Bahar Suspended

[Simon350S]

Does anyone see any resemblances to Brewsters Millions in the Lotus story over the last couple years?

[Bibs]

No.

[Kimbers]

Yep. Spend it but you're not allowed to actually have anything to show for it at the end. Genius Simon!! :)

Mark, can you possibly ask Dany why he left Ferrari and Red Bull? I've always wondered!

[DarrylV8]

Kimbers,

is it not obvious why DB left Ferrari and Red Bull? Red Bull dont manufacture a sports car and Ferrari only build really expensive red things that look sh1t IMHO; where as Lotus ..............

[Suddabym]

Mark, can you possibly ask Dany why he left Ferrari and Red Bull? I've always wondered!

Apparently, according to the Man, he left Redbull when he found out that they didn't make racing cars and he left Ferrari when he realised that the Italians don't make a decent fizzy drink. Actually, that's not true, he left Farrari cos they wouldn't give him a free house and private jet.

Other questions answered later, Dany wants me to help with some sketches for his new TVR range. I think the six wheel version with the bubble cockpit and massive rear fins is just a work in progress. But then again, he is a marketing leviathan.

[Kimbers]

Does it have a driver called Parker?

[Stirling_Villeneuve]

I'm not sure about all this DB bashing. OK so I wasn't his biggest fan either but perhaps I'm thinking it's better the devil you know. I'm far more fearful of what lies ahead for Lotus without him at the helm.

[Suddabym]

Hey, I'm with you. Why do you think I'm down here? Dany is ace and I've just checked with him and he thinks he's ace too. I only declared a Three Purple Alpha emergency cos I knew the new guy would rock up with a socket set and get all facts and figures. Dany is a marketing orangutan (big and orange) amongst minkeys. D'you think Manic and Wolverine will stay without Dany steering a course though these austere times immune to the vagrancies of budgets and CFOs and the tediousness of expense claim forms. This guy was thinking big, looking beyond the market to a point that not even the market knew was there. He was bringing to market cars for people who didn't even know there was a market for people like them. So I agree, Lotus will be a poorer place now (mainly cos Dany's legged it with the petty cash tin) without that young boy who had a dream and the dream was to get the smeg out of Turkey, but later, although it wasn't his dream back when he was a young boy growing up in a turnip field, took a risk and moved to Norfolk, only to find that he was back in a turnip field. And then he took a gamble that turned into punt that ended up a discarded betting slip on the floor of corporate politics. Dany is ace and I wanted an Elite. With rocket pods and sharks teeth and an automated hair mousse dispenser not a Proton in a pretty frock. So I say go back to Malaysia new guy and let Dany deliver (although not until the Esprit's wing mirrors have been signed off, obviously).

Oh, and we finally managed to open a tin of spam. We used Dany's curling tongs. Took five hours. Dany doesn't like it though. So he's in for a bit of a shock once we've worked though the tinned caviar and artichoke hearts.

I agree (about the spam, bloody awful stuff). Dany.

[Iconic Ride]

From a 7 June 2012 article by Steve Davies...

"From the information we’ve been able to gather, Bin Farikullah seems like a safe pair of hands. An engineer, family man and an executive who is more than competent in the manufacture and assembly of automotive vehicles and components. However, there is nothing in his past experience that would qualify him to lead a sports car company, nor create the kind of marketing and commercial deals necessary to build a strong international dealer network.

With Bin Farikullah being appointed to the role of COO, his role is clearly intended to oversee the operation of Group Lotus’ businesses (including its successful engineering and consulting firm) and either wait for a CEO to join, or be the caretaker until Lotus is eventually sold to another party."

Makes one wonder if we'll even get to know the new devil. Still...

"DRB-Hicom has confirmed this evening that no further comment will be passed on their dismissal of Dany Bahar, however we expect a statement outlining Bin Farikullah’s immediate plans to re-build confidence with the company’s customers, suppliers and dealers."

You can make your own inquiries, if you like. I'm certain that corporate clarification is but a phone call away.

