Is electric really the answer?

[Kimbers]

Funny you should say that mate. My driveway this morning  Experience Green is Wendys

 

[Kimbers]

The PHEV range is increasing as well with no addition of extra batteries, weight etc. 5 years ago most PHEV's had between 15-22 miles range. 2 years ago my Kia Xceed had 28 miles, the Dark Grey Sportage above has 38 miles and the Silver one, which is a brand new 23 plate has 42 miles. 

This has allowed me to pretty much use Electric most of the time and the Dark Grey one has done 79mpg over 7000 miles. It was 121mpg over 5000 but lots of long distance work in the last 2000 miles....and not hanging around.....has knocked that unfortunately.

Take into account that these beasts weigh a couple of tons and that they do 0-60 in 7 seconds, more than enough for every day and any use and you can get one like Wendys for under £30k. What a car! We love them.

[C8RKH]

@Kimbers so you can get three of them for the price of a new Lotus electric SUV? Why would you ever buy the Lotus Electric SUV?

Can you tow with a PHEV?  You probably can with an EV but wouldn't as the range would probably drop to two streets wouldn't it?

[Kimbers]

Yes mate, you can tow. 1350kg tow weight due to the heavy duty rear axle

And actually these 3 added together were cheaper than the Lotus EV. I'd also get a Picanto or Rio brand new in the mix.

[Bibs]

The tow capacity of EV's is based on the quality/capacity of the regen braking to deal with the extra weight. My Kia e-Niro is not rated to tow anything at all! 

[exeterjeep]

21 minutes ago, Kimbers said:

And actually these 3 added together were cheaper than the Lotus EV. I'd also get a Picanto or Rio brand new in the mix.

Could have a fleet of ORA funky cats at 32k each for the price of Eletre R. Showed pics of the ORA to the guy at Hendy who had not heard of them. Will be appearing in Exeter at the end of March, probably in the Merc/Smart dealer.

Also see that Tesla have reduced their prices again...

https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/tesla-takes-the-axe-to-prices-of-new-cars-again/280814

The price differences are being  squeezed between the 'low' cost Chinese cars and Tesla.

[Bibs]

55 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

so you can get three of them for the price of a new Lotus electric SUV?

Apples & pears of course. You could get a thousand of these for the same price or a third of a Ferrari, or a 20 year old Lambo. Or lots of apples and pears. Not the same customer, not the same proposition etc and not one person considering buying a £90-100k SUV would replace it with 3 cheaper ones.

PS Points if you know what that is^

[C8RKH]

I get it @Bibs but I just don't see the point in splashing that much cash on a utility vehicle which is what an SUV is. Bit like people who spend £130k on LR Defenders or £150k+ on a Range Rover. Bonkers. But it is their cash so their choice.

That by the way is a Scottish Aviation Scamp (the small one). The big one is a Routemaster is it not?.

Points mean prizes. What's my prize?  (I am assuming it is that I get to sit in the corner and whip my back with a studded belt?)

[exeterjeep]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Aviation_Scamp

I'd rather have the Routemaster.

@C8RKH just beat me to it.

[C8RKH]

As long as the Routemaster does not come with Cliff Richard, that would be my choice too....

[C8RKH]

I see that Tesla announced further price cuts to it's range yesterday globally. In the UK the savings are on Model 3 and Y which I would have thought to be their biggest sellers anyway?

I think other makers, particularly, but not exclusively, KIA, are bringing out such great PHEV/EV's that the shine on Tesla has somewhat wore off. I think it also shows just how "overpriced" many EV's have been to date as manufacturers specifically honed in on "premium" buyers and Audi and Mercedes now have strong offers there too and BMW is catching up quickly too.

[ChrisJ]

My preference is for an HEV over a PHEV, why have an engine that can't talk to the battery when it is sitting next to it - you don't have to have the charging facility at your house either.

Although I'm a bit confused about the Mazda MX-30 R-EV - described as a Plug-in Hybrid like no other.

Quote

Driven purely by its electric motor, it offers uninterrupted electric driving excitement with Mazda-unique handling. Cover your daily drive in fully electric, and take longer journeys with no need to plan additional charging stops along the way.

and below this is states

Quote

Refined by Mazda for over 50 years, the Rotary engine is the ideal petrol-powered engine to maintain the electric charge in a vehicle that is exclusively powered by an electric motor. It combines the benefits of being lightweight, nearly vibration free and, since it doesn’t power the wheels directly, it can always run at the ideal load speed for optimal efficiency.

So it has an onboard ICE to charge the battery - so is a hybrid not a plug-in hybrid?

A bit later

Quote

The Mazda MX-30 R-EV is a plug-in hybrid vehicle (PHEV) unlike any other. Like a battery-electric vehicle (BEV), the wheels are driven exclusively by electric motors. However, unlike other PHEVs, the petrol engine doesn't power the wheels directly, but acts as a generator to charge the battery. That means you can enjoy uninterrupted electric propulsion wherever you go.

There is a plug-in charging cable, but why would you.

This is the sort of PHEV I'd like to see more of.

