LEAKED : Paris 2010 : Lotus new Esprit, Elan, Elite & Elise

[chandrew]

I am not a huge fan of the new range (mainly because i could have bought an Esprit at 2x Elise price if that is where it returned!), but really am looking forward to seeing Elan & Esprit.

I think the talk about the high price of the Esprit is out of place. I did a little bit of digging on prices when new. The HC in 1986 was (according to information that I found from reviews) GBP 23,440 compared to 34,750 for the Ferrari 328 - a multiple of 67.5%. Fast forward to the late '90s and the V8 cost 58,750 compared to 88,965 for the F355 - a multiple of 66%. Now we are being told to expect 110,000 compared to the 458 price of 169,585 - a multiple of 65%. If anything, the only thing that we can say about the pricing is that compared to a key competitor, the Esprit has got marginally cheaper over time.

I think the Ferrari comparison is a good one as it will factor in the cost of similar contemporary technologies / materials / energy etc and also reflect the expectations of the potential buyers of these types of cars.

[shadeone]

random thought just popped into my head...

why didnt we get to see the engine bays on the esprit? considering all of the talk and articles specifically focused on the new esprit engine, you'd think this was one feature they would want to show off!

im starting to think there was little hamsters on wheels inside the cars at the show to get them on and off stage... that video showing them leaving the stage had no exhaust noise on any of the cars that i could hear at least...

[jimmybondi]

Jamie,

the new models were displayed w/o engines...

[comem47]

Precisely because there was no sound (electric cars) is why I think the cam covers were dummies. (could have even been glued bits onto a piece of plywood !!! )

(not even close to a real production car so all bets are off)

[simonb]

I think the talk about the high price of the Esprit is out of place. I did a little bit of digging on prices when new. The HC in 1986 was (according to information that I found from reviews) GBP 23,440 compared to 34,750 for the Ferrari 328 - a multiple of 67.5%. Fast forward to the late '90s and the V8 cost 58,750 compared to 88,965 for the F355 - a multiple of 66%. Now we are being told to expect 110,000 compared to the 458 price of 169,585 - a multiple of 65%. If anything, the only thing that we can say about the pricing is that compared to a key competitor, the Esprit has got marginally cheaper over time.

I think the Ferrari comparison is a good one as it will factor in the cost of similar contemporary technologies / materials / energy etc and also reflect the expectations of the potential buyers of these types of cars.

Have an old club lotus magazine in front of me from 2000 that has a London Lotus advert in it, with new car and finance prices

Lotus Elise 2dr Convertible 1.8

Total cash price £21,950

Lotus Esprit 2dr Coupe 3.5 V8GT

Total cash price £39,950

Given that that is OTR for a vanilla Elise (I bought mine in 2000), I would assume that is the no option Esprit - Does make the Esprit actually seem like a really cheap new car in 2000

[red vtec]

I read that the esprit is for 2013.

[NedaSay]

Sometime in 2013! So nope not really we don't have any firm date on the Esprit first delivery!

Edited October 5, 2010 by NedaSay

[jollyroger]

Have anybody noticed how Audi presented its latest Quattro Concept car?

It is a very nice touch to have the 2.5L 5-cylinder 408hp engine (the engine weighs 184kg), and the whole car weighs 1300kg while being four wheel drive.

I really wish they did something like this with the Esprit, something out of the ordinary and yet reminiscent of the past... but maybe it was just not possible.

Francesco

[mblommel]

I'm really very disappointed with this new range. The styling is at best derivative (Esprit, Elan,) and at worst downright ugly (Elise). It appears to me that the Lotus styling department has hired a squadron of pre-teen boys to come up with their new "design DNA" during study hall. Poor styling can often be forgiven if "the goods" lie underneath a ho-hum exterior, but here too they have come up short. Massive increases in power and mass completely violate the essence of what is a Lotus road or race car. To make matters worse there's the complete lack of a manual transmission in all of these offerings except for the Elise, although I'm sure their new target market will check the option box for the automatic about 90 percent of the time. Worst of all is the omission of anything that would be remotely suitable for a track day event. Where is the Exige? How about the 2-11? It appears that Lotus has been transformed from a true driver's car into yet another boulevard poseur's car.