Corporate Headquarters*

Wisma DRB-HICOM

Shah Alam, Selangor 40150

Malaysia

Phone: 60 3 2052 8000

Fax: 60 3 2052 8099

[Bibs]

http://www.btimes.com.my/Current_News/BTIMES/articles/20120608001156/Article/index_html

Business Times reported in April that Lotus was in dire straits, with Proton having to pump in between £5 million and £8 million a week into it.

[Simon350S]

Think even Brewster would have struggled to spend that much.... Wow!

[richardvg]

I would like to see an ode to Dany placed on this forum.............after all he was technically sound 70% ,90% of the time ...

[simonb]

Seems like this could leave Lotus cars standing or falling on the new Esprit, and a REALLY high chance that it will be yet another model brought to market with too little development. I think the "Lotus" V8 could be a real problem here, if it is not 100% reliable and developed, I think it will knock the brand of both Cars & Engineering so far that any sale of the company will be for the IP, and the brand will die

[ramjet]

Have to agree with Simon. That is a hell of an amount to chew through each week!

Is that on top of the bank loans?

[Stirling_Villeneuve]

Seems like this could leave Lotus cars standing or falling on the new Esprit, and a REALLY high chance that it will be yet another model brought to market with too little development. I think the "Lotus" V8 could be a real problem here, if it is not 100% reliable and developed, I think it will knock the brand of both Cars & Engineering so far that any sale of the company will be for the IP, and the brand will die

Agreed... but that's if the new Esprit makes it to the showrooms. As much as understand the appeal of a bespoke engine I can see it being an achilles heel too. I'm sure the new boss is looking closely at the figures in WZ's dept. Hopefully there's other areas to cut back on... the motorsport bills alone must be spectacular.

[TBD]

Lotus Engineering has developed a whole set of engines for other car manufacturers in the last few years. Why shouldn't they get the V8 right? The V8 s designed to be downscalable to V6 and 4 cylinder engines. I'm sure these designs will be resold to other manufacturers, be they European, Malasian or Chinese.

You can't win in an exclusive market with a Toyota engine and the Mercedes 8 several exoticars are using weighs tons.

[Kimbers]

Sorry Thomas thats not strictly true. Lotus Engineering have worked on already developed engines, not designed, built and developed an engine themselves. Also Lotus Engineerings main area has historically been ride and handling.

It was a worry when they announced their own engine. Just to comply with European standards for quality and emissions takes 2 years of homologation, testing and development (including tens of test engines)This costs tens of millions alone! Thats without the cost of the actual design, building and engine. Then you have to factor in such standards as Californian Legislation and emission testing, the strictest in the world at present. You can't bypass it because that was the market Bahar was aiming at (Hollywood). SO you haveto do all that homologation again!

Then the big bugbear. Reliability. The more powerful an engine the harder this is to get. don't forget the fiasco of the Esprit V8 and all the nightmares that went with it...especially the Lemon Laws in America which meant if that happened now, Lotus would have to buy back the cars they sold at Retail new cost (plus expenses) even if they went pop a year down the line.

If you don't believe me then here's an excerpt from one of the top men in the Automotive world (and no, he's not related to me):

"Some large manufacturers make at least some of their own engines, but many have joint ventures with other manufacturers and share the engine designs (and in some cases build them for each other) since the cost to of R&D is so expensive.

For example, Ford build all of their diesel engines for Europe at Dagenham, but the designs are shared with PSA (Peugeot and Citroën) and Mazda. GM Europe and Fiat share diesel engine designs, and Suzuki also uses the Fiat-sourced diesel engines. PSA and BMW share petrol engine designs (the 1.6-litre engine in the MINI is virtually identical to that in the Peugeot 207, 308, 508 & RCZ and Citroën DS3, C4, DS4, C5 & DS5.

Similarly, Renault & Nissan share some engines.

Jaguar-Land Rover currently does not build any of its own engines - they are mostly sourced from Ford factories even though the V8 petrol and diesel engines are not used by Ford (the decision on where to make the engines was made when Ford owned JLR) - but they will in the next few years having announced a new engine plant near Wolverhampton.

