Cutting out when warm? Elite S1.

[Drawfiler]

Just a thought, my Eclat needed a carb rebuild so I got the kit and took great care to do the job right. It would not run right  and was impossible to start when hot.

I fiddled and faffed for days with this and in the end took it to Lotubits.

The problem was because the previous owner had changed the headlights from pneumatic to electric popups. The pipe from the manifold goees into the front by the rad and had a blanking bung in it . This bung was leaking and the air was getting in there causing a weak mixture on tick over so I had over compensated and the car would not run properly when warm, I replaced the bung and balanced up, all is well now. so look for leaks!

[basalte]

I am still right slap-bang  in the middle of this problem since last October. Car (2.2) was fine all last year in the hot weather but now will run fine until well hot (but is not overheating), plenty of fuel in tank,  then stationery it sputters, misfires, stalls,  can`t start from idle unless I gun the throttle . So something seems to have deteriorated/got worse...

 

... I changed coil (from SJ Sports-advertised as correct one) ,  dizzy cap, rotor arm, HT leads, replaced plugs,  about to try changing the coil over when hot....then I`ll move on the ignition module (which is 30 years old Lumenition after all) and the ballast resistor...if any one has further ideas, would be very grateful !

Thanks

Dan    

[Loose Cannon]

When I was having trouble starting, and thinking the same thing, I was told by someone much cleverer that the Lumenition will either work or won't, rather than anything intermittent. What did the plugs look like when you took them out? Good even colour? Have you tried a Colourtune plug?

 

On this age car it's only sparks and fuel. I might be talking bollocks but to my thinking you either have a good strong timed spark or you don't. Can anything time or temperature related change this?

 

Then fuel; could it be the fuel pump, or like me some detritus sloshing about in the tank and temporarily blocking the outlet? On a 40 year old car a carb rebuild can't hurt anything, neither can a fuel pump.

[basalte]

Hi Mark-forgot to say, the plugs have been variously cIeaned and replaced-indeed I first thought the problem was down to  fouled plugs but they were not particularly dirty and the same problems happened with all-new ones in. I `ve just had the fuel pump changed as well,  even though the "old" one before that was put on in 2011. I too have been told the Lumenition module is either "working or not working at all"but other posts and advice seem to contradict that ? 

It`s true it might still be bits in the fuel tank / dirty carbs,  but  the car was fine last year when run in the same conditions and with less fuel in the tank. (I might also have thought it would have dirty fuel problems when I first bought it as a 7-year "stander",  but had run it 18 months with no similar issue).

... it all still seems very much heat-related as the car ran normally after "cooling down"- leaving it 90 minutes , then about 30 mins in it started all over again.

The saga continues... 

[johnpwalsh]

Hi, I have not gone all the way through this thread but I had a similar problem earlier this year during the rebuild of my S3, what I thought and what was suggested as being the ignition module failing I bit the bullet and purchased a complete new setup, fitted it to the car and found no improvement, next changed the dizzxy cap, leads, plugs and everything else in the system except for the coil as it had been replaced just a few months earlier. Well you guessed it after several hundred pounds, lots of cursing and swearing it was the coil which was at fault, car would drive great for 5/6 miles then just die, usually preceded by one missfire/backfire, let her cool for 10/12 minutes and away she would go again for anothe 10 mins, I firstly suspected fuel so cleaned and flushed the system and fitted a new inline filter just back from the carbs a bit but obviously all for nothing. I eventually tried a borrowed coild just to prove it wasnt mine that was at fault and there you have it. One duff coil which had proably only done about 30 miles.

Hope that helps.

[basalte]

Hi, suspicion has now fallen on the ballast resistor as new coil didn`t help. On the 2.2 its a wire ...The exact answer might be on another thread but that`s what I`m now out to try to replace-I understand also that there`s no point in substituting them, just add one. (?!)

Thanks

Dan

[basalte]

Hi again, (sigh...) suspicion has now switched to the distributor (had a new cap 6 months ago incidentally), tested and car runs the better the cooler the distributor is ! The constant theme now, is a weak spark .

 

Therefore,  could any one recommend a 2.2 electronic ignition distributor and module ? ( the Lumenition module is all still from 1980... ) I see plenty of stuff about converting the  2.0 litre not so much about the 2.2 (maybe should look on Esprit thread ? So, apologies if the answer is obvious somewhere else on the threads ! 

Thanks

Dan

[mikeeech]

So the ballast resistor (or wire) didn't fix it? Personally with a weak spark I would rework the whole ignition system with an ECU and remove the distributor completely. You've had this problem since october now it must be really spoiling your enjoyment of your car...

[cdfps]

I am a big fan of the "understand the problem" step of car repair.  

