Ride height

[Doulou]

Hi all,

I have posted a picture of my car, and wondered if anyone could tell if she's sitting to high?

Many thanks

Paul

[karmavore]

Subjectively or in regards to factory spec?

[Doulou]

Well it's funny, sometimes the height looks ok, then other times too high. I think its perhaps the correct height for the car, but would look more planted being about 2 - 3 inches lower. any thoughts?

[Bibs]

If you muck about with the ride height you'll affect the, erm, ride which in a Lotus isn't a good thing. There's a chap on here with a SE so low that he can't drive more than 40mph on bumpy roads as the car is permanently bottoming the springs out.

The correct specs are in the service manual but from memory are 180mm rear and 170mm front on an SE.

[red vtec]

Looks correct to me, They don't ride ultra low, (But I do like em low).

[karmavore]

I say: do what you want. I really think Lotus' concern only effect their engineers. The Esprit racecars aren't running stock ride hight and neither are LOTS of guys who track their cars.

However...

As Bibs said you will have to seek out smooth pavement and that can cause stress, especially here in DC.

[Quicker]

yep - they look goofy high.

To lower them you really have to raise the spring rate and lower the shock travel. Then, of course, fiddle with the settings to get the balance back.

he's mine.... (sorry the driveway in on a slate, but the pic is not..

Edited April 20, 2011 by Quikr

[Simon350S]

I personally really don't like the Esprit when it sits at "factory" ride height. They just look daft.

There's lots of talk on here about it and how press cars and show cars were especially lowered but it just doesn't look nice, it's not how the car should look.

My choice is low, not too low but low enough to 'look right'

I'm not convinced that any of the Esprits that left the factory originally sat that high, the argument of them being old cars doesn't wash that well as even the very late V8s looked low when they were new.

Ho hum, I know this causes controversy on here but that's my opinion, Low Low Low.... It's the only way to go go go....!!

[lotus4s]

To answer your question, it looks too high to me even for the factory spec. What damper/spring and tire size combination are you running?

Edited April 20, 2011 by lotus4s

[slewthy]

Most of the 'untampered with' esprits I've seen (I'm no expert BTW), sit with the bottom of the body panels lying just above or at wheel centre.

You should see mine ATM - no engine in. Thats so high, its almost internal!

Edited April 20, 2011 by slewthy

[Jonathan]

I have done so much work on this its unbelievable, and come up with only 1 conclusion : looks can be deceptive.

I've just quickly pulled 5 V8s and a few S4's /SE's off press and other photo sources and lined the wheels upto the sill line, and guess what - they're all the same, and they're the same as the 'riding high' GT3 and only...5mm (Esprit ride height tollerance is +/- 5mm) out on original poster's car.

I think they look great lower than a snakes gonads as well, but the thing wont handle anywhere near the same as it left factory.

[Doulou]

Thanks for all the advice, I will have a look at the factory ride height spec and compare it with mine. If needs be i'll get some new coilvers. I don't want it too low but to me it's just not quite right, far higher than my Excel. But in fairness the car handles really well.

Thanks again

Sorry Jim I can't answer your question about current spring / damper set up because I don't know, but the tyres are correct original size 245back and 215 front

[Vulcan Grey]

problem with lowering any car (including the Esprit) is that as you get lower you change the angles of the suspension relative to the chassis. Go low enough and you effect tire camber, toe, and caster. Go lower and you effect the bump steer of the steering rack.

Keep in mind that the Esprits prior to the '94 S4 (except for the Sport300 and X180-R) do not have adjustable camber. Your tires will wear very fast.

The X180-R has a raised steering rack and other changes to allow them to run lower, my friend has his at 156mm rear and 159mm front. But that is only possible with a fully threaded shock body. And most shocks will not be able to run much lower than ~170mm in the front due to clearance issues with the lower wishbone.

[slewthy]

Re Vulcangrey's last post and camber adjustment, it is possible to add this to the G/S car setup. Top link is cut and a large threaded stud fed in.

[Quicker]

Several vendors offer the top link conversion to make them adjustable, I just fetched an OE set off e-bay.

[Vulcan Grey]

Slewthy,

you mean like this?

I made these... But, yes you can buy them.

and the later upper front wishbones look like this

There are some custom ones for sale on ebay

http://motors.shop.ebay.com/addlightness/m.html?_trksid=p4340.l2562

Edited April 20, 2011 by Vulcan Grey

[CHANGES]

Hi all

Travis made a most important point on this thread that you should all remember , when upsetting the design spec's....

