Esprit Market Watch

[Chillidoggy]

People are looking to put their money into classic cars, hence it's worth keeping them in good condition.

[Bazza 907]

I don't think that we do ourselves any favours when we are outraged by somebody asking a couple of grand more than the last one was advertised/sold(?) for.

Paul

I suspect the problem is that it is percieved currently not roadworthy by dint of it not having an MOT. I'd either get it revalued post MOT or try a different valuer/insurance company. I use Classic Line and have had no problem with getting agreed valuations that some on here would simply not believe.

[Andyww]

I think if the Esprit had ended at the end of Guigaro car production, the G-cars would be worth a whole lot more than they are.

[Barrykearley]

Doesn't work like that with the porkers though - maybe it's dos they still look the same ? Defies logic......

Maybe lotus should make some more .......values might increase more

[Barrykearley]

What???!!!

[Andyww]

At the Bonhams auction last week 3 Ferrari 308 toolkits were sold for the price of a decent Esprit. Bonkers!

http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/22723/?category=results#/MR0_length=10&w0=list&k0=104&m0=0

Lots 104-106

At these prices the tool and jack kits in the boot of my 328 are together worth the same as my Esprit!

[Mark Blanchard]

Another example of the Classic car market going nuts. I spoke to a classic car collector the other day and asked him why Esprit values haven't risen in line with other classics. He said its because the market thinks they're unreliable. And it seems to have been ingrained into people's minds after years of bad press from the motoring magazines and car programs.

Not to say our cars are unreliable, but I can think of plenty of unreliable classic cars that have risen sharply; the Jenson Interceptor, Ferrari 275 and De Tomaso Pantera (dodgy trans and rust) to name a few.

[Barrykearley]

Sell them Andy sell them.

Then off to the shops for another esprit!!!

[Andyww]

The basic problem is history. Mr Chapman was a brilliant engineer and quite a good marketeer but what he was terrible at was brand image. Enzo got that right.

For example selling the Elan as a kit to save purchase tax was a huge mistake. Penny-pinching on quality of components with easily-identifiable fittings such as Marina door-handles. That is actually good engineering, why design something specially when there is an item which works off the shelf? But terrible branding. If you look at the interior fittings and switches on a Ferrari 328 not one single part is borrowed from any other car (which incidentally means a mirror switch costs £500). Reason being they knew that the moment any journalist matched any part with a Fiat etc, that would get into every single review.

Making everything as light as possible is also good engineering but when for example you have Europa wings which are so thin they start cracking owing to stones being thrown up from wheels thats taking things too far.

In the 70s and 80s Lotus had two basic principles (according to the late Graham Arnold) namely:

Cut costs wherever possible by using the cheapest possible parts

As long as the car gets part warranty, thats reliable enough.

Maybe these principles enabled them to survive but long-term this left a terrible legacy.

[Barrykearley]

Andy - spot on.

And thanks to Mr chapman we now have accessable, affordable classic cars with sublime looks and handling. The lotus guys got it all spot on - the faults / failings are part of the brand in reality. Folks still go after classic Alfa - and they were 10x worse than anything lotus has put out.

No matter what your view - cars handle superbly, drive well and make the owner smile like a village idiot on lemonade!!

[GTK]

.... He said its because the market thinks they're unreliable....

What do the owners say? From my own interest I've searched for anything about reliability on here and even when someone straight asks the question, little if anything is said. So whats the story, is it a case of Lotus didn't build them so great but a well rebuilt car is a viable driver, or are they just inherently highly strung?

[Barrykearley]

Andy - reading into the spec on the 328 - the esprit was quicker, less made - but did it cost about the same ?? Be honest which one would you prefer to take out and which one makes you smile the most.

George. Since owning mine it's been well behaved. It's had some niggles, which I bought it with, these are now, mostly, ironed out and it's been hugely enjoyable. It was stood for 8 years which certainly would not have been helpful. Touching wood - mine seems as reliable now as any other car. Mine however is fuel injected so I don't have carb issues which from reading causes a lot of issues - especially when only used intermittently with little mileage per year.

[mdw]

They were not built fantasticly IMO but then chuck in 25 years of penny pinching tight assed owners not willing to pay what it costs or learn how to diy it.   However sort one properly and I would imagine they can be as reliable as any other car.   My only breakdown recovery was due to about the only bit on the car I had not repaired/ replaced ( the dizzy and amp) new dizzy on and car runs fine.

[Sparky]

Malcolm, so bloody true.  Nothing significantly wrong with these vehicles in terms of reliability.  I've had Esprits for 8 years, with just one breakdown - an alternator.  Granted I'm fortunate enough to be able to do all my own labour, but I NEVER penny-pinch on parts.  You reap what you - or previous owners - sow.

