Is electric really the answer?

[Gashead1105]

Sadly, the exige is now up for sale with Silverstone and will be replaced with an EV in due course. It will be the second family car, used for short/medium distance journeys at most. A salary sacrifice scheme seems to be the way to go if offered by ones employer - unless I'm missing something the car comes fully taxed, maintained and insured for one monthly payment that comes off gross salary. Kind of makes it a bit of a no-brainer if you are a higher rate taxpayer... I'd quite like a polestar.

I had a go in a taycan turbo S last week on a Porsche experience day. Absolutely, totally, 150% mental performance - 0-95mph-0 within 300m distance is unbelievable. However, no one needs instantaneous 750hp and torque, I ended up feeling motion sick by the end and it felt pretty soulless to drive. I imagine the lotus EVs will be along the same lines - they aren't for me, I much prefer to go slower in a V6 exige or cayman GT4!  

[C8RKH]

12 minutes ago, Gashead1105 said:

I'd quite like a polestar

Make sure you get a decent test drive in one. I think they look superb, but the tall and wide central tunnel thingy is a tad invasive and also the seat is weird. It is very supportive side and back, but the bottom bit you sit on feels understrung to me so you sort of get swallowed up by it and it ends up being uncomfortable.

[Gashead1105]

@C8RKH that's interesting. Getting a test drive of the polestar is a real pig - looks like the nearest place is an event in Cambridge next week, an hour or so away! The problem with having no dealers, or living in one of the cities eligible for a "bring the car to you" thing.

I've had a go in an I3 and a mini electric, so I know the use case works for us; but if the choice is spending £20k on a used I3 that will continue to depreciate, needs insurance and maintenance, or £450 net on a salary sacrifice for something new that I'm not responsible for, it's a bit of a no brainer. Of course, if we have to change the family car we'd be getting something with an ICE, and I've got the GT4 for fun also!

[oneshot]

Interesting article here. Car wouldn't stop

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-67005620

[exeterjeep]

Well it is an MG, made in China. Most problems seem to be with the MG 4 rather than the ZS.

[C8RKH]

7 minutes ago, exeterjeep said:

Well it is an MG, made in China

As will be 96% of all Lotus cars in the future. Be careful what you disparage.

 

@Gashead1105 - time to get creative and be bold. Know anyone in your network who has one? Ask them for a test drive (even as a passenger).

See one in your supermarket cr park. Approach the owner. Tell them how you love their car and are looking to get one, but due to dealerships you've not had a chance to sit in one to get a feel. Would they mind?

 

Don't ask, don't get. I've let loads of strangers sit in my Evora. Even took a guy I'd never met before out from ScottishElises forum in mine as he was considering buying one, let him drive it too (after checking he was insured). And yes, he bought one!

[oneshot]

Private buyers of EVs down.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67017972

[Kimbers]

On 05/10/2023 at 16:09, C8RKH said:

Now that's more like it and makes a strong case for the PHEV.

I have to admit that I looked at a Kia EV6 GT yesterday. Lovely bit of kit...

it is mate Cheaper than a Tesla, just as fast, more kit, same if not more range.

[C8RKH]

Yup. A very tempting proposition but still quite expensive. However, £30k cheaper than an equivalent Lotus!

[pete]

@Kimberswhat the resale value like on the Kia

[Kimbers]

The Ev6 is Better than Tesla @pete, but like all EV's, pretty terrible TBH.

Now Sportage or Niro PHEV, thats a different matter. I currently sell 6-12 month old ones of those models at around £2500 ahead of CAP Trade values. Sometimes up to £4,000 on the high spec one's. TBH their used retail makes them nearly the same price as a new one, but you have to wait 12 months minimum for the new one. Hence their values.

[Kimbers]

BP have just announced a commitment to put in develop a Hydrogen refuelling infrastructure in the UK by 2030.

Currently they are stressing this is for Trucks and Commercials (they would have to as the Govt are still wrongly concentrating on EV's in cars) which I suspect is not to scare people off buying EV's. However once the infrastructure is in place we may see a blessed death of Battery power and a switch to Hydrogen. 

 

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

Not confirmed yet, but BBC Breakfast reporter said that this blaze was caused by an EV.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-67073446

Ban them from public multi storey car parks?

[Bibs]

You know petrol cars catch fire too? Would be a bit tricky banning them all.

[jep]

EV caused a fire at Heathrow T3 last week too. 

It's a problem, without doubt but the manufacturers will fix it - eventually.

