunt's.

So instead of backing, they back stab.

Not saying Truss has played a blinder, but the internal divisions in the Tory party are killing it. People are just losing respect for the whole party.

The exact same behaviour over Brexit.

Cameron, May, Johnson now Truss. All f😜cked over by the back stabbing dark arts master back benchers, ably assisted by institutions like the BBC who are just a joke.

Labour will get in. Starmer and Raynor? Oh f😱ck!  Portugal has a great set of expat packages right now and I'm researching it like crazy.

[Frickin_idiot]

48 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

It's a lack of respect for Democracy. The party members wanted Truss, the party politicians wanted Sunak.

The politicians were pissed at the members, how dare they back Truss. F😲ck them, we're the Politicians and we're going to screw the members over royally, after all they're just a bunch of Jeremy Hunt's.

So instead of backing, they back stab.

Not saying Truss has played a blinder, but the internal divisions in the Tory party are killing it. People are just losing respect for the whole party.

The exact same behaviour over Brexit.

Cameron, May, Johnson now Truss. All f😜cked over by the back stabbing dark arts master back benchers, ably assisted by institutions like the BBC who are just a joke.

Labour will get in. Starmer and Raynor? Oh f😱ck!  Portugal has a great set of expat packages right now and I'm researching it like crazy.

Despite Labour having a truly uninspiring leader, I am confident that the Tories will receive an electoral battering similar to 1997, if not worse.

The cost of living crisis coupled with major increases in mortgage costs will bite, and bite hard. People won’t forget this in a hurry.

[PaulCP]

I do fear what type of PM Starmer would be with that aggressive Barbie doll by his side and how the markets would react to a Labour govt.

However, Starmer gave his most sensible and honest speech yet (or probably his only sensible one) last week when he told Labour MPs “we have been gifted an opportunity, an opportunity which I never thought would happen,, so don’t ruin it by starting any infighting within the Labour movement”

[C8RKH]

Good quote @PaulCP but unfortunately Starmer is a weak, insipid, uninspiring leader and he will have been ejected by Barbie long before he gets the keys to Number 10.

@Frickin_idiot, as Dr. kildare would say, "I concur". However, your sentiment that people will not forget in a hurry seems to imply that the current state we are in is purely down to the government. It isn't. It's down to a complex set of geopolitical issues, a pandemic, peoples greed (yes, voters are as much to blame for feasting on cheap credit), and over the past couple of months a stupidly presented "mini budget" - only that last one is a government own goal.

It's a shame that people will forget what the Government has done for them during COVID (furlough and small business support), the massive uplift in NHS Spending, the energy bill support etc.  All of that good has been squandered by a Conservative Party, not Government, that is behaving like a bunch of over pampered, over indulged, self important, arrogant, public school morons!

I don't mind a Labour Government. After all Blair's first terms weren't too bad to be honest and New Labour had good ideas, if not great execution. But the lot we have in the Labour Party right now - Starmer, Raynor, Miliband, etc. My god. Really, is that the best we can come up with?  

[Frickin_idiot]

I agree. Successive governments have truly failed to get our finances in order. This Tory government truly, genuinely believe that every problem that we have involves throwing money around like it’s going out of fashion. 

Our issues with energy is, yes, partially a result of geopolitical events but also a catastrophic dereliction of duty with a complete failure to have a coherent energy policy for over a third of a century (if not more).

We have an ever increasing state that believes it needs to cater for, and indeed, intrude into every area of our life taking more and more responsibility upon it’s shoulders. Whatever happened to personal responsibility?

We have manoeuvred ourselves, as a country, into a position where we have very little wiggle room. 

46 minutes ago, PaulCP said:

I do fear what type of PM Starmer would be with that aggressive Barbie doll by his side and how the markets would react to a Labour govt.

However, Starmer gave his most sensible and honest speech yet (or probably his only sensible one) last week when he told Labour MPs “we have been gifted an opportunity, an opportunity which I never thought would happen,, so don’t ruin it by starting any infighting within the Labour movement”

I’m sure that they will be as disastrous and incompetent as the current administration. Whoever takes over has a difficult task at hand. The Conservatives are running around like headless chickens trying to put out fires - they certainly won’t be thanked for it. 

[C8RKH]

Again, I mostly agree @Frickin_idiot, but let us also remember that when the Conservatives won and came to power 12 years or so ago, the country had been left, by Labour, a complete and total financial farce of a basket case. Remember the note from The Treasury proudly, and totally unashamedly, proclaiming that the cupboards had all been emptied? This after Brown had totally screwed up our gold reserves and EVERY private pension in the UK when Chancellor - his reward? Well, of course, he was promoted to PM!  At least Truss has sacked her useless Chancellor

As for an ever increasing state, try coming up and living here in Scotland. We've had ten years of the SNP banging on about Tory Austerity whilst the SNP have been systematically starving Local Authorities of funding as they have been pulling more and more back to "central" government control.

[Frickin_idiot]

14 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

Again, I mostly agree @Frickin_idiot, but let us also remember that when the Conservatives won and came to power 12 years or so ago, the country had been left, by Labour, a complete and total financial farce of a basket case. Remember the note from The Treasury proudly, and totally unashamedly, proclaiming that the cupboards had all been emptied? This after Brown had totally screwed up our gold reserves and EVERY private pension in the UK when Chancellor - his reward? Well, of course, he was promoted to PM!  At least Truss has sacked her useless Chancellor

As for an ever increasing state, try coming up and living here in Scotland. We've had ten years of the SNP banging on about Tory Austerity whilst the SNP have been systematically starving Local Authorities of funding as they have been pulling more and more back to "central" government control.