It really doesn't matter what my opinion of these concepts are as I (and most current Lotus owners) am obviously not the intended consumer for these "items". I suppose we still have the consolation that Caterham, Ariel, and such can still cater to a market that is unconcerned with cup holders or flappy paddles.

Edited October 6, 2010 by mblommel

[Iconic Ride]

"Worst of all is the omission of anything that would be remotely suitable for a track day event. Where is the Exige? How about the 2-11?"

Don't lose heart, Mike! It is the nature of car manufacturers, Lotus included, to begin a new model with inherent capacity for future improvements, incremental performance increases being a time honored way to generate new sales in future model years. I suspect that most of these new models (should they actually reach production) will ultimately offer some form of "track day" version availability down the road (unintentional pun). And, in any case, there will always be a cadre of aficionados and fanatics that will happily choose to perform their own mods as the mood strikes. In all likelihood these new offerings will be driven off the showroom floor already possessing the marque's traditional superior handling characteristics---I can't imagine Lotus doing otherwise.

[73JPS]

---I can't imagine Lotus doing otherwise.

Unfortunately, John... I simply can't imagine 'Lotus'.

Now: this may not be a negative thing. I just understand that there is a new Sheriff in town, and I think that things are going to be much removed from the traditions we know.

Edited October 6, 2010 by 73JPS

[Steve Type 085]

I think the new esprit look better than a lot of the images I seen kicking around over the year, it still has enough old esprit detail in the design to be able say it an esprit. It may be getting fatter by 200+ kg but it will also be getting extra 250+ bhp above the most powerful old esprit. By my maths that a better power to wait ratio than any old esprit. But the real question is will it have a useable boot (trank) that will take a suit case like the old ones did (that is hot enough to cook your food on the way home from the market).

[B33 ENN]

Personally, I'm glad that the new cars don't try to take too many styling cues from the old fleet. When the original Esprit came out, it's styling had no similarity to it's predecessor (the Europa) even though the chassis underneath did.

I feel that it has been a good move for Lotus to start with a clean sheet of paper. For me, it allows previious models to retain their classic status and be desireable in their own right. It should mean those who like the old shape cars will not feel too superceded on the roads, be individually recognised for their own eras, and also potentially hold value better. For example, if the "old" Esprit shape is driving next to the new one, it's not going to look inferior or dated - it will look like a classic Lotus of the previous generation, which it is, as does an old Europa standing next to a Guigiaro/Stevens Esprit.

In the same vein, the new Elise will be distinct from the old S2 as the S2 is from the S1. Similarly, a Ferrari F348/355 is distinct from a 308GTB. A Lamborghini Countach is distinct from a Diablo, as that is from a Murcialago... I hope I'm making sense

As for the price comparison showing proportional pricing of ~65%, I think that is a very important post as we easily forget or lose perspective as inflation has crept up in the last 2 decades. At £110k vs £170k, the Esprit will still maintain it's traditional value, and probably out drive the competition. This time however, there should be no dodgy switchgear or fragile running gear to ruin the party.

I feel I *am* the target market for the new Esprit as i have owned several in the past. Whether I can justify one compared to a used Gallardo or Murci is not Lotus' fault in marketing. Just as it was not Lamborghini's fault that in the past I chose to have several Esprits rather than a single Murci/Gallardo.

[Advantage]

Have an old club lotus magazine in front of me from 2000 that has a London Lotus advert in it, with new car and finance prices

Lotus Elise 2dr Convertible 1.8

Total cash price £21,950

Lotus Esprit 2dr Coupe 3.5 V8GT

Total cash price £39,950

Given that that is OTR for a vanilla Elise (I bought mine in 2000), I would assume that is the no option Esprit - Does make the Esprit actually seem like a really cheap new car in 2000

The Esprit range started at £39.950 but you wouldn't be getting a V8 for that, 'just' a 4 cylinder GT3. The V8GT was £49,950 upwards.

[simonb]

The London Lotus advert really does state 3.5 V8 GT for £39950

[ramjet]

I've been thinking about this and have come up with the following:

Evora - optioned up in the UK ~ 52k GBP - optioned up in Aus ~ $150k AUD

new Esprit - circa 110k GBP in the UK - circa $325k AUD

My S4 was circa $200k AUD new in 1995. I had to wait 15 years to get one of these. A new Esprit is just not achievable for me until approximately 2028 at which time I'll be 66 and if we're to believe the greenies, the planet may well be dead anyway. Oh well. Maybe I'll just drive up in my old S4 in 2013 and ask for a test drive.

