VW faking emissions tests in USA?

[ramjet]

8 hours ago, pete said:

So the EU have now decided to allow diesel cars to emit double the legal limit in real driving .

Someone folded.

In reality, we expected any different?

[Andyww]

No, because the EU is essentially governed by Germany. Everything is loaded in favour of German industry. Industry there is given all kinds of subsidies and protection which are not allowed in other countries.

One example of the German bias is the EU bangs on about renewable energy but the price of solar power is higher in the EU than outside because the EU imposes a minimum price on PV panels to protect German manufacturers.

The Chinese are racing towards ever-cheaper solar power which doesn't need subsidy but the EU will have none of it.

[Jacques]

one more reason to resign from being a member of said organisation.

Jacques.

[Kimbers]

So it appears like VW have been at it throughout their brands as Porsche is now being investigated in America and a whole raft of new models has been added to the list of "interferred with cars". Isn't it funny that the "Total transparancy" VW promised doesn't seem to be forthcoming!!

As for the EU pandering to Germany. The money and Political bias has always come from Germany, with a snippet of France. The EU is just another FIFA in the making!!

 

And here we go. Now they are finding "irregularities" in Co2 readings.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34712435

 

[ChrisJ]

CO2 levels and Petrol engines now as well

Telegraph

Quote

The car emissions scandal at Volkswagen has widened to include petrol engines, as the company made further admissions.

The German car giant disclosed that an internal investigation in the wake of the rigging of diesel emissions tests had found that another 800,000 vehicles showed “inconsistencies” – this time related to carbon dioxide emissions and including petrol engines.

The tests-rigging scandal has so far focused on nitrogen oxide emissions in diesel cars, involving 11m vehicles worldwide. Most of the cars implicated have featured bigger engines, and  included 3-litre and Porsche diesel cars, according to fresh allegations in the US on Monday. VW denied those claims.

Tuesday’s findings over carbon dioxide emissions, and petrol-fuelled cars, are understood to involve smaller 1.4-litre engines, mostly in the VW Polo and Golf, as well some Seat and Skoda cars, and the Audi A1 and A3.

The company said it would “endeavour to clarify the further course of action as quickly as possible and ensure the correct CO2 classification for the vehicles affected” with the responsible authorities.

“The board of management of Volkswagen deeply regrets this situation and wishes to underscore its determination to systematically continue along the present path of clarification and transparency,” it added.

 

[ramjet]

So if most other countries left the EU? Where would that leave Germany and whoever else decided to stay? I presume the EU is to govern inter-country trade deals etc? Mind you, from the above, this seems to be greatly biased.

[Andyww]

20 hours ago, Kimbers said:

The EU is just another FIFA in the making!!

 

 

Thats a good parallel. Fact is, corruption in many other EU countries is tolerated more than in the UK, which tends to follow the USA model. 

I know of one case where a German company bought into a contract with a blatant bribe. It was concerned with trains for a certain Asian city. The contract was confirmed as going to Alstom but at the very last minute it was suddenly torn up and changed to the German company concerned. This company now has most of the Asian market, no doubt by similar means.

The EU even appointed a president who has a history of tolerating corruption.

[Kimbers]

Corruption aside (I do agree BTW) how on earth can they justify this statement?

“The board of management of Volkswagen deeply regrets this situation and wishes to underscore its determination to systematically continue along the present path of clarification and transparency,” it added.

What transparency is that then? Because there is no way this has happened without knowledge and leadership from at least the Product and Engineering Directors, plus everyone in their departments, plus the boss, which then makes it a board issue, plus everyone designing and engineering the cars. And yet they have tried to pin it on a few people!! And how much detail have you heard about the investigation? Nowt, Nada, Niente, zippo!

I won't say I told you so (even though I did lol) but my logic was that not only is NoX linked to Co2 directly but any company who can basically commit fraud on such a massive level to ensure it's unclean engines look clean enough to meet NoX regulations in the USA, would not hesitate to do the same for Co2 to meet regulations in Europe, where Co2 is the measure taken and, lets not forget, charged/tax on their products!

[ChrisJ]

Whenever I see/hear the word "Transparency" or the phrase "Lessons well be learnt" - I know that it is exactly the opposite!

[Barrykearley]

What a complete and utter shambles - I really do hope that this bad smell hangs around VW for a very very long time.

this will be quelled down as much as possible by the merkel witch - nows the time for the Eu renegotiations and exit.....

[Jacques]

"Transparency" or the phrase "Lessons well be learnt"

It's just another phrase for:

a/: finding new ways to cheat.

b/: arming themselves with armies of laywers WHO in a courtcase will plead not guilty, and

c/: those same laywers will afterwards "interpretate" any judge's descision in any way they want to avoid paying for damages etc.

d/: Money talks and business can go on as always. Nothing changed.

I think that the ec (for once), the arabian coalition, the US incl. Canada and the panasian countries should get up on the beat and really use this oppertunity to cleanse the dirty business out of existence. If a Company will not obey to a law in effect, then they are guilty. And if someone is guilty, they should be punished accordingly. Not only for their breaking of a law(-s), but also because of the damage they may have done. And finally also, and this is important, because of the moral aspect of it all. Returning to vag, this case is so far only the top of the iceberg. Time may (if investigation is done and done propperly, reveal so much more.