The ride height will determine the pick up points on the chassis , wheel size, steering rack position, and overall GEO....

The angle in which the front radius arms sit in relation to each other ( top and bottom ) and the datum horizontal, will determine the angle fluctuation of the complete GEO when under load....

Just reseting the camber and tracking at your new ride height to standard will not change anything...The suspension will be working outside it design function..

Numerical example

set as per factory working zone between -1 to +2

set lower Working zone between +2 to +4

Set high working zone between -3 to -1

The amount of angle deflection on the GEO in the out of spec zones will also be diferent , this in turn will make the car twitchy, It may not be evident to you at lower speeds and you may feel your lower set up is perfect , but you will experience extra tyre wear , bump steer along with other enomalies, As long as you realise this then the responsibilty lies with you..... The one unfortunate fact is , in an emergency manovering position which is usually at speed, you discover the shortfalls in you cars handling.... It may not be dramatic but could be the diference between a near miss and impact....( food for thought )

Dave L

[rogerch]

Lets look at simple solutions first, if it's high it's only marginal.

First, I don't know the history of your car, or the suspension bushes, or how the ride hight was last set, but.

Last year I dismantled mine to a rolling chassis for a re-spray (this after renewing all the bushes and re-setting the ride hight), the day before it was due to come back, I was rushed to hospital, so it took a while before the car was put back together. So it had been standing high on it's suspension for a while, due to the decreased weight.

When it was all back in one piece it continued to sit up. Now there are all sorts of "approved" methods of resetting the hight, here's mine jack it up, remove the wheel, put it on 4 stands, now loosed off all the bushes, front and rear. Now put a jack at the extremities of the suspension on 1 corner, and jack it up to compress the suspension, do this until the car lifts off the nearest stands (only needs to just clear) then tighten the bushes, work your way round each corner in the same way.

If your bushes are stuffed replace them before you start.

I'll bet it sits lower.

[CHANGES]

That is what you do when setting up correctly , slacken all joints ,, set correct ride hight ,, tighten to correct torque ... |The bushes on the esprit act as part of the susprnsion , not just a pivot point...

Dave

[rogerch]

I'm not sure if you're asking ma a question Dave. But yes, it's how I do it, the manual doesn't explain how you load the car up to the right weight and then gain access to the underside on your driveway. I'm probably putting a little more loading in the suspension than factory spec, but like others I like it low.

You can do it with just a jack and the other 3 wheels still on the ground then when a second wheel lifts off tighten it.

Your point about the bushes is well made and why they need to be in good condition.

[CHANGES]

Sorry Roger,

I was making a statement agreeing with what you said. Also confirming it is the correct thing to do when setting ride height..... regardless wether it is lowered or not... it should however be done on scales with pre determined weight in drivers seat , this will insure the pre load on the springs and corner wieght on each axle is correct......But that is a specialist job usually done with full GEO set up...

Dave

[rogerch]

Yes, unfortunately bathroom scales generally don't take the weight of an Esprit, but I did once have 4X bathroom scales.

[Dave Freeman]

Interesting post, my car has been lowered, very low but I personally prefer the look of the car, for me it looks more sporty and as it should have looked. There are a number of issues.

1. you need stiffer suspension

2. stronger springs, adjustable top links

3. Willing to put up with a harder ride

I compounded my problems by fitting 18 inch on the rear and 17 on the front (285 and 235 respectivily)

I aslo fitted 324 6 pot brakes which required a different hub on the front and the push the wheels out by some 12 mm this has givern rubbing on the front in somne places the clearance is down to 5mm.

It has taken weeks of setting up and I still have minor rubbing.

And yes bibs it is going to GEO for a balance set up to be sure its right, at 160 miles per hour it needs to be spot on.

Dave

No pictures cos I am have issues with up loading.

[Vulcan Grey]

Btw, the V8 wheels do help with the large space under the wheel arches...

My car on the right is at the stock ride height. The red car on the left is stock.

You do need the adjustable rear camber though.

[rocket63]

My preference is low, like a skate board. I am in agreement that the Esprit looks absolutely ridiculous sitting high. Looks like it is waiting for a 4 x 4 monster truck conversion