I live in Wales and all our poxy government ever talk about is providing increases services. They never focus on getting the economy moving and getting more money in peoples pockets.

[Rambo]

Do you think when Mark Drakeford screws Wales forever it will get any better?

Same goes for the mess Scotland is in 🙁

Gordon Brown has a lot to answer for. Agree with @C8RKH

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11317867/Growing-fears-Gordon-Browns-pensions-timebomb-finally-explode.html?ito=native_share_article-masthead

[C8RKH]

Excellent piece of journalism that @Rambo. Thanks for sharing and highlights that it is not just the "Tories" who can dream and commit financial follies.

The problem for me, is that from what I can see, the average MSP has about 1/10th the intelligence, aptitude, and experience of the average MP (I know, a low reference point to start from as it is) and I truly believe that if we do vote for Independence here then the gates of hell will be firmly swung open, unleashing the hounds of fury to way everything before them to waste.   

I believe this so much, that I am currently spending thousands on my home, completing all the jobs I've started and wanted to start, to get it ready to immediately go on the market the day that we are informed that we have voted for Independence.

Funny thing is, that a lot of others who are like me, high taxpayers but job means I do not have to live in Scotland, are thinking about doing the same. So a double hit as the top 9% earners in Scotland contribute over 65% of the income tax return. So that is 400,000 adults, out of 4,600,000 adults, who are contributing the most! You don't need to lose too many of those 400,000 people before you get a huge deficit building up in your tax take, and also, these same 400,000 are likely to be the biggest spenders driving the local economy too. So a triple hit.

According to the Governments (Scottish) own figures there are 4.6m adults in Scotland, but only 2.5m of them pay any tax at all, meaning 45% of the adult population in Scotland does not pay Income Tax 

So to keep on topic, Boris may be screwed, but frankly, so are many of the rest of us!

 

[Alfa2Evora]

5 hours ago, C8RKH said:

.............. Portugal has a great set of expat packages right now and I'm researching it like crazy.

Andy, just remember who's already got an 'escape into blissful exile' bolt-hole over there - you could end up as neighbours! 

[Frickin_idiot]

46 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

Excellent piece of journalism that @Rambo. Thanks for sharing and highlights that it is not just the "Tories" who can dream and commit financial follies.

The problem for me, is that from what I can see, the average MSP has about 1/10th the intelligence, aptitude, and experience of the average MP (I know, a low reference point to start from as it is) and I truly believe that if we do vote for Independence here then the gates of hell will be firmly swung open, unleashing the hounds of fury to way everything before them to waste.   

I believe this so much, that I am currently spending thousands on my home, completing all the jobs I've started and wanted to start, to get it ready to immediately go on the market the day that we are informed that we have voted for Independence.

Funny thing is, that a lot of others who are like me, high taxpayers but job means I do not have to live in Scotland, are thinking about doing the same. So a double hit as the top 9% earners in Scotland contribute over 65% of the income tax return. So that is 400,000 adults, out of 4,600,000 adults, who are contributing the most! You don't need to lose too many of those 400,000 people before you get a huge deficit building up in your tax take, and also, these same 400,000 are likely to be the biggest spenders driving the local economy too. So a triple hit.

According to the Governments (Scottish) own figures there are 4.6m adults in Scotland, but only 2.5m of them pay any tax at all, meaning 45% of the adult population in Scotland does not pay Income Tax 

So to keep on topic, Boris may be screwed, but frankly, so are many of the rest of us!

 

The problem for Wales is that we have had a massive brain drain - the lack of quality job opportunities has seen to that. The more leave, the more deprived that the areas that they have left become. The more  high skilled people leave, the less likely high values jobs will relocate to the area. It’s the complete opposite of the virtuous circle. 

 

 

[Rambo]

@C8RKH I am a lower taxpaying OAP and, as much as I love Scotland (I've lived here for 49 years!) I'm heading south too the minute they rename us "Sturgeonland" and her face is on every poster, coin and stamp 🙁

I'm afraid a once, very great country is quickly heading down the tubes (insert already has headed!)

Some call me cynical. I prefer to be called a realist.

[C8RKH]

I'm with you @Rambo. I love living here but the decline in the 26 years that I have been here is truly alarming. I am also getting sick of the nationalist name calling - I was called a traitor by a woman in Tesco's as she saw I had "english" sparkling water at the checkout!  Couldn't believe and was pissed off anyway as the "Tesco Perthshire" sparkling water was out stock and the english was 12p more expensive!  

When shit like that starts to happen I start to think I'll take myself and my hard earned somewhere else....

[Rambo]

What I can't understand is the so called "hatred laws" Sturgeon has muscled in during the Covid years. The biggest irony (and worry) is that, first and foremost, Sturgeon hates the English and everything they stand for. She is breeding hatred and the concomitant intoletant and toxic society !

Power to our 315 year Union.

[910Esprit]

I'm not convinced there will be a Labour landslide at the next election, certainly the most recent by-elections do not suggest that.   There was little swing to Labour and a lot of pissed of Tories seemed to veer towards the Libdems.   (Speaking of which, I can't understand why the Libdems are pretty much absent from the media these days, If I was them, I'd also be sticking the boot in and coming up with some sort of compelling offering....).

Unlike Andy, I'll wager Starmer will lead Labour into the next election.   He may be dull as ditchwater, but he was the architect and successfully steered the party from left wing obscurity back to the central ground with a real shot of election victory.  Not sure that has been a demonstration of scruples, but it was an achievement against much internal opposition.