[Iconic Ride]

I just understand that there is a new Sheriff in town, and I think that things are going to be much removed from the traditions we know.

I get where you're coming from, Patrick, but I'm operating under the assumption that most Sheriffs don't shoot themselves in the foot.

I feel that it has been a good move for Lotus to start with a clean sheet of paper. For me, it allows previious models to retain their classic status and be desireable in their own right. It should mean those who like the old shape cars will not feel too superceded on the roads, be individually recognised for their own eras, and also potentially hold value better. For example, if the "old" Esprit shape is driving next to the new one, it's not going to look inferior or dated - it will look like a classic Lotus of the previous generation, which it is, as does an old Europa standing next to a Guigiaro/Stevens Esprit.

I hope I'm making sense

Exceptionally well put, and you are.

[andecorp]

I've been thinking about this and have come up with the following:

Evora - optioned up in the UK ~ 52k GBP - optioned up in Aus ~ $150k AUD:whistle:

I put down my deposit on the Evora at the Melbourne Motor show. I pulled out of the deal, when the final price for my car with the options I wanted, was over AU$200k! The options were basically the LE options. What's that at today's exchange? 140k GBP?

[ramjet]

Maybe I underestimated it then. The only Evora over here is just over 150k and according to the dealer it is optioned up , but I can't tell you with what as it's out of my price range.

[NedaSay]

I just returned from my afternoon at the Paris Auto Show! Actually I spent most of it in the Lotus Booth!

I saw the Elise in the metal and I got stunned! So yes it's bigger than the current one but it is just gorgeous to look at!It looked a bit cold on the pictures, somewhat japanese but when you see the thing, omg!!!!

I got lucky cause they only authorize a few people at the same time and I got like 30 minutes of total freedom to detail as much as I could. I talked with Michelle Evans from Lotus and they are all so excited that it's hard not to be excited too! They will have the resources, the space and the people to get the job done! She told me that I needed to go to the factory to see how much had already changed!

The booth is back to normal the Evoras S and IPS and an Exige RGB are up front. The Elise, Elite, Elan and Esprit are a few steps back! No Eterne on display today!!

The Evora S engine is on display as well as the Esprit engine. They told me that a few Lotus concept stores are going to open! I had a look at the merchandise and it does look like Hackett! I was also able to browse the new Lotus Mag It's really well done even if expensive!

The Esprit is fantastic, no actually it fanbleedingtastic!

The Elan looks great but can't help thinking that even if it does look a lot like the 1990's Elan... It is imo the next gen Evora!

The Elite is just stunning to look at, I felt hypnotized for a bit!

The Exos looks like massive fun and it just looks massive in every way in fact! Would like to be part of that club

The Evora IPS, I got inside it and must say that the paddles on the steering wheel are a bit of a bummer I prefer them on the column! However the finish of the car looks like it's been pushed up another notch! I was told that the ergonomics on the new line up will be a lot better and from what I saw of the Esprit, it could really be good.

Funny thing: Jarno and Heikki helmets' are on display!!! It looks like some higher ups in the background are pushing for a positive outcome! Really the stand could have used the noise and poise of a T127!

The rest of the show was ok! The Fisker Karma is one sweet looker of a car! The New BMW Coupé looks bland in real life. The Lambo Sexto Elemento is sex on wheels! Approaching the Ferrari booth was as retarded as ever! the Citroen DS4 is a great looking compact car but again so is the Alfa Giulietta! The Audi A1 is almost disappointing: lots of hard plastic! Sad to see Lancia relegated to a pityful corner ! The Evoque is going to be a steal

Still Lotus stole the show the stand on their in Hall 5 and as a result the stand is more accessible than those of the competition!

Today was my birthday and I got a nice treat I know exactly which car I want in exactly four years time: the new Elise!!!! Unless I get a used Elise in six month! Well maybe I'll wait a bit longer cause an Elise in the streets of Montreal in March is pretty much recipe for disaster!

