Questions regarding water pump (for 1990 SE)

[Mysterae]

After moving the Esprit out of the garage today I noticed a small pool of water on the garage floor, just about where the water pump would be. Having lifted and looked under the car there is some coolant around the pulley of the water pump. Even though the coolant loss is small, it's got to be fixed.

 

Looks like another job, oh joy! I do have one more week off work...

 

I've searched around the forum looking for pointers and read the service notes but a few questions remain:

 

1. It looks like the water pump can be removed with the engine in-situ, but how much of a pain is it? I replaced the vacuum pump not so long ago, looks like it'll have to come out again.

 

2. The service notes states that the engine has to be turned to the timing position. How necessary is this?

 

3. Rather than send the pump off for reconditioning, I'll refurb the pump myself with the kit from SJ's, despite reading this.

 

I'd be really grateful for any tips and image you may have.

[Vulcan Grey]

I've done it a few times.

 

1)Totally possible in-situ on the SE.  It is helpful if you remove the vacuum pump first.

 

2) the reason for having the engine in the TDC position is that you have to partially remove the oil pump pulley to remove one of the waterpump bolts...  So you are basically redoing the timing belt...  My pump failed right after replacing my timing belt...

 

3) you can buy a kit to rebuild the waterpump.  Usually the bearing is replaced, as well as the seal.  The seal needs a press tool to properly set the distance between seal and housing to shaft.

 

The bearing should be pressed in and out when the pump is hot, to prevent damage to the housing.  So place it in the oven for a while first each time.

 

Shaft with bearing seal and impeller 

 

Housing with pulley adapter

 

The new seal should be lubed with something like petroleum jelly to prevent damage until it is submerged in coolant.

[Mysterae]

Travis, many thanks as always.

 

Did you mention timing belt? Ah bugger. This may well end up in a "how to replace cam belt" thread, as the belt needs changing before the car is used on the road. If I go down the path of replacing the timing belt I may as well replace the other belts too. My confidence is growing but I still have a big dose of trepidation .

 

When removing and re-tightening the triple v pulley from the crankshaft, how do you ensure it doesn't move? 79 - 81Nm is a lot of force to apply. Is this triple v pulley keyed in the shaft in any way, and I presume (hopefully!) that it doesn't require pullers to remove.

 

Ah the wonderful world of the Esprit! Start one job, create 2 others! I think I'll rename my car Tangent .

[Vulcan Grey]

Don't tighten the crank pulley clamp bolt until after the timing belt is properly tensioned.

 

I usually have someone step on the brake pedal with the transmission in 5th gear to tighten and loosen that bolt.

 

The AUX pulley is keyed to the shaft. Usually needs a little rocking persuasion to remove, be careful, since it is aluminum.  Don't let this happen!

http://www.thelotusforums.com/forums/topic/65403-esprit-s4-engine-rattlenoisetapping/page-2

[Mike6]

Hang on, why do you need to remove the timing belt to replace the water pump. Removing the alternator will give you better visuals but that about it apart from one bolt on the water pump which is always a bugger to access. 

[Vulcan Grey]

the oil pump pulley hangs over one of the water pump bolts.  The oil pump pulley must be at least partially removed from the shaft to get enough clearance to remove that one water pump bolt.

 

[Mike6]

Ah, must be different on my carb turbo

[Sparky]

No, exactly the same. It's possible to do, but not wise as it can end in tears. Much better to get the aux sprocket out of the way. Yours may already have the modified bolt that makes removal easier.

[Mysterae]

Cheers for the pointers guys. Travis, again thanks for the images. I was searching the forum and internet for images of the front of the engine.

 

Considering that I'll be mucking about with the timing belt to do the water pump I've decided to replace all the belts including the timing belt, myself. Gulp! It's always been the nemesis job for me so it's going to fun . I'll start another thread and leave this one specifically about the water pump should I have anything to add.

 

 

 

 

 

[cbclotus]

Just looking through my notes by previous owner it shows 105/106 or 110 good luck Mike

[Mysterae]

Cheers Mike. I think you meant for this to be in my timing belt thread? I've just updated it too!

[bullit]

hi,  i replaced the shaft with a home made one,  and replaced the bearing with four normal

ball bearings.. it is working more than 100 k miles now.

(the seal  is still ok, so i did not replaced that)

Edited August 12, 2014 by bullit

[Mysterae]

Nice job Sietse, 

 

I have no such possibility of making my own so have opted for the refurb kit from SJ's:

 

 

I can't remember if the gaskets are part of the kit, should look at the paperwork. A little surprised at the paper gasket between the pump and engine block, thought it would have been permabond or something.

[Vulcan Grey]

I've sealed it with and without the gasket...  With gasket seemed better IMO.

[bullit]

is there no solution to replace or sealed of the housing, and use an electric pump

instead ?,  like the v8  usa engine use to do...  than you could  manage the streaming by microprosessor ?

i prob. go for that solution in the future if there are problems with the water pump....

vr gr  sietse

[Mysterae]

I've sealed it with and without the gasket...  With gasket seemed better IMO.

 

Thanks for the peace of mind Travis.

 

is there no solution to replace or sealed of the housing, and use an electric pump

instead ?,  like the v8  usa engine use to do...  than you could  manage the streaming by microprosessor ?

i prob. go for that solution in the future if there are problems with the water pump....

vr gr  sietse

 

Sietse, the thought did cross my mind. Not sure if many others have changed to an electric pump. Would the flow rate and head match, plus it would have to handle the +80C temperature of the coolant which shouldn't be a problem?

