Standard vs close ratio gearbox - advice appreciated

[LazyDonkey]

i can't remember what mine looks like - 3 weeks and counting it's been away

[the83man]

I didn't even consider which gearbox was fitted to mine when I bought it but that was probably because I hadn't realised that there was a choice. I now know that I've driven cars with both boxes and, to be honest, I hadn't really noticed any difference but clearly I didn't necessarily drive them both as hard as I could. 

 

My car has the CR box and 3rd gear is amazing. Even though it is CR I rarely get into 6th except on the motorway where cruising at a sensibe speed is very comforatble.

 

Seeing the theoretical top speeds in 4-6 on the standard box it does seem to me that the CR box is better matched to the overall package but my own experiences and those of others in this thread do not in any way make the standrad box a 'wrong' choice. With 6 ratios at least one of them is bound to right for what you are currently trying to do with the car. Ask anyone with a four speed box in a clasic Lotus!  

Edited May 13, 2015 by the83man

[LazyDonkey]

One thing we haven't mentioned is that the long box cars are faster - they do 262mph !

 

POWAAAAAAAA

 

[Stuno1]

MY12 onwards had CR as standard.

 

This shows the main difference...

 

 

Taken from here

http://wiki.seloc.org/a/2GR-FE_Gearboxes

 

So there is a difference of 15 mph at max revs in 3rd.  15 mph!   Not 50.  

 

I think we need to get it into context though, as i said before the long box doesn't ruin the car - far from it.  It does make it a lovely long legged GT car when you want it to be though. 

 

Remember articles like this were written with a "long" box in the car

http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarreviews/241450/lotus_evora.html

 

Not trying to get into an argument over which is best, that's pointless - just try to say that the long box doesn't ruin the car or make it a waste of time.

Good post. Thanks for this info.

Stu

[mdavies]

Pierre, no hard feelings. Lotus ratios are always enjoyable anyway!  Mel

[Beady]

I have the CR box and I did a back to back test with a long box at one stage - I made a note of the revs at motorway speeds.

In 6th gear:

 

standard box:

70mph = approx. 1850 revs

80 mph = 2150/2200 revs

 

CR box:

70 mph = 2500 revs

80mph = 2850 revs

 

Additionally - on a long run / motorway - the CR box probably loses about 5mpg, perhaps slightly more than standard. But if that concerns anyone then surely you are looking at the wrong car in the first place

 

Before I made my final choice (I bought from new) I spoke to a lotus engineer at the factory about the differences. His advice was that the CR box was definitely the one to have as it was much better suited to the car.

 

On faster back roads when you spend a lot of time in 3rd gear and need a quick overtake I think the CR box is probably better.

You need a back to back test to really feel the difference but having a CR box already, it would be top of my list if I were to change

 

good luck

[cweeden]

I think this earlier post accurately echoes my thoughts.

 

"I have the standard box on mine and have never wished I had the close ratio........... until I took it on track a couple of weeks ago and them I kept wishing they were a bit closer (especially after a go on my brother's s2 exige which seemed massively closer).

So I suppose it depends what you want to use it for. For mainly road driving I think both are fine, standard probably better if you do lots of motorway or duel carriageway, close ratio if you are going to take it on track a lot.

For me I wouldn't let it hold me back if I found a car I really liked"

 

cheers

 

-Chris

[Gravel]

I wonder how much more it would add to the price of a clutch change to have just the 6th gear cog from the standard box added to a CR box?

[21gg]

My old NA went back to the factory to have the standard box taken out out and the CR put in.  As it was under warranty they just swapped the gearbox other than that I was hoping to get the CR 1-5th and SR 6th. 

The CR box seems to give revs more where you would expect them over the SR box, so to me its more like standard gears and long gears. The only thing I noticed with the standard box at 30mph (from memory) I couldn't decide if it wanted to be in 3rd or 4th. Ultimately the CR is now standard, so from a resale point of view it could be argued that its the better option. Realsiticaly I don't think it makes a great deal of difference unless your going to be doing lots of motorway miles.

 

Gav

[mdavies]

As I stand far from the balanced views covered variously above - ok, I accept that, no point in arguing - I had no intention of posting again on the matter, but for one statement made above that, from my own experience, could seriously mislead.

 

I was one of the first to try out the very first Launch Edition Evora delivered to the first dealer. (I happened to be at B&C that evening and photographed it moments after it was unloaded.)

 

Shortly afterwards I tried it out, but did not bother with more than a few miles. I was incredulous that such a gearbox - the launch long box - could be fitted to a Lotus. I refused to go on with my pre-order unless I could try out and then obtain a CR box, mentioned to me.  I subsequently went to Hethel to ensure for myself that it was indeed radically, not marginally, different,

 

The magazines had been full of praise of the Launch car, as the EVO article mentioned above. I recall just one saying in their article that it was fitted with the CR box; I don't think most did. (Might it not have been highlighted to them by Lotus?)

