Hamas terrorist attacks on Israel

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

I can see the Gaza Strip being effectively wiped off the map in the coming weeks. If Hamas wants to live like Medieval tyrants, then they can die like them too, as far as I am concerned. Let the siege commence.

[Bibs]

It's awful that the targets on both sides are civilians, I am very glad it's not where I live and I agree, it's going to be carnage there as they've really rattled a hornets nest with yesterdays' attack. 

[Mark Blanchard]

I notice the oil price up 4% today.  Petrol prices will follow.  Lets hope it's not a repeat of the Yom Kippur War (Israeli vs Arabs), where the US fell out with the Saudi's over it and caused the energy crisis and inflation of the 1970s.  The US is on better terms with some Arab states.

[Escape]

I'm surprised Hamas was able to penetrate the defenses with what seemed like relative ease. For one thing, that means they no doubt had help from Iran or such. But I also wonder if some pulling the strings in Israel see it as an opportunity and were willing to let things escalate just to be able to strike back hard. I know, I'm too much of a cynic...

[C8RKH]

Netanyahu, to be fair, has not been a hard liner when it comes to retaliating with extreme prejudice in the past. However, this time, I doubt he had any choice.

So we have Russia using up US/NATO ammunition and focus in Ukraine.

We have Iran using up US ammunition and focus in Israel.

Who wants to bet me £20 that China's "military games" around Taiwan turn into a full scale takeover?  After all, can the US support a fight on three fronts right now, especially with a lame duck President in the chair?

The tide is turning, and after 70 years of US domination of world affairs, a new partnership is vying to take over the reigns.

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

Well Netanyahu knows all about hostage-taking. His brother led the raid on Entebbe after the 1976 airliner hijacking and lost his life in doing so. I can’t see him going softly softly.

The Hamas end game seems similar this time. Kill and kidnap civilians in the hope that they can blackmail Israel into releasing hundreds of Palestinian prisoners. 

[C8RKH]

I've no idea what the Hamas end game is to be honest. But I do believe they have just handed the initiative to Israel, and Israel will, with extreme prejudice, exact retribution and the fires of hell itself will rain down on Hamas (and unfortunately many hundreds, if not thousands, of innocents).

It's all so sad.

And, whilst I have the utmost sympathy for the Israeli's, and many friends in Israel I have been in contact with over the past 2 days, let us not forget the appalling acts of "terrorism" Israel have undertaken with their expansionist policies that have seen Palestinian homes torn down by tanks, illegal Israeli expansion and the building of settlements etc.

This is a 75 year war of attrition and both sides are guilty of some horrendous acts.

[Kimbers]

TBH most of the Arab world is currently against Hamas as its the worlds worst kept secret that Iran was directly involved in this. And TBH the more progressive Arab countries like UAE, Saudi, Jordan etc etc are all anti Iran. 

The only thing that may cause an issue is Israel's response. If they literally wipe out Gaza and West Bank civilians then it could escalate.

However that being said we don't have any right to preach to them about their response. Look at what we did after 9-11.

[Kimbers]

Just heard some guy on the BBC say "It's awful what has happened in Israel BUT they have been an Apartheid style country with unproportionate responses to every little attack".

Oh Wow! I thought. An extreme view from some Jewish hating member of the public.

It was a bloody Labour MP.

[exeterjeep]

20 minutes ago, Kimbers said:

It was a bloody Labour MP.

Not for the first time.

[Mark Blanchard]

3 hours ago, exeterjeep said:

Not for the first time.

[Bibs]

Hamas were beheading babies and raping women when they attacked according to today's reports. Savages deserve all they get IMO.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-middle-east-67050350

[TAR]

Unfortunately, the innocent suffer because of the acts of both sides in this political struggle. It's been going on for a long time and doesn't look like it'll come to a peaceful conclusion anytime soon  

[Kimbers]

11 hours ago, TAR said:

Unfortunately, the innocent suffer because of the acts of both sides in this political struggle. It's been going on for a long time and doesn't look like it'll come to a peaceful conclusion anytime soon  

But it was getting much closer before this attack. Hamas were basically losing the Political argument with many Arab states like Saudi, Qatar, UAE etc all signing up to mutual agreements with Israel whether it be through trade or recognising their state. Hamas could not have done this alone and its pretty obvious who is really behind it and who wants the pressure off themselves and their failed state!

[C8RKH]

14 hours ago, Bibs said:

Hamas were beheading babies and raping women when they attacked according to today's reports. Savages deserve all they get IMO.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-middle-east-67050350

I suppose that's more humane than burying the babies to the necks and kicking/hitting their heads off.

It's bloody awful and unthinkable what people can, and do, do.

HAMAS is an awful organisation, but don't lose sight of the fact that not every Palestinian is a terrorist and it's innocents on both sides who are being targeted and killed.

It's just so sad and largely of Britain's and the UN's doing in terms of the 75 year struggles and fights.