[Andyww]

I used to commute into central London in my dry-sump Esprit which I owned from almost new. It never let me down but I did spend a lot of time doing pre-emptive maintenance. 

I did manage to catch a melting alternator just in time otherwise that would have had me stranded.

[Bazza 907]

Owned Esprits for 25 years (including one for all those 25 years) and only ever had one breakdown.

They are as reliable if not more reliable than 'ordinary' cars assuming that they are looked after/serviced properly. 

[Andyww]

Andy - reading into the spec on the 328 - the esprit was quicker, less made - but did it cost about the same ?? Be honest which one would you prefer to take out and which one makes you smile the most.

 

George. Since owning mine it's been well behaved. It's had some niggles, which I bought it with, these are now, mostly, ironed out and it's been hugely enjoyable. It was stood for 8 years which certainly would not have been helpful. Touching wood - mine seems as reliable now as any other car. Mine however is fuel injected so I don't have carb issues which from reading causes a lot of issues - especially when only used intermittently with little mileage per year.

I think the Turbo Esprit was slightly more than the 328 at the time. This was a big ask as the build and component quality of the 328 is undeniably far better. The 328 is a very tough act to beat as its the perfect car design. Stunning looks which sacrifice nothing in terms of maintainability or ease of use (for example rear visibility). The Esprit is equally stunning but has many more compromises.

In the winter I prefer driving the Esprit and summer the 328 with the roof off. In the garage I enjoy working on the Esprit but the 328 is sublime to work on. Every moment spent doing stuff on it is immensely rewarding because its such a design masterpiece in engineering terms as well as visually. 

I posted more about the comparison here:  

http://www.thelotusforums.com/forums/topic/62801-esprit-picture-thread/page-21#entry538542

[BC007]

In ten years of ownership my Esprit has been super reliable. It failed to start on just one occasion due to a small electrical fault which was inexpensive to rectify.

If there's a perceived reliability issue with Lotus cars which is affecting values why are the early Elite and Elan's doing so well?

Brendan

[Mark Blanchard]

I've owned my Esprit and it's never broken down in 13 years of ownership. I think the problem is perceived reliability problems. And the fact that the 1970s Esprit did have reliability problems, with tales of drive shaft UJ failures and chassis rot. By the 1980s the problems had been sorted out with the S3 and Turbo Esprit.

[rudolphwolven]

Well...........,

I have my Turbo '90 SE for 22 years now and it never left me stranded, except one time when the turbo was damaged during "duelling" with some other make of sportscar; I could drive it home with a max. of 50 mph.......I instantly felt it was my fault and forgave the SE...........the repair cost with a re-manufactured one were very acceptable.

Entering the car is rewarded every time with the beautiful leather smell exactly as it was already 22 years ago; before starting you are already drugged with the loveliest drug in the world.......

I had some minor things mainly electrically; the door locking (1 time) and the up/down of the side windows for instance; I dismantled the system 3 times and everything worked again; now I have found out/learned that smashing the door while keeping the downside of the switch depressed the system comes alive immediately and it works again for a long time...........this worked for me 2-3 times already all those years.

I am extremely happy with my Lotus, regularly parking it on a motorway-parking place and smoking a fine cigar, while sitting on the always available banks while admiring my SE; sometimes standing up and walking around the car to look from different angles; sometimes walking away to look at it from a longer distance or bowing my knees to look from the backside to see how any other car will observe the low profile.......

I cannot afford it to behave such a way at home because the neighborhood  will believe that I am not of my mind......... 

The SE always attracts people and the number of "small talks" with them on the parking place are numerous; I did return home pretty late a couple of times.

Oh, what a car my SE, it is a real loving part of my live.............

I am 72 years old now and I hope that once my son will drive it and keep it as long as possible..........I have the feeling that at that time it will have the higher value we all are desiring so much now.........

wkr, Ruud

[Chillidoggy]

I would cite lack of pre-emptive maintenance, lack of money to buy the proper parts, and bodged repairs, where owners (or garages) simply cannot be bothered, or cannot afford to fix things properly. But lack of easy access for maintenance is probably the top of the pile.

I estimate it's going to cost me a couple of grand a year to keep my Esprit in good condition.

[Sparky]

That's exactly the number I tell people.

[Barrykearley]

A couple of grand? Stop it my wife might read this......

Costs nothing like it..... Car gets what it needs ..... Everything's a tenner

Shhhhhhhhh

[Chillidoggy]

Yup, that's what I reckon it's going to cost as an average for everything maintenance and replacement parts.

As for what you tell the wife, just remember it's easier to beg for forgiveness, than ask for permission!

[mdw]

On other point I would make is I have had very little done to the car by "specialists" that I am happy with and some bits were down right shoddy work, almost like the YTS lad was set loose on it.