Any small manufacturer without strong backing (Ferrari and FIAT is a good example), would not develop their own engine as the cost is prohibitive. That said there are those that have tried in the past, but modern legislation makes this uneconomic for the numbers they would sell."

[chandrew]

My understanding is that the new engine is someone else's race engine, 'converted' to a road engine; much the same as Ricardo have done for McLaren. This isn't as far removed from their existing business as building from scratch. You'd also hope that if Ricardo can manage it Lotus can give it a good stab.

I'm not saying it's easy, it's clearly not. But at this end of the market I'm not sure the ISF engine that was originally proposed would cut it. My overriding memories of my drives in a 997 GT3 RS are of the engine. More recently, driving Astons with that V12 the emotions that you get from the way it delivers power and the sound it produces doing so is a big part of the experience.

Objectively there's probably nothing wrong with the Toyota Engine. In fact, the fact my Elise had a Toyota engine was a plus factor when ordering it - I knew the car would go wrong but considered the engine more reliable than other options (notably the 6 cylinder non-GT water cooled engines in the 997). At Elise prices that's OK given the other attributes. At Esprit prices it's not.

[Bibs]

Sorry Thomas thats not strictly true. Lotus Engineering have worked on already developed engines, not designed, built and developed an engine themselves. Also Lotus Engineerings main area has historically been ride and handling.

The Range Extender, Ultra Boost and Onmivore are 3 recent high profile examples of in-house engines. A few years back 10-15% of ALL NEW CARS sold in the EU had a Lotus designed and/or developed engine and the Ecotec (L850) engine which was used in scores of cars of has it's project centre in Hethel. These were, at peak being produced at a rate of one per 17 seconds.

http://www.lotuscars...ent-performance

[Mark Blanchard]

I've always thought it was a mistake Lotus building their own engine for the Esprit. Reliability is paramount, IMO they should have worried less about perception and developed the reliable Lexus unit that was being talked about at the time.

[Bibs]

Is the Esprit engine unreliable? How many times have you been stranded Mark?

[Kimbers]

I don't know 100% where the "Toyota Engine" thing came from cause I can tell you that the Engine that was going to be fitted to the New Esprit under the previous...previous...management was intended to be German.

And Bibs. The Lotus V8 Esprit engine had more than a 1 in 4 failure rate when it was launched. I call that pretty unreliable. Just because you don't have issues now (after 12 years or more) doesn't make it a reliable engine. Its failings are very well documented.

The 4 Cylinder was a different kettle of fish. Developed many many EU legislations ago.

[Bibs]

The Lotus V8 Esprit engine had more than a 1 in 4 failure rate when it was launched.

No chance*!

*Just called Hethel to clarify. Out of over 1,600 V8's built, perhaps 100 were replaced over the life of the engine.

[Gus82]

Agreed... but that's if the new Esprit makes it to the showrooms. As much as understand the appeal of a bespoke engine I can see it being an achilles heel too. I'm sure the new boss is looking closely at the figures in WZ's dept. Hopefully there's other areas to cut back on... the motorsport bills alone must be spectacular.

Yeah, as much as I was pleased to see Lotus back in motorsport in a big way, they really don't need to be involved in anything other than F1 (which doesn't cost them anything now) and grassroots/privatier GT racing (which should bring in money or at least break even).

I hope they also make sure that the Evora re-fresh/new variants make it to market (described at the bottom of the article in the link below) as well as the Esprit, as it will really help get sales on the up ahead of the Esprit and increase the chances of its success. The front engined cars are almost certainly dead though if they are trying to stem these kinds of weekly losses.

http://skiddmark.com/2012/05/group-lotus-a-future-worth-fighting-for/

[simonb]

The 4 Cylinder was a different kettle of fish. Developed many many EU legislations ago.

History dcoes not show this to have been reliable in it's first incarnation (Jenson Healey), Lotus already have a problem of perceived unreliability, so even if they failed less than an audi (which has high perceived reliability) the odd failure would be a problem