[JimmytheTurbo]

On 10/10/2023 at 06:59, Escape said:

I'm surprised Hamas was able to penetrate the defenses with what seemed like relative ease.

What like they were let in perhaps? 

No way in hell they could have gotten through with out being let in.

Men on motor bikes and  paragliding in???

Their border is watched 24/7 and they stand to when pigeons land there...let alone anyone trying to cross.

 

[Kimbers]

So glad to just hear Naga Munchetty correct a "Human Rights Specialist" who just totally made up quotes from Israel. She said "The Israeli Government calling the Palestinian civilians Animals".

"Actually we have fact checked it and they have only ever said that about the Palestinian fighters. We have people here who fact check things and I have to stress that"

"Oh yes, well, that needs to be done"

What I really don't understand is how anyone can even try and justify this?

[Escape]

47 minutes ago, JimmytheTurbo said:

What like they were let in perhaps? 

No way in hell they could have gotten through with out being let in.

Men on motor bikes and  paragliding in???

Their border is watched 24/7 and they stand to when pigeons land there...let alone anyone trying to cross.

 

Maybe not let in, but it is a known military tactic (as in Sun Tsu's The Art of War) to present the enemy with an opportunity to lure him in an unfavorable position and use his momentum against him. The (vicious) attack has cost Hamas a lot of support, while Israel is justified in defending itself. I'm sure they hope this will enable them to attain some strategic goals that were of limits before.

The tragedy is, this isn't a strategy game, innocent people on both sides are paying the price...

[Kimbers]

Not sure the BBC can justify this
 

BBC defends policy not to call Hamas 'terrorists'

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

On 10/10/2023 at 09:25, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

The Hamas end game seems similar this time. Kill and kidnap civilians in the hope that they can blackmail Israel into releasing hundreds of Palestinian prisoners. 

Channel 4 News interviewed this Hamas spokesman last night. I found the section from 23 mins 10 seconds to 23 mins 50 seconds regarding the hostages/prisoners telling.

https://www.channel4.com/news/palestinians-were-being-killed-for-70-years-by-the-israelis-says-hamas-spokesman
 

[Kimbers]

I am not denying the issues in Israel and Palestine however.............

However one thing is very certain, they may have had issues for 70 years but anti semitism and the killing of the Jewish people has been happening for thousands of years. From Egypt to Roman times and all the way forward to WW2 and beyond.

Even here in Norwich they recently found a well that was full of skeletons. Turned out to be Jewish people from the 12th century who were "purged" and included men woman and children.

Is it any wonder that as a people they react like they do when threatened or attacked?

I am proud of the small part that is my Ashkenazi Jewish heritage. 

[JimmytheTurbo]

4 hours ago, Escape said:

has cost Hamas a lot of support, while Israel is justified in defending itself. 

Seems to me a many people are not as happy as Israel may have hoped about them killing the innocent people of Gaza for what those of Hamas have done.

 

4 hours ago, Escape said:

Maybe not let in, but it is a known military tactic

Just Like USA done in the Gulf of Tonkin to allow USA to become involved in the Vietnam Conflict.

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

13 minutes ago, Kimbers said:

Even here in Norwich they recently found a well that was full of skeletons. Turned out to be Jewish people from the 12th century who were "purged" and included men woman and children.

[C8RKH]

1 hour ago, Kimbers said:

However one thing is very certain, they may have had issues for 70 years but anti semitism and the killing of the Jewish people has been happening for thousands of years. From Egypt to Roman times and all the way forward to WW2 and beyond.

And you would have thought that after experiencing such treatment they may be more tolerant to others? 

The Palestinians (not HAMAS) are refugees. A people without a state, in large part due to Israel, Egypt and Jordan invading Gaza, the West Bank etc and further displacing them. The region was split into two, to provide a state and home for the Jews, namely Israel, and a state and home for the Palestinians.  However, after the invasions the Palestinian people had nowhere to go. They have been systemically displaced from their homes (by Jewish settlers protected by soldiers and tanks when the Palestinians were civilians being turfed out of their homes) and have been left stateless and impoverished. Israel has been ruthless in its treatment of them and the likening to an apartheid situation is not far from the truth.

None of this is in any way a justification for what HAMAS, who I would regard as a terrorist organisation in the mould of ISIS, has done. But let us remember that Israel has killed thousands of Palestinian civilians over the years and has targeted, just like Putin in Ukraine, civilian infrastructure and civilian habitats, and like Putin, they are in contravention of UN Human Rights and refuse to accept it!

To be clear, what has happened in Israel is appalling, but I fear, it has been coming for some time.

This will be a huge test for the middle eastern states in terms of how they respond, immediately, and in the future.

[TAR]

@C8RKH I completely agree with your post above.

With so much hatred between both groups, it is somewhat inevitable that the evil is justified in the minds of those who commit it. They are both fighting for what they feel is theirs by right.