Now, don't tell me that vag didn't know about this. Hearing the North American vag boss stating on air, that only 2-3 individuals knew about this, is an outright absurdity. I find it execessively appauling, that someone will dare stating such an answer. I Wonder what that same man would say, if he was questioned yet Again?

 Anyway, he was under oath, but so what? If you have enough Money, you are above the law. So is vag.

10% further Down on the stock market (125 - 115) on top of the already deep fall, is not a nice thing, displaying yet more mistrust in the vag Company. Auch, their plan about telling all and everything sems to have limitations?

Come on VAG, put yourself together and do the right thing, if you want to stay in business.

Actually, I am not on a crusade against vag as such, but I am very very much against what they have done. And continue to do. Lying, cheating, breaking Laws, bribe, drugs, prostitution, human trafficking etc. It all adds up.

Hmm, I Wonder how many other Companies also do something like this, in one way or another?

Cheers,

Jacques.

[Jacques]

ps: I Wonder when Angel Merkel will actually act on this, and do it in the open?

edit: Nah, I don't Wonder really...

Jacques.

[Jacques]

Just read on Danish news, that the German Minister of Transportation said today, that the results of VAG's own internal investigations, are unacceptable.

Hmm. Now, WHO should investigate vag? The German ministry of Transportation?

Hmm. Have German politicians been exposed in having tight connections to vag? Yes. And they were forced to get out of vag.

Hmm. Were they exposed in doing exactly the same Again only a few years later? Yes.

Honestly, I begin to have a Little less fate in the way democracy is managed these days.

Now, I like democracy, but it seems that politicians and big Companies also like democracy too. A Little too much, I'd say. Because they can

 

CHEAT! Greedy bastards. And that my friends, is btw. also an 11'th Century german Word for cheating.

Cheers,

Jacques.

 

 

 

 

[Jacques]

In local press, it is stated, that vw have suddenly found several employed engineers, WHO alledgedly worked on the cheating equipment because, as they stated: "they were afraid of Martin Winterkorn, WHO demanded emissions to be cut with 30 percent". It appears to be one of the engineers themselves WHO spoke out. The involved persons will be sacked and the person WHO exposed said story, will still be employed, it was said by a vag spokesman. It was also said, that tested cars would have a mixture of petrol and diesel to make them drive longer per liter, along with overinflated tires etc.

Hmm, washing their hands?

Jacques.

[Andyww]

I do think it is plausible that a very few people knew about this. I think the most likely scenario was an engineer, or small team which had an idea on how to beat the system and didnt think through the full consequences. I say this despite being an engineer myself who has written firmware for automotive controllers (but it want me :)).

Its the way creative peoples minds work, think of a solution to a problem and devise something to implement it, while being focused on the problem at hand rather than the bigger picture of its implications. 

This almost sounds like I am defending VAG. Trying hard not to.....

[Jacques]

ha ha. Yes, Things can happen, and surely there was a Group og engineers WHO thought this out, but what I don't like is the total lack of discrimination of what said "Development" are leading to, as well as a total lack of management.

And now vag seems to wash their hands of decimate their employees.

Cheers,

Jacques.

[march]

I would be surprised if it was limited to such a small group. What about the Quality Control, Quality Assurance, Change Management, Project Management processes amongst others, wouldn't someone have picked this feature up?

Coming from an IT Technical Project Management background I would be very surprised if no-one amongst these disciplines had not figured it out.

[oneshot]

Wow - haven't seen that since it was pinned on my notice board in the late 80's!! I still have a copy somewhere.

[Kimbers]

VW now admit the programme was deliberately inserted because it was too expensive and they didn't have enough time to develop engines that met USA regulations.

Does that mean they won't be fighting the huge fines coming their way from the US govt?

http://www.just-auto.com/news/volkswagen-comes-clean-over-us-diesel-farce_id165707.aspx

 

[Jacques]

Wauw! didn't read that. As late as yesterday, it was printed in Danish medias, that vag admitted that 9 bossed knew and approved the cheating, and were suposedly sacked.

Very interesting Development.

Thanks for posting Kimbers,

Cheers,

Jacques.

[Barrykearley]

Just got to show what a load of rollocks all the Paris climate change talks are about.

hmmm Mrs. Merkel - your country and companies are corrupt  - your response is ? 

 

 

How much NOX emmisions have the German companies lied about

 

 

What at you going to do bout the migrant crisis ?

 

 

Hmmm - about time we relegated the German governments opinion to the very bottom league 

[Jacques]

I think the countries surrounding Germany and other countries suffering Germany's idea of helping arabs to escape their own choice of leadership combined with an ill-fated socalled religion, should sue Germany for every single euro it has cost them because of Germany and fraulein Merkel's ill-fated fantasy monster: the ec. War reparations or pay backs or what ever it's called, in this comparison was ?? But surely it would be costly by now. Sue the shit out of them. Then maybe Germany can learn once and for all not to want to dominate Europe? I am so tired of Germany trying to do that again and again.

I will not contribute any more to germanys one World government ideas, so no more vw for me, thanks.

Kind regards,

Jacques.

[Barrykearley]

Yup - not a single German purchase for me going forwards - they can stuff it

[swindon_alan]

You will have to forsake your love of frankfurters and Beck's...

[ramjet]

Unt Kranski's ven skiing at da schnow.......