VW faking emissions tests in USA?

[steve930]

well it appears my van is affected !

The letter is now taking residence in my shredder

[CocoPops]

Same letter for my Audi.

[Barrykearley]

Seems to be missing the bit where it's says the "upgrade" will probably shag the performance !!

[mdw]

me too.

[tinywillyuk]

One here for the misses Audi too.  That's one hell of a postage bill..

[Bibs]

 

[ramjet]

Would they have done anything if they hadn't been caught out though?

Edited October 24, 2015 by ramjet

[Bibs]

Like for the last several years? 

[ramjet]

Exactly.....

[steve930]

This is the first correspondence I've had from vw, where the queens appointment logo is also used ? ?

[Bibs]

It's a family thing  

[ramjet]

And if it has the Queens logo on it, you'll be pleasant and thoughtful of how difficult it is for VW?

[DanR]

Haven't read everything posted so may have already been raised. Maybe once it gets to court there's some loophole to the effect that the diesel engines must meet emission standards "when tested". Which they did. Cars can't be tested under everyday driving conditions which can be quite variable.

[ramjet]

Doesn't an admission of 'We were wrong' succeed what the standard reads? The 'when tested' statement has been mentioned somewhere that I have seen.

[Jacques]

It seems that since 1990, vw Group borrowed some 34.000.000.000,00 DKR from the European Investment bank EIB, of which they still miss to pay back apprx. 13.000.000.000,00 DKR. That bank is on the verge of demanding all of it back now, as the Investment was, to an extent, meant for developing environmentally friendly engines. Which they clearly did not do.

At the same time, vw Group suppered a devaluation of their credit from S&P one notch, to A-. They may lower even two more notches, which is quite bad.

It seems that vw topbosses try to smear off the responsibility of it all on a few softwareengineers. If that is really what happened, vw Group must have a shockingly bad management. Which I don't think they do.

vw are currently reducing their costs onmany leveles, from cancelling footballstadiums to cutting Down on Development costs for billions of euro er an.

At the same time one of the biggest banks in Denmark (Nykredit) stated, that since 20 % of the total Danish export goes to germany, Danish economy will be affected long term.

German ZEW lowers their economy rating of vw from 12,1 to 1,9 in just one month, which is double of what was expected.

Consequences begin to show.

Cheers,

Jacques.

[Kimbers]

Death to Diesel. Hateful combustion process. May we hear the death rattle of its tractor sound and sickle-cell PV curves for the final time. 

My 308 GT Diesel puts out 400NM of torque at a (proved not cheated) 103g/km Co2 and I average 55mpg (unless I am using said torques when it is nearer 45mpg). Frankly I love diesels. BTW, it has a Sound coverter so doesn't even sound like a diesel, it sounds like a V8....from the inside. Who cares on the outside! I can't hear it!

I know the why does NoX effect Co2 question has already been answered but NoX and Co2 have a direct correlation. When one goes up the other comes down. Hence when VW reprogram their cars to get the NoX to safe levels they have announced they will have to fit new bigger and better Catalytic Converters, thus restricting exhaust flow which has a direct correlation to HP/Fuel economy and of course lowers Co2.

Now why did I go through all this again cause I've already mentioned it? Well, has anyone taken into account 13 million Catalytic converters and the costs? I mean, even 1.1 million in this country will cost what? A billion? But VW have only put aside 5Billion so far for everything. I think the fines will be more than that.

I really do think you may see some sales of assets. If it was anyone else other than VW then I really think they would go to the wall.

Edited October 15, 2015 by Kimbers

[Escape]

My 308 GT Diesel puts out 400NM of torque at a (proved not cheated) 103g/km Co2 and I average 55mpg (unless I am using said torques when it is nearer 45mpg). Frankly I love diesels. BTW, it has a Sound coverter so doesn't even sound like a diesel, it sounds like a V8....from the inside. Who cares on the outside! I can't hear it!

55mpg on a diesel equals 135g/km CO2. 45mpg equals 166gr/km CO2. Somehow everyone keeps making a distinction between fuel consumption and CO2 emissions, when it's really the same thing: http://www.ecoscore.be/en/how-calculate-co2-emission-level-fuel-consumption

Don't take this personal Kimbers, it just keeps amazing me that in all the discussions about emissions this is hardly ever mentioned. And yet so obvious and important, you cannot change the laws of physics...

As an aside, but very much on topic: in Belgium lawyers are preparing a class action against VW, claiming the users of the affected cars would suffer from worse fuel economy. When in fact the software does the exact opposite: allowing good fuel economy and performance while still emission regulations in test conditions. As said before, any cars that are recalled and 'corrected' will probably suffer on performance and/or economy.

To be clear, I'm no fan of VW or diseasels, I just don't see this as a heinous crime against mankind, but rather as an example of companies pushing the legal boundaries until they break the rules.

Filip 

[sailorbob]

A rather glaringly obvious error with that website's mpg to CO2 conversion is that it assumes there's no CO produced.

Also, the reason Kimbers gets 135 g/km (I haven't checked that value) rather than the official 103 g/km is because it's from real world driving which does produce different results to the New European Driving Cycle (NEDC). This difference is one of the reasons why governments want to change the NEDC test to one that more closely simulates the actual driving conditions the cars encounter on the road. 

All diesels perform differently on the road when compared to the tests.

[Escape]

CO levels from Euro4 on are max 0.5gr/km for diesel and max 1.0gr/km for petrol, so will not affect the CO2 result.

All cars perform differently on the the road compared to the tests, no argument there. And I also agree better, more representative tests should be the way forward. But you can't go and claim emissions of 103gr/km CO2 while at the same time admitting to 55 or 45mpg. You wouldn't claim fuel costs of #€/km (or £/mi) based on the mpg stated in the brochure when you know real usage gives 25 to 50% less mpg either. To me, it's the same with emissions. Actual fuel consumption is all that matters for CO2 emissions. Other components, like NOx, are more variable, which could account for big differences between tests and real life usage even without the VW software trick.

Filip

[Andyww]

People seem to be missing the fact that VW have not simply bent the rules a little further than anyone else regards test results vs real world. They deliberately built in a detection method that the car is being tested. Thats a clearly-defined factor which makes them different from the general situation. Thus far, it has not been discovered that any other manufacturer did this, although we cant rule it out.

[sailorbob]

VW don't write the software in the ecu, Bosch do.

[Andyww]

Bosch write the base reference-design software in the ECU but the mapping is done by the car manufacturer. Its uncertain whether the flag which detected testing exists in the base software or not. There have been some reports that it is present but Bosch told manufacturers not to use it for production cars. There doesnt seem to be any blame being attached to Bosch.

[Kimbers]

Wow, this just goes on and on!

2.4 million German cars recalled, compulsory. German Watchdog refused VW's proposal to let owners bring them in Voluntarily (which in itself seems a cheeky way to get round this, knowing that many owners will choose not to do it because they don't want the effects of slower speed and less mpg). This may answer a question asked earlier. If you don't take your vehicle in to get a "critical recall" done it can null-en-void your warranty.

Italian Police have raided VW Italy and Lambo on Commercial Fraud charges.

The man tipped as  future head of VW America has quit.

And lastly the article confirms my thoughts that the bill will be so much higher than the monies VW have put aside.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34536573

[Jacques]

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2015/10/watch-volkswagens-michael-horn-testify-live-here-video/

Cheers,

Jacques.

[DanR]

Too bad VW can't claim the Second Amendment.

Why can't those idiots go after their guns problems with the same vigour?