I doubt many new or newish petrol cars catch fire - it is usually poorly maintained ones. 

Justin 

[Escape]

Apart from (unfortunate) classics with worn fuel lines or such, a petrol car will very rarely catch fire unless in an accident. EVs seem to catch fire at random, which is becoming a real problem, especially considering their numbers are still very low. And it's not just EVs, I see more and more reports about e-bikes etc catching fire, usually when charging but also when simply parked. We all use battery powered tools, yet those catching fire seems to be much rarer, unless abused. To me it feels like battery technology is moving too fast to be reliable/safe with companies raceing for larger capacity and faster charging.

[Bibs]

I think it's something like 175,000 car fires in the USA each year out of 270,000,000 cars. The %age will obvs be petrol as that's the majority of cars at present but as a %age of cars manufactured, I believe from what I've read that EV's are safer in terms of less fires but of course when they do go up, the batteries really do go! 

[jep]

Yes. E bikes a major problem. We ban them in our AST agreements for residential tenants. 

I suspect insurance companies for building and contents will start to consider banning them.

For fire safety measures, a significant topic nowadays post-Grenfell, E bikes are a problem. 

Justin 

[Escape]

4 minutes ago, Bibs said:

I think it's something like 175,000 car fires in the USA each year out of 270,000,000 cars. The %age will obvs be petrol as that's the majority of cars at present but as a %age of cars manufactured, I believe from what I've read that EV's are safer in terms of less fires but of course when they do go up, the batteries really do go! 

I've seen similar stats, but lacking the detail to properly interpret them. Like the severity of the fire (a bad wiring connection catching fire on an old car is easily contained, unlike a 100kWh EV battery lighting up!) and the cause (accident, poor maintenance, problem charging, ...). Given the fact EVs are still idolised by most media, it says something that the reports on EV fires are so frequent.
To add to my previous comparison with battery powered tools, I just realised I too have an EV. I recently replaced my old petrol powered forklift with a slightly less old electrical one. Much nicer to use indoors, that's for sure. It still has lead-acid batteries, not in top shape but enough to cope with out sporadic use. I can't recall many stories about on of those catching fire, despite being used for decades across a wide range of industries.

[exeterjeep]

1 hour ago, Bibs said:

Would be a bit tricky banning them all.

Then we could all go back to horses and carts. Just have to deal with the manure.

[jep]

Or let innovators find a transport solution - instead of imposing EV on manufacturers and public. 

Justin 

[Bibs]

3 minutes ago, exeterjeep said:

Just have to deal with the manure.

I seem to recall in Copenhagen they made an island out of it - it's now where the airport is! 

[C8RKH]

1 hour ago, Bibs said:

You know petrol cars catch fire too? Would be a bit tricky banning them all.

Yup, but when an EV burns it burns at a fierce intensity and is almost impossible to put out right now. Same can't be said for an ICE.

I don't like these "deflection" type arguments. They serve no purpose. Put it this way, right now, I would not have an EV in my garage. I absolutely would not have an EV in a garage that was an integral part of my house. I'd be the same with an e-bike or e-scooter.

That's not to say I would not have any of the above. It's just saying that I would not trust them to be stored within my home.

1 hour ago, Escape said:

a petrol car will very rarely catch fire unless in an accident

Unless it is a Lamborghini being revved at standstill to the redline repeatedly. They burn, and burn quickly........

[Kimbers]

1 hour ago, jep said:

EV caused a fire at Heathrow T3 last week too. 

It's a problem, without doubt but the manufacturers will fix it - eventually.

I doubt many new or newish petrol cars catch fire - it is usually poorly maintained ones. 

Justin 

They can't solve it because it's normally an Idiot driver issue not having the Manufacturers (albeit expensive) service cause "My Mechanic Fred who works outta his shed" knows better and is much cheaper. Many of these spontaniously combust because the service hasn't covered the cooling system and Aircon which cools the batteries.

It is quite weird standing next to my PHEV or my neighbours Tesla, which has been parked for hours and it suddenly starts humming and the aircon turns on. But that's how it works. This is normally during charging but genuinely can happen any time the batteries get hot.

However it is happening to a much higher % of EV's as against Petrol cars. Plus what Andy says is correct, when an EV burns it's dirtier and is almost impossible to put out unless you have a large red truck with blue lights on it. 

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

BBC website now reporting that the Fire Chief thinks it started in a diesel car, which I thought was the least likely suspect. Ban those too!