Apart from that - it's a bit of a crap design, as the suicide rear doors can only be opened if the front door is open, there is very little room in the back and is quite claustrophobic. 

[MPx]

1 hour ago, C8RKH said:

or £150k+ on a Range Rover. Bonkers.

My SVA would have been north of £150 when new (I bought at 4 years old).  Why - because its a lovely place to be and awesomely capable of doing anything I want (and much more).  IMO its the best car in the world and cheap enough given that label... 

[C8RKH]

But you didn't spend £150k on it did you, which was the point I was making, i.e. that spending £150k on a van (all be it a posh van with a stonking engine and lots of toys) was bonkers.  

Also, buying at £150k new, knowing you will get back around £75k after 4 years is, to me, just bonkers too (not that you did that). So that's a loss of £20k a year as near as damn it.

Madness. But each to their own.

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

1 hour ago, ChrisJ said:

My preference is for an HEV over a PHEV, why have an engine that can't talk to the battery when it is sitting next to it - you don't have to have the charging facility at your house either.

Although I'm a bit confused about the Mazda MX-30 R-EV - described as a Plug-in Hybrid like no other.

and below this is states

So it has an onboard ICE to charge the battery - so is a hybrid not a plug-in hybrid?

A bit later

There is a plug-in charging cable, but why would you.

This is the sort of PHEV I'd like to see more of.

Apart from that - it's a bit of a crap design, as the suicide rear doors can only be opened if the front door is open, there is very little room in the back and is quite claustrophobic. 

Wasn’t this the old “range extender” thing from a decade ago or so?

Lotus has been there already:

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/lotus/evora/first-drives/lotus-evora-414e-hybrid

 

[MPx]

3 hours ago, C8RKH said:

Madness. But each to their own.

My observed rule of thumb for the vast majority of cars is that they will halve their value every 3 years.  Yes I know there are exceptions but nearly all of us buy cars that fit that profile.  Your conclusion ... its bonkers to buy a car.  In practice its just as mad to loose £15k on a £30k car as it is £75k on a £150k car - just says something about your attitude to spending and available means - but very little about the car.   Personally I prefer to spend my time in somewhere thats a nice place to be.  Which is why I have the Rangie and use it a lot.  A mate of mine has some lovely cars in his fleet, but actually spends most of his time in a horrible scroat of a car which does mega MPG "and costs him nothing".  Sort of understandable except he's also paid out to own (and not use) the lovely cars - now that's madness!      

[C8RKH]

I agree, spending the money and not using them is utter madness.

But then  you also must agree with me, slightly, as you didn't splash £150k on your RR SV, instead you splashed probably around just over half of that, and that's perfectly fine as a huge chunk of the depreciation has already been taken by the previous owner.

There's no harm in me thinking that losing £20k a year for 4 years is bonkers. It is to me. But if it is not to someone else then that is fine too. At the end of the day it is your own money, and just like customising cars, it's your car. So if you like it/fancy it then buy it and do it without bothering about if someone else thinks it's bonkers.

[pete]

As @ChrisJ I don't see why self charging hybrids aren't more popular, am I missing something

[Bibs]

A third of all the miles I've done have been using energy from regen, it does make an awful lot of sense. 

[Kimbers]

On 08/03/2023 at 13:21, ChrisJ said:

My preference is for an HEV over a PHEV, why have an engine that can't talk to the battery when it is sitting next to it - you don't have to have the charging facility at your house either.

My Sportage totally talks to the battery, I have a switch with 3 settings, Pure EV, Auto (talks to it) and Hybrid modes. Hybrid it is exactly an HEV. Except unlike your HEV if I am doing less than 40 miles I switch it on pure EV and use no fuel. 

Secondly I don't have a charger at home. I have an outdoor 3 DIN plus and the same as everyone does with their Lotus Battery, I trickle charge the EV batteries. takes about 6 hours and costs about £1 for the full charge which will get me 42 miles with no fuel use.

Why would you have an HEV over a PHEV when it does the same but more!

[ChrisJ]

Interesting - that is not what the dealer said when we bought out Niro 9 months ago - new new version, either:

1. Pure EV
2. PHEV - battery & ICE - don't talk to one another, Once battery empty, that's it, becomes dead weight.
3. HEV - battery & ICE, ICE charges the battery

 

 

[ChrisJ]

Interesting video re Lithium.

 

[C8RKH]

According to the Kia website you are correct re the PHEV @ChrisJ, it even has a working schematic to show that they don't talk.

[Kimbers]

On Pure hybrid mode it operates exactly the same as my wifes HEV. Charging the battery and using it alternately. Is that not what you asked? 

Yes its a manual switch over and defaults to EV. But the way round that is to switch it to HEV on long distances because if you leave it on EV mode it uses all the electric and then you have nowt for supporting the engine on acceleration etc. 

But on HEV mode I always end up with as much or more Electric than when I left so its constantly recharging it.

[Mark Blanchard]

Supporting what you're saying Kimbers.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/21737326/electric-drivers-face-struggle-sell-their-cars/