 

For now I'm happy refurbing the original pump, hopefully last another 100,000 miles.

[bullit]

Thanks for the peace of mind Travis.

 

 

Sietse, the thought did cross my mind. Not sure if many others have changed to an electric pump. Would the flow rate and head match, plus it would have to handle the +80C temperature of the coolant which shouldn't be a problem?

 

For now I'm happy refurbing the original pump, hopefully last another 100,000 miles.

 

for usa V8 (chevy, ford) it is a exchange  item, remove the old pump, and bolt on the electric one..so far so good,

what is the problem to get those pumps, bolt it on a "fake"engine plate, and put it somewere in de hose...(if there is place)

sk

[Mysterae]

Sietse, as you say, you'd need to manufacture a plate of sorts to mount on the block. I think this is the reason why nobody has done it before, that I know of.

 

I finally removed the cam sprocket that was blocking access to the final bolt of the water pump, my tribulations in this thread.

 

 

After a bit of wiggling and manoeuvring of the water pump I finally managed to remove it from under the car. Needs a good clean!

 

 

 

 

After a thorough clean it was time to refurb the pump. First, removal of the pulley hub (make a note of the distance between pump body and pulley adaptor before removing).

 

 

After a lot of pressure it's finally off.

 

 

After a quick heat up of the pump in the oven the old shaft/bearing/impeller is pressed out using the tool that came with the pump refurb kit from SJ's. The pump was heated up so that the casting of the pump didn't crack when pressing the bearing out. It took almost 5t of pressure to remove the old bearing, I really thought the casting was going to give.

 

 

But it didn't, and the bearing shaft etc removed with the casting intact . 

 

 

The seal of the pump is well past it's prime . Good to see that the refurb of the pump was required after all . The item above is now scrap as the refurb kit comes with all of the above.

 

The seal seat of the pump housing thankfully wasn't too badly corroded, just needed a clean up.

 

 

Pump casting heated up again and then the bearing shaft pressed in until the bearing is flush with the pump body.

 

 

The new seal prepared with petroleum jelly on the bottom part (to protect the rubber seal until it gets wet in use) and Loctite sealer and retainer on the top.

 

 

New seal pressed in to place (again, using the tool provided).

 

 

When the pump was in the oven heating up, the thermostat popped out, so it needed reseating/sealing. I watched the thermostat close as it cooled, so I know that part is working .

 

 

Pressed in the impeller (to a gap of 0.3mm) and the pulley adaptor to the size I measured earlier (5.9mm), with Loctite applied where necessary.

 

 

 

That's it complete! I now have a nice refurbed water pump ready to put back in the car  .

[bullit]

hi,

looks to me, a he... of a job to take off the w-pump while the engine is in the bay..

but doing nice , normaly you push the shaft out of the impellor..

i did not know if lotus manage the job in the opposit way..be shure, don't do it with other type pumps..

you did a good job alan. nice work

[Mysterae]

Cheers Sietse, it was an experience I'll say that. The key is to remove the rear hatch for access. Once the pump was released it was like a Chinese puzzle manoeuvring it out of the engine bay, but documented evidence that it can be done .

 

The kit came with a new impeller but I'm not sure why it's different, as in improved or the old one obsolete.

[Vulcan Grey]

I think it is for those people whose impellers had suffered cavitation or rust.

 

Good work btw.

[Mysterae]

Cheers Travis, I don't think I'd have attempted the job without your and this forum's help, it truly is invaluable! 

 

I've now refitted the pump, but not without incident. The paper gasket was pain to keep in place and refit the pump, so much so the paper gasket broke during manoeuvring the pump in to place. Rather than stop and wait for another gasket (and only for it to happen again!) I used Loctite SI 5699 Premium Silicone Grey Gasket Maker/Sealer, particularly for it's water glycol resistance. I'll be watching it closely, if it leaks like a sieve I'm prepared to strip it down and start again! 

 

An additional bit of info, a while ago someone recommended P-80 rubber lubricant for fitting rubber bushes as it's temporary - this stuff is also brilliant for fitting the rubber hoses back on . 

[eeyoreish]

So I'm facing a water pump dilemma...

Planning to change my cam belt next weekend and was going to replace the water pump for peace of mind as I've no record of it being changed before.

However, when I spoke to Steve at SJ he advised me not to change it unless there is a problem with the old one because (his words) the recon ones he has are not as good as the originals.

So, do I change it or not?

Since I can't access it before 'cambelt day' to check for old leaks and end float etc I have to decide whether to buy £100 worth of new pump just in case or risk not being able to finish the job on the day.

If the old one seems ok do I change it anyway for something that could be inferior??

[Vulcan Grey]

hmm, I agree that the new aren't necessarily better than the original design, but mine went at 50k miles... just after I changed the timing belt...

 

However, the worst thing is to leave it sitting dry for a while.  That will make it more likely to fail soon after, say for instance if the timing belt change took you a long time.

[eeyoreish]

The car has been off the road for a couple of years so not sure if that will have done any harm..?

To further complicate matters it seems there are 2 variants of the pump, one with a pressed on pulley and one with a threaded spigot. From what I can see with a torch and a mirror (!) mine is the threaded type I think.