Edited October 7, 2010 by NedaSay

[alan]

An interesting perspective from Classic Driver

http://www.classicdriver.com/uk/magazine/3200.asp?id=14787

[mdavies]

From the Classic Driver report (John Simister):

"The structures will be developments of the existing bonded-and-extruded aluminium system pioneered in the Elise and refined for the Evora (the latter will continue in the new range, incidentally, occupying a position between the Elise and the Elan)."

There is a phrase in that sentence that caught my attention - something about the Evora! It's not stated in any of the many other reports I've seen, and I find it as hard to believe as the prospect of all five new cars (+ City) actually reaching the showrooms.

But in any case, as an Evora owner, I'm with the poster who has suggested that on the grounds of the "last real one", marvellous driving experience and relative rarity, whether discontinued soon or not it will remain sought-after by a good chunk of the Lotus community.

[hedgerley]

Interesting snippet in this week's Autosport - new Esprit will take over from the Evora in GT2 at the end of 2013 -

"The Evora GT2 will be available next year. Work has already started, Dallara are involved with the aero development, and according to Claudio Berro 'The car will be ready for the beginning of the season. We have requests for five cars and maybe we will see it at Le Mans'

The LMP2 is expected to run by the end of next summer, and may do a couple of end-of-season 2011 races in preparation for 2012. A factory team will do selected races, including Le Mans, but they're aiming to sell customer cars. Berro says 'We will run our own team for development purposes, but it will not be a team that does a full championship. We will leave that to our customers'

The engine is a 4-litre V6, based on the unit used in the Evora Cup GT4. Cosworth are developing it for both GT2 and LMP2 use.

The second GT2 car is based on the new Esprit, and is expected to replace the Evora in late 2013/2014"

Whilst much of this thread wonders how on earth Lotus can afford to launch 6 new models over the next 5 years, they are getting much deeper into motorsport as well. I hope the wheels don't fall, metaphorically speaking of course.......

[Mark Blanchard]

It's very interesting reading all the opinions on this thread. And my 2 pence worth? Well after waiting 8 years waiting for it's release, am I stunned? Hmm . . . not really, I was expecting it to be more dramatic. But it is a very nice looking car. I guess it's like when the Stevens X180 was revealed in October 1987, people applauded it's for it's smooth clean lines and it's faithfullness to the original, but I don't think many people were stunned.

The side profile of the new Esprit is like a generic supercar; Lamborghini Gallardo, McLaren MP4-12C and very similar to the new Lamborghini Jota. I guess it could hark back the Lotus Emotion, Honda NSX / MG EX-E (What a stunning car that was for the time). The front end of the Esprit is conservatively styled but aggressive and the rear view looks uniquely styled and rather interesting. I think I'll grow to like this car more as time goes by, it looks much better than the McLaren MP4 (which looks like an old Ferrari) and the long in the tooth Gallardo.

So well done Lotus and I think it looks better even than the proposed new Lamborghini Jota.

Edited October 10, 2010 by Mark B

[The Veg]

I guess it's like when the Stevens X180 was revealed in October 1987, people applauded it's for it's smooth clean lines and it's faithfulness to the original, but I don't think many people were stunned.

I was just a lad of 20 when the Stevens car was introduced, but I too was underwhelmed by it. I tried really hard to like it, and I do like it more than I dislike it, but to me it just doesn't have that special 'something' that the original Esprit had, if that makes any sense.

The side profile of the new Esprit is like a generic supercar; Lamborghini Gallardo, McLaren MP4-12C and very similar to the new Lamborghini Jota. I guess it could hark back the Lotus Emotion, Honda NSX / MG EX-E (What a stunning car that was for the time). The front end of the Esprit is conservatively styled but aggressive and the rear view looks uniquely styled and rather interesting. I think I'll grow to like this car more as time goes by, it looks much better than the McLaren MP4 (which looks like an old Ferrari) and the long in the tooth Gallardo.

So well done Lotus and I think it looks better even than the proposed new Lamborghini Jota.

The comparisons are inevitable these days, and I share much of your sentiment. I'll reserve my final judgment of the new Esprit for when I see it in the flesh, but in pictures I am once again underwhelmed, and this time because it does rather seem like a collection of clichés thrown together, from that any-supercar nose to that most tired cliché of our modern era, the oddly-shaped exhausts. Betcha the thing will go like sh!t off a stick though, as an English friend of mine likes to say.