Meanwhile, over at Tesla...

[C8RKH]

On 4/7/2016 at 09:23, alan said:

Upgrading the grid if a significant number of cars go electric will cost billions but the generation & supply companies make billions in profit.  The car owners will spend huge amounts with them making it more viable.  If the lack of filling stations put off the early users of petrol cars we would all still be riding horses.

 

Where do you get this from Alan? It made me laugh out loud. We have wholesale electricity at the lowest price for a decade and the distribution network prices are heavily regulated. You do know that the Generation Companies and the Distribution companies are separate companies don;t you, and you do know that there are different players for High Level voltage distribution, and low level etc?  This sort of "well they all make millions" comment is the sort of tish we get het up on the forum when people real out the old "Loads of trouble...." saying. They're both based on the same, ill informed and ill researched point of view and to be honest, it just makes me laugh. As for saying the EV buyers will cough up to pay for it, what are you high on?  You'd need millions of EV users to pay a large amount each, but as we have thousands of EV users they'll need to pay millions each.

Lol

[alan]

29 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

Where do you get this from Alan? It made me laugh out loud.

National grid last full year results - £3.9 billion profit before tax

[C8RKH]

With full year investment of £3.7bn.  You can't invest what you don't have, and you certainly cannot borrow at an affordable rate without a strong dividend and cash in the bank.

Your posting intentionally makes it sound as though they are swimming in cash when that is just not the case - the investment plans are multi-year and mostly dictated by government policy.

Also, don't forget that almost half the national grid business is also overseas anmd the investment is required in every market. It's an asset business, and as such, it makes an average return of around 5% on the assets deployed.  Most other businesses, and people, would not get out of bed for a 5% return.

 It's these types of sweeping economic assessments and judgements (usually clue less politicians and ill informed press) that have, along with fookwit bankers, got us into the mess we are in - broken economy and a national infrastrcuture (road, rail, energy, water) that is positively creaking and falling to pieces.

[Chillidoggy]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36680043

 

 

[Vanya]

I'm really on the fence about these things - I can see that a few here have Tesla's which goes to prove it's not just about being an Eco-warrior Whole-foods douchebag, and that it's possible to maintain a passion for motoring despite driving electric. I can buy into the fact the torque is addictive, and the storage in a Model S is fantastic, even if the car (to me) feels plasticky and cheap.

What I really don't like however is automation. For two reasons:

1. It makes humans useless and less disciplined. Soon drivers will be about as competent as pilots - clueless in emergency situations because the "instinct" is gone (no offence to any pilots around here).

I frequently run into more and more people convinced manual gearboxes are too complicated and that not everyone can handle them - thinking it's ok to settle for automatic. Great. Let's remove the steering and braking assistance next. Because perhaps that's also too much for the latest generation of mollycoddled youth. Evidently checking the blind spot is also too much to ask as well, so there's a sensor for that too!

2. While autopilot is good for long distances I have a feeling it's just going to result in further encroachment of worklife into our private lives. Here's more tech so you can work even longer every day - now you really CAN work on the way to the office. Instead of using technology for the betterment of mankind and social development, it's geared towards harnessing the power of Thatcher/Reaganism until every last drop of productivity can be squeezed out of our fellow man, necessary for infinite growth. The buck stops here for me. Smartphones have already resulted in a huge hit to mental health throughout the developed world with people not only working overtime at the office, but proceeding to continue sending mails and working from home, from the bedroom even.....

[USAndretti42]

I think this is why Alan likes Teslas

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AssSdA77GMU

When I had a test ride in a Tesla it made the back of my head sore.  From banging against the headrest whenever the driver put his foot down.

The 414E wasn't a practical production car.  I saw a cutaway version at a low- carbon conference a couple of years ago And it was full of engine, batteries, cooling systems for both and electric motor.  No rrom for luggage or back seats and probably megea expensive to build.

[Iconic Ride]

Great video, Trevor. Thanks.

I did read the entire thread. Many interesting observations, and certainly more than a few aspects of the whole EV undertaking were pointed out that I (and many others I suspect) had not thought deeply enough about. Considerably more complex issues than I would have reflected on or been familiar with.

It's apparent, however, that the EV concept is here to stay. The number of marques coming on board with their own versions has increased remarkably. The limitations of the current power grid notwithstanding, there is a future for these vehicles. Meshing that future with the available power supply and the economic viability of the system as a whole is an enterprise well above my pay grade. 

But hey, an SUV that can go 0 to 60 in 3 seconds (the follow on video if you stay with the link) can't be all bad.

[TBD]

Anything a Hellcat can beat can't be good (2nd half of the video is better). The Tesla may accelerate fast, but it can't retain that speed over any reasonable distance.

 

[NW76]

TBD, is right where the money is ... I had a Tesla in front of me when driving on the Autobahn recently with my tank (BMW X6 M) ... the Tesla was able to do one fast 100-240 kmh acceleration but after that he must have run out of power ... it produces nice figures on paper for the tec spec of the car but this is not a sports car at all ... the durability of power is non existant ...

[Iconic Ride]

Geeze, I missed a great opportunity this morning to perform my own "real world" test. Drew along side a spanking new Tesla Model X [the SUV], first one I've seen in the wild. 