 

With the car cold

 

- to + terminal primary resistance should be a few ohms like 3 or 4 

- or + to the HT secondary resistance should be like 10k ohms ish.

.

Get the problem condition by getting the car hot.  if either of the two measurements gets a lot higher (think 5 ohms + on the primary and 12k ohms + on the secondary) your coil is bad.  Resistance increases with heat so you would expect the numbers to fail on the increased resistance side, but you could also have a mechanical failure in the coil and get a massive decrease in resistance like 1 ohm or 1k ohm because of a short to ground.

[TonyPoll]

Not sure if this applies here, but I seem to remember someone had an 'invisible' break in a small wire in his distributor. The small wire apparently looked OK but as things got hotter, or the vacuum advance rotated the base plate, sometimes this wire parted (possibly within the plastic insulation) and ignition was lost, until things cooled down and the wire again made a circuit.

Give the wires within the distributor a tug. If the wire parts you may have found the case of your problem.

Maybe other on the forum can shed more light on this.

[basalte]

Thanks; yes I am missing driving it ... I think I am just going to take the plunge and get a new Lumenition optronic module/dizzy as at the end of the day its a 34-year old system  and I`d like to troubleshoot  as much as poss. at once .

While that`s been going on, the cambelt is only 5000 miles but 2 1/2 years old-that needs replacing too then .   

[Sir Paolo]

I had a hot starting problem a few years back, and after changing starter, battery, coil, leads, ballast resistor etc, etc. all to no avail.

In desperation I called the RAC- I was very fortunate as the guy knew his stuff, and diagnosed the problem as corroding loom terminations in a number of key areas.

Replacing the corroded connectors cured the problem- he explained that it usually manifests itself when hot as a cables resistance increases with temperature, so the problem seems to go away when cold.

[basalte]

Thanks Paul, I would not rule out corroded connectors but I remember as recently as last summer running the car in bad stop/start traffic queues  with no problems and before that, going to the Lotus Festival 2012 on a hot day with the engine running hot (leaking radiator as it turned out!) with no problems except a fuse blowing-(admittedly might be a symptom there).... I think that if new electronic ignition won`t cure it, then its difficult to rule out fuel (although other reasons to think this unlikely) and broader wiring/connector problems .  

[xam69]

Hi all.   I had this same problem with my eclat. I eventually traced the problem to the fuel pump delivering too high a fuel pressure and flooding the engine when hot, and a nasty engine fire eventually.

On tick over, the float valves in the carbs are overwhelmed by the high fuel pressure and the engine floods.

A relatively cheap fuel pressure regulator sorted the problem.  The aftermarket fuel pump that came with the car was pushing out about 7 psi. My understanding is that there are two versions of the SU fuel pump  low pressure 2.5 psi and high pressure 5 psi.  and its very hard to tell what pressure a pump is putting out without a pressure gauge.  

My eclat is currently set up with twin strombergs and a fuel pressure of 2.5 psi. 

I'm not sure what fuel pressure is recommended for dellortos. Perhaps someone can advise. 

[Dill]

Hi guys I have the same issue with my eclat cutting out after 25mins running. It won’t start just cranks. Iv removed the fuel tank and ran it off a Gerry can to eliminate vaporisation in the tank or issues with the tank and it did the same thing.
 

iv checked the fuel pump, dizzy cap and rotor arm loosing hope.. I keep seeing people mention the AB14 ignition amplifier where is this located on the car.? 
 

thanks 

[Gray14]

In the Engine bay, right hand side, mounted on the middle of wheel arch. Looks something like the pic below. The internal gizmo can be replaced much cheaper than buying an new Lucas unit

[Dill]

Hi Gary I think mines is an older model, and doesn’t have this fitted. It’s not anywhere in the engine bay or under the car. I have a black rotor arm with points and condenser (now changed to electronic ignition). 

[Gray14]

Oops, Senior Moment, spending too long on another forum. 

[Gray14]

Hi Dill, the AB14 ignition amplifier was fitted inside of the Lucas ignition amplifier to the later Excels. 

Are you getting a spark at the plugs? Is petrol pumping into the carbs, what condition are the carbs in, when were they last overhauled. Rebuild kits are available OE and cheaper alternatives.

 

[Denis247]

On 23/04/2023 at 21:42, Dill said:

Hi Gary I think mines is an older model, and doesn’t have this fitted. It’s not anywhere in the engine bay or under the car. I have a black rotor arm with points and condenser (now changed to electronic ignition). 

Can you revert back to points?, that would eliminate your electronic ignition. Another component known to give problems when hot is the coil.

[drdoom]

Change out the rotor arm, ideally to one which has been known good. I had one fail on my early Elan, confounded me for some time as it was tracking HT to earth via to the distributor shaft. The fail in the dielectric was nearly imperceptible, just a tiny dark spot on the arm underside.

Cheers