Brake master cylinder?

[swindon_alan]

The brake fluid reservoir on the master cylinder on my '96 V8 got a whack in the accident and is split. Does anyone know if this cylinder is used elsewhere on other makes or models?

I'm really just after the reservoir but will buy the whole thing if necessary. S J Sportscars don't list either, so if anyone can point me in the right direction or has a spare kicking around that would be great.

[swindon_alan]

Phew, six days later I finally get this resolved

The problem with the reservoir is that the plastic tangs holding it down onto a pin on the cylinder have snapped off. Seeing as it's a teeny bit crucial on a car like this, I really need a good replacement.

Ok then, first up I ring all of the Lotus specialists. "Ooooh no sir", sharp intakes of breath through the teeth, silences on the phone. "no, they just don't exist mate". "You might be able to get the cap". Do what? "I will see if we have a reservoir taken off an old one" - and no, they didn't get back to me.

This seems a bit odd to me. There's no way Lotus would have specially comissioned a brake master cylinder/reservoir/servo set up just for the V8, it must be used on some other make and model surely? Probably in the thousands and thousands. So what is it?

First port of call is the parts manual of course. Not much help, Googling the Lotus part numbers gives almost zero hits, apart from an ages old ad for a secondhand master cyl.

The next thought is that perhaps it is related to the ABS somehow. The Owner's Manual states that this is a Kelsey-Hayes 415 unit. Let's have a nose around them. Ah, US made, presumably sourced through the GM ownership at the time. I found a nice diagnostics page on an American web site:

http://www.aa1car.com/library/abs_kelseyhayes.htm

This article explains that:

"In 1990, Kelsey-Hayes introduced a new four-wheel anti-lock braking system (EBC4) on General Motors M- and L-series minivans (Chevrolet Astro and GMC Safari). General Motors refers to the system as 4WAL. The following year 4WAL was offered on the S- and T-series trucks (Chevy Blazer, GMC Jimmy 4-door) and the GMC Syclone. In 1992, the four-wheel anti-lock braking system was added to the two-door S- and T-series trucks, Suburban, full-size Blazer/GMC Yukon, Geo Tracker and the limited-production GMC Typhoon."

Trawling around eBay.com for those vehicles returns brake cylinders and reservoirs completely unlike that in the parts diagram. So that's a dead end.

Time to give my repair man a call and get him to dig out my broken parts and see if there are any identifying marks.

He comes back with the info cast into the body of the cylinder, on one side it has 'Bendix 23' on the other what appears to be 'FC 2  8008 311902'. Hmm, that doesn't give any hits on Google, but now at least I know that it is a Bendix. Photos follow.

Forward and on, I try eBay for Bendix master cylinders in the UK, Europe and US and don't find anything similar. Except...something vaguely familiar about a SEAT Ibiza 1994 item. Ok, let's try the European manufacturers, particularly Opel, SEAT, Volkswagen. Nothing. Let's try every Vauxhall model made in the 90's then for the GM connection. Nope. Give up for the night.

Today I had to drop some secondhand spares off at the repairers that I picked up last night, so I asked the parts man to dig out the reservoir for me.

"Oh" he says. "It's got a part number on the reservoir, L481376, let's try that on eBay"

BINGO!

It's off...

...a Peugot 406 

The reservoir is definitely similar, but the master cylinder has four outlets. Interesting. I hightail it home to see if I can find any more on eBay. Yep, here's one with the same reservoir and two outlets:

So presumably there are two versions, ABS and non-ABS? I could probably dig around and find a new reservoir but this will do me for now, give it a clean up and it should be fine on the old master cylinder.

I am therefore 99% certain that the '96 to '97 (not sure about '98 on) Esprit V8 brake master cylinder is also used on:

1995-2002 Peugot 406 2.0 16V non-ABS

...unless anybody else know better of course 

And you can guess that there are bucketloads of these available on eBay, just a quick look came up with three aftermarket manufacturers:

SORTED

[glynherron]

Good boy. Well done!

[Vulcan Grey]

Nice job.  You should add that to the list here.

http://www.thelotusforums.com/forums/forum/108-misc-including-parts-cross-references/

[swindon_alan]

Done

[ramjet]

[Vanya]

Awesome find. Good work. 

[jonwat]

Well done, stick the reservoir in the dishwasher it'll come out like new

[Winter]

Impressive perseverence.  A characteristic of Lotus ownership . . .

[j900jpw]

Nice work! Thanks for sharing!

[swindon_alan]

Cheers gentlemen!

I really enjoy doing this sort of detective work. I have done a similar thing for the windscreen washer bottle and the cooling fan motors, will post those up too soon.

Well done, stick the reservoir in the dishwasher it'll come out like new

That's a great tip John, thanks very much. I will put that and the washer bottle in after I have given my good lady my credit card to go clothes and shoe shopping...

Oh and this arrived today. Yep, definitely the right reservoir and cylinder. The only slight difference is the servo mounting flange shape, but I don't think that matters. If you look at the ones in the second thread post there are a selection of aftermarket round and squares to choose from anyway.

 

[swindon_alan]

All ready to go on

[Chillidoggy]

Another cracking post, thoroughly enjoyed reading it, and just the kind of determination required!

[Vanya]

Hey Alan,

What's the bore size on the V8 master? I'm checking eBay for repair kits and there seems to be one compatible with bendix cylinders with a 23.8 mm bore:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Peugeot-406-Brake-Master-Cylinder-Repair-Kit-M1260-/310845946777?fits=Car+Make%3APeugeot|Model%3A406&hash=item485fdcbb99:g:huEAAOxyIYhSU8K

I wanna have this on the shelf just in case  

[swindon_alan]

On 25/10/2015 20:07:13, Vanya said:

Hey Alan,

What's the bore size on the V8 master? I'm checking eBay for repair kits and there seems to be one compatible with bendix cylinders with a 23.8 mm bore:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Peugeot-406-Brake-Master-Cylinder-Repair-Kit-M1260-/310845946777?fits=Car+Make%3APeugeot|Model%3A406&hash=item485fdcbb99:g:huEAAOxyIYhSU8K

I wanna have this on the shelf just in case  

Hello Vanya

Apologies, only just noticed this. I've just taken my spare non-usable ABS one apart (aren't circlip pliers a wonderful invention?) and my trusty vernier gauge tells me that the bore diameter is indeed 23.8 mm

[Vanya]

Cheers man!

[Giniw]

Sorry for the up  @swindon_alan, but do you happen to know whether the servo is from the 406 as well?

(Actually it makes sense the master cylinder is the same as the 406 since the front brembo are (about?) the same too)

 

 

edit: I just had a look at a few photos and I would say it looks quite similar, with the obvious difference being the rod fork length (it looks longer on the Esprit) but on the other hand, a random servo is still quite similar to an other random servo!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/163351340790 <= that would be a V8 servo

https://pmt5.com/en/moskva/parts/hoved-bremsesylinder-with-brake-booster-vacuum-15025 <= that would be a 406 servo

Edited November 8, 2019 by Giniw

[swindon_alan]

@Giniw I spent quite a lot of time on this a while back trying to reconcile V8 ('96/'97 and post '98) servos but never actually got to the bottom of it. I have a folder full of Bosch Peugeot 406 master cylinders and servo pictures with "mebbe" against them for the earlier type. I think the problem is that their is only a Lotus part number sticker and no manufacturer information and as you noticed, there are differences. My gut feeling is that Lotus had a variant supplied from Bosch. If you can nail it that would be great, otherwise I will get back to it again at some point!