Weighing my options, I ultimately decided that attaining 60mph (or greater) in a 35mph zoned roadway was likely to bring about a significant reduction in my net worth if the "test" were to be observed by Austin's Finest. I've already had the privilege of meeting the Chief of Police, in a social gathering environment. Not wanting to ruin an amicable relationship (he's a really good guy), I concluded that a face to face with one of his employees was an event best avoided, so I and the Tesla motored sedately away from the light, mutually admiring the other's ride. 

[Iconic Ride]

My master just engaged "Tesla Autopilot." Guess where he's sitting?

[C8RKH]

So latest Tesla results out. More losses. Output targets not met. Sales targets not met.

Great cars and tech but can't help but feel the company is way way over hyped.

Charismatic, visionary leader. Big ideas. Big vision. Huge investment required to deliver.

Just makes me think of the dot.com bubble - over hyped, decades away big vision etc.

Want to borrow a few grand, don't bother asking the bank manager. Want to borrow a million he'll buy you lunch. Want to borrow billions, give investors a big vision decades out....

[TBD]

Very much the same feelings. We have seen this scheme fail many times before and in no case have we seen it succeed against an established industry on the same basic product. 

Then again, I dream of what Lotus could have become if it had been given a similarly visionary and charismatic leader - instead of Dany Bahaha.

[Iconic Ride]

It's not all totally "doom and gloom." Tesla sold 25% more cars in the second quarter compared with a year ago...far and away a greater percentage increase than Ford or GM.

Revenue also increased by 33%, and cash reserves rose to $3.25 billion.* That said, they still had a $293 million quarterly loss (60% greater than the previous year), mostly due to the costs of ramping up the Nevada battery factory and development costs for the Model 3. It almost sounds like a replay of Boeing Aircraft Company's "bet the company" wager on the original 747, except that Tesla's wager is on the 737 equivalent.

*sufficient to purchase a low mileage Peugeot 205 GTI, and then some

[C8RKH]

2 hours ago, Iconic Ride said:

It's not all totally "doom and gloom." Tesla sold 25% more cars in the second quarter compared with a year ago...far and away a greater percentage increase than Ford or GM.

If I designed and built a new car and sold 1 in year 1 and 2 in year 2 that would be a 100% growth rate that would totally dwarf Teslas achievements.

I guess I'm saying your growth comparison between a niche startup and established volume player is flawed.

[TBD]

Adding to that, as long as you're losing money on every car you build growth is not the solution. Also, every carmaker has development costs for new models, even Lotus has to skim the development budget of the running revenues. 

[Iconic Ride]

Well! When Elon begins selling Tesla 4's on Mars next year (where petrol is in short supply), you'll see a dramatic turn around. So there.

 

[C8RKH]

Yeah, the problem is the cars will be on Mars but you'll be on Jupiter thanks to the autopilot!

Let's hope the auto life support functions better - 

"Though I'm past 
one hundred thousand miles
I'm feeling very still
And I think my spaceship knows which way to go
Tell my wife I love her very much 
she knows

Ground Control to Major Tom
Your circuit's dead,
there's something wrong
Can you hear me, Major Tom?
Can you hear me, Major Tom?
Can you hear me, Major Tom?
Can you...."

(c) Bowie - those words from so many years ago may just be so prophetic!

Hahahaha - lol.

[Iconic Ride]

I have it on good authority that Elvis himself is planning to emigrate from his current location on the Moon to Mars, just to test drive the Model 4. Elon is keeping this under wraps for now.

On 8/5/2016 at 01:49, C8RKH said:

If I designed and built a new car and sold 1 in year 1 and 2 in year 2 that would be a 100% growth rate that would totally dwarf Teslas achievements.

I guess I'm saying your growth comparison between a niche startup and established volume player is flawed.

You simply don't understand "the big picture" over at Tesla. Their "creative financing" department has come up with a scheme to begin "Tesla Prime," membership in which will be a requirement to purchase the Model 4. This requirement includes a destination delivery fee for the Earth/Mars transit of $999,000 on the E.M. Mars Express rocket, now in development. As the rocket will be (naturally) electric-propulsion powered, thereby saving huge amounts of cash vs. liquid fuel, the markup is sufficient to cover all Model 4 development costs, on a unit volume basis.

And did I mention the nonrefundable Tesla Prime membership cost of $495,000? 

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

I have just spent a couple of days in Stavanger, Norway. I must have seen at least 50 Tesla S in less than 48 hours, both private cars and taxis.

Apparently they're subsidised so much, that they're effectively half price compared to the sticker price we pay. That's in a country where everything else is 3x the UK price. I am sure this would not be possible if Norway was in the EU, due to competition laws. Sort of hypocritical for a national economy based on the extraction of fossil fuels!

Norway must be one of Tesla's biggest export countries, despite it's tiny population of only 5 million.

[C8RKH]

The taxi fleet at Schipol Airport has been Tesla's for the past 3 or 4 years. they're all over Amsterdam.....

[Iconic Ride]

On 9/5/2016 at 04:58, C8RKH said:

they're all over Amsterdam.....

Apparently one less now, as an S Model had a dispute with a tree 40 klics east of Amsterdam on Wednesday, erupting in flames and killing the driver. No mention yet about the "autopilot" factor.

[Advantage]

Nine amazing Tesla Easter Eggs.