 

A few months later I was at the Academy; at lunch I explored the question persistently, expressing my amazement about the Launch box to a couple of the Lotus instructors. I most told, most emphatically, that EVERY car for media tests had been fitted with the CR box.  Anyone reading the EVO article or other reviews might like to bear that in mind.

 

I am aware of the sensitivity of the matter. If any potential purchaser tries out both boxes and does not make an immediate decision, then I suppose it does not really matter for them.   Enjoy whatever is right for you.

Edited May 14, 2015 by mdavies

[Hiro996]

Thanks again to everyone - lots of great information there.

 

I would read one post and think 'the standard gearbox' will be better for me as I can see the benefit of a longer 3rd on country lanes, then another post would arrive and the contents made me think 'I have to have a close ratio gearbox' - I've been going round and round with both of those thoughts!

 

I have decided I need to drive both types again and pay more attention to how each drives in 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th before I make a decision on a particular example.

 

Why didn't they just offer one gearbox - I've never had this much trouble deciding on a model of car before!

[CocoPops]

They didn't because it cost money.

The standard box was a Toyota diesel gearbox (hence ratios).

The cr box had custom machined ratios, so until they started selling the cars they couldn't justify costs.

[series_one]

6 cannot be dropped into the CRB as the rev drop is way way too big to 5th. The gearbox team at Hethel graphed all this for me already. The drop is not practical in any sense, the term 'overdrive' would not even be close. 4 and 5th are machined together on one shaft so no changing just 5 and 6th either to make it workable. I have been through this in detail with Motorsport in Hethel. Both boxes are enjoyable, I would be happy with either. 

[Escape]

6 cannot be dropped into the CRB as the rev drop is way way too big to 5th. The gearbox team at Hethel graphed all this for me already. The drop is not practical in any sense, the term 'overdrive' would not even be close. 4 and 5th are machined together on one shaft so no changing just 5 and 6th either to make it workable. I have been through this in detail with Motorsport in Hethel. Both boxes are enjoyable, I would be happy with either. 

 

Yes, the drop from close ratio 5th to long ratio 6th would be big, but that doesn't have to mean it's useless IMHO. One could use the first 5 close gears to take off and go, and switch to 6th when at cruising speed. I regularly skip 4th after accelerating to legal speed in 3rd, as I don't see the point in going to 4th and immediately afterwards to 5th. In the Esprit this gives me the revs and boost I want for accelerating, and a relaxed drive once at speed. And even the V8 in the heavy Range Rover doesn't mind.

Sorry if this is to OT, I'm very interested in the matter, having played around with the gearing of both Land Rovers and my previous Esprit SE. I changed the ratio for 5th to the longer V8 one, and plan to do the same on my current car, as I liked the decrease in revs at (highish) cruising speeds. So adding a long 6th to 5 close ratios seems like a good idea to have a very dynamic car that is good for long distances as well.

 

Filip

[Gravel]

6 cannot be dropped into the CRB as the rev drop is way way too big to 5th. The gearbox team at Hethel graphed all this for me already. The drop is not practical in any sense, the term 'overdrive' would not even be close. 4 and 5th are machined together on one shaft so no changing just 5 and 6th either to make it workable. I have been through this in detail with Motorsport in Hethel. Both boxes are enjoyable, I would be happy with either. 

 

Thanks - that is interesting to know!

[series_one]

I'll dig up the graph with the above combo and post up the drop, it was something huge like 4k rpm. I really have been through this ad nauseam with the gearbox people at Lotus, believe me if it was simple I would have done it already. I am very particular about how I like my Evora to drive and optimising it. Changing only to the long 5 and 6 would work but you cant because 4th and 5th gears are physically one piece. The only way to get the 'optimal' box (per my feeling) is to get a bespoke shaft of a different ratio 4 and 5 machined up, which works with both the CRB 3rd and will get you to the standard box 6 with a nice spread of rpm. When I have this done I will post up and if others want to get the same done then it should be straight forward to make more. 

 

I emphasise again - both boxes are GOOD.

 

Whichever you have it's an AWESOME car to drive. Simply sometimes you may wish for quieter cruising if you are touring in Europe (CRB), and sometimes you may wish for a shorter 3rd when hammering certain tracks or passes (Std B).

 

 

With 55,000km last year alone in Evora's I think I have a good feeling for this 

[Al]

I have had 2 long and 2 short with the present being an S.  The longs came on a LE and subsequent car.  I never at the time thought I was missing something and I felt I was driving faster than the Boxster S (3.2) at the time I was driving.  I was doing more runs to Aberdeen and back as well and the quietness and fuel consumption were probably the things I noticed most when went CR. 

 

I only rarely do track work and didn't then at all so was happy.  The open back road blasts which make up much of my driving never felt lacking.  That said like others now I have CR I much preferred it.  It is horses for courses and if the slipper fits then wear it and you will not be disappointed.

 

Like an earlier post says.  All Launch Press cars were fitted with CR boxes even although not available or even initially known about to us early adopters who had orders down over a year in advance.  I was even at Cameron house when the press were driving them and sat in them and they never said even although I had a year old order in.  The whole conundrum came along about a year after launch.

[C8RKH]

I have a CR box on a 2010 NA. I've only ever driven one Evora, the one I bought from MMC!  So no idea what difference th SR/LR box would make.

 

I may be just the luckiest man alive or just really easily pleased, but every time I open my garage and see that lovely big curvy bootilicious arse with her big rubber boots on, just begging me to take it for a drive, I honestly do not think I would care if she had a CR or an SR box.

 

Just buy the one that suits you the best, look at it and drool all over it - coz everyone else will  , but most importantly, just drive it - you'll not be disappointed with either option on normal roads where she will probably spend 90%+ of her mileage whether you track her or not.  

[series_one]

Yeah!! ^^

 

I'm going out now to see that and drive her     

 

I LOVE THIS CAR!   Have a great weekend all!

[Escape]

I'll dig up the graph with the above combo and post up the drop, it was something huge like 4k rpm.

 

Not wanting to get into an argument, but I ran the figures on the previous page through the gearbox calculator I use, and the results look very reasonable.

CR5 to LR6 would see about 30% drop in revs. Clearly a big drop. But not that much of a problem in use I'd think.

At 120kph/75mph CR5 will equal 3000rpm, going to LR6 would see that drop to 2000rpm (compared to 2700rpm for CR6). Which seems fine for cruising?

[Hiro996]

Hi all, quick update - I have driven both the close ratio and standard gearbox and paid more attention to the gears this time! This is of course only my opinion and I do not even own as Evora yet so I'm not exactly an expert to say the least. However, for me the standard gear box felt more suited to my driving but the difference was no where near as extreme as I expected - I found it very difficult to notice any difference in third with regards to acceleration between the two. 

 

What I did notice though was when travelling down country lanes I found I could hold 3rd for longer (even though it still felt like it was pulling just as well as the short ratio box) and first and second are exactly the same (as mentioned by a number of very helpful people on this forum!).

 

I also like the fact I can cruise in 6th comfortably on the motorway at 70mph (or maybe slightly more - 71!) and the noise was minimal and the engine was not being stressed at all and although not top of my list when buying a sports car (I've had an RX-8 R3 in the past so that should be proof enough!) I do like the prospect of a potential extra 5 mpg!

 

I am sure, as mentioned by others on the forum, if I was to participate in track days the close ratio box would be better but for me personally the standard box was great.

 

Thanks once more for all the comments - they were all extremely helpful and made me consider the gear box properly while driving.

[Hiro996]

I am sure most people already know this but for those who do not...

 

It has been bugging me as to why I when I drove an Evora with a standard gearbox in 4th gear it felt a lot stronger than an Evora with a close ratio gearbox in 6th gear depite the ratio's being almost identical (0.8611 for the close ratio gearbox in 6th gear and 0.86 for the standard gearbox in 4th gear). As I mentioned above, for me personally I found the standard gearbox to be the better option but thought I must have been missing something as others prefer the close ratio gears so I wanted to be sure my feeling was correct!

 

Then I worked it out! The final drive in gears 1-4 is different to the final drive in gears 5-6 so although the 6th gear in the standard box matches 4th in the close ratio the final drive is different so 4th in the standard gear box is actually geared lower then 5th in the sports ratio box when you take the final drive into account. The result is that 3rd, 4th and 5th in the standard gear box are more like 3.5, 4.5 and 5.5 in the close ratio gearbox.

 

The IPS box is different in that it has only a single final drive ratio so it's actually geared lower than the close ratio box in gears 1, 2 and 3 and then sits in between the standard and close ratio gear box in gears 4, 5 and 6.

 

Once again apologies if you already know this but I thought I'd share it for those, like me, who wondered what was going on!

[Escape]

You're right, the final drive ratio does make a difference.

Looking at the figures, LR 3 sits between CR 3 and 4, or 3.5 as you put it.

LR 4 is pretty close to CR 5 (about 3% lower) and LR 5 is already longer then CR 6 (more like 6.5).

 

If anyone would like the excel-file I use for calculations, just let me know.