Future of Lotus

[Likuid]

Just because there are no cars currently to enhance doesn't mean the effect won't translate to future cars. However, Lotus needs to get some new cars out in the next 3 years. Not just Evoras with a little more HP and carbon fiber. They need some new stuff.

[NedaSay]

Well we are supposed to get the new sport car out next year, the last car on one of current architecture, this thing was supposed to be unveiled this year in JMG's plan but the new management pushed it back a full year so it should be niggle free right of  the bat. If it is going to be VVA it should still feature some of the design language seen on Evija.  A Geely group propulsion system and a lot more tech in the cabin... Popham said it would  be unveiled late in the year but one never really knows with LOTUS .

[The Pits]

A lot of call online for something new, literally anything as long as it’s new. It’s presumably based on the view that newer automatically equals better which is not a view I share.

It seems to ignore the trends across the wider industry, far fewer resources have been directed towards drivers cars, let alone fantastic handling sports cars with interesting, characterful petrol powertrains.

Lotus are now dedicated on reaching out beyond the hardcore enthusiast market. That means more accessible, less hardcore (less exciting) cars, targets are greater ease of entry/egress and interior tech not finely judged spring rates, throttle response, obsessively honed steering systems and other things the wider market don’t care about.

If this is all people want when they ask for something new, this is all they’ll get.

[Ccd]

Pitts:

The market has spoken.  Raw cars such as the current lineup do not sell in sufficient numbers for Lotus to survive.  If you want the last great analogue cars Lotus is likely to produce, pick among the current line of cars.  The car scheduled for next year is likely to straddle the line between today’s cars and where Lotus intends to go next which appears to be electric and much more luxurious.

[NedaSay]

^^^@The Pits already has it I believe. The GT430 is set to be a pinnacle of what Lotus could do with no budget at all.

[Ccd]

In the US, it will probably be the Evora GT, basically a federalized GT 410 Sport

[The Pits]

The market is also saying forget sports cars altogether. The industry is rapidly moving away from drivers cars. Lotus, for me, were ideally placed to buck this trend and educate the market with smart communications and prove the value of lightweight engineering on the track, preferably via endurance racing which would help address the undeserved reputation for reliability.

The GT430 is the pinnacle for me, the most consistently enjoyable and impressive Lotus I’ve driven by some way although anyone could easily argue a case for the an Exige Cup 430 as the more exciting driving experience or 311-430 for being the most intense expression of the Lotus ethos. Purest current Lotus remains the Elise, probably the 220 Sprint. All cars I believe many here will regret not buying when they had the chance.

Let’s just say the targets are all hit and the main actual strides forward with the next car is ease of ingress/egress, daily useability and interior tech. Amazing styling is almost a given in Russell Carr’s current form. Regardless, would such a thing really be a better Lotus compared to what is currently on sale?

I’m not hearing about any targets to re-write the rules on driving dynamics, suspension design or driver engagement, no plans to re-focus the industry away from ever increasing power and weight, no plans to radically improve build quality (massive missed opportunity, needs to be at the forefront of all future plans, there should be quarterly announcements). No plans to lead, only follow whatever is currently popular. They talk about Lotus DNA but it’s just an empty sound bite, they don’t have the vision to see the opportunity that fundamental Lotus principles still offer. The success of the Alpine is staring them in the face.

 

[C8RKH]

22 minutes ago, The Pits said:

The market is also saying forget sports cars altogether.

And yet, look at the new Vette.

[The Pits]

I can’t for long, it’s utterly hideous!

Alpine has heavily outsold the Cayman across Europe, 2533 units vs 1601 Caymans (down 40%). Time for Lotus to wake up!

[au-yt]

11 hours ago, The Pits said:

Alpine has heavily outsold the Cayman across Europe, 2533 units vs 1601 Caymans (down 40%). Time for Lotus to wake up!

I think a bit of patience is needed, the A110 was started from what I can find in 2014 and have the backing of Renault with their umpteen years of press panel expertise. The shear fact they apparently created the A110 in three years is amazing it it was that short. Most manufactures work on 5 years.

[NedaSay]

1 hour ago, au-yt said:

I think a bit of patience is needed, the A110 was started from what I can find in 2014 and have the backing of Renault with their umpteen years of press panel expertise. The shear fact they apparently created the A110 in three years is amazing it it was that short. Most manufactures work on 5 years.

The alpine A110 was in gestation as early as 2013 if not before that, the car is the result of the work that they started with Caterham before the JV went tits up.

I could tell you that the first of next gen sport car is ready then... It started development almost 4 years ago now... Evora was developed in record time, Elise is still the yardstick for shortest leadtime I believe.  the new sport car was delayed mostly because it was going to be a "Toyota" car and now it's poised to be a "Geely" car. I believe it is about ready for its unveil, but they still needed to move a few Evora GT before showing it. I do think it will be yet another step forward in driver involvement and enjoyment,  I trust Carr design team and Kershaw dynamics team to get this right... Build quality better be right from the get go. It will be the second fully global car after Evora and it better be ready to retail globally from the off. Now management need to get its act together  when it comes to retail and marketing cause right now i'm still in disbelief as to  how very little they are doing. 

[au-yt]

Fair comment. However I still believe they need to get this car right and that includes marketing. I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s marketed in China first, it’s there biggest market.

[NedaSay]

Uh no it isn't. It is a very big prospective market, that is true but sales in Japan, mainland Europe (atomized market) and the USA do still dwarf it for the time being. They only officially have the 5 dealers in China although i think the number is closer to 10 now and they are expanding quickly,  however from what I understand all these dealers are 4S centres and their layout is somewhat reminiscent of the Lotus dealership experience put forward in the DB era.

China is definitely going to be one of Lotus biggest markets if not the biggest once the e-SUV and e-sedan are here, but as long as we think in terms of sport cars the US, Europe and Japan will still be ahead, because purchasing one car is hard enough in China and Lotis are most often the second car. I'm still very curious to see how many cars they will shift in China but kinda of surprised that they do not sell the Elise and Exige there...

Also one of the few development  to the Chinese market is that Lotus will now use the Lotus moniker and roundel without the need to add NYO. It seems this situation has been resolved and  they did not need to make an announcement about it. I guess somebody's hand was nicely strong armed or somebody got a very nice payday from the powers that be.

Edited November 3, 2019 by NedaSay

[Frickin_idiot]

Purely from a UK perspective I am hoping that Lotus are working on the dealer network, the number of outlets and quality of showroom doesn't compare to other premium brands.

[jonwat]

Some more Autocar articles (usual bullsh1t) 

Lotus Elan in frame as Boxster rival in revival plan

Opinion: A reborn Elan could drive in a new era for Lotus

Lotus Engineering "back in business" and planning expansion

[harrry]

A couple of interesting titbits in there. I just hope that the all new platform remains relatively compact, particularly in terms of its width. So many people with the means to buy sports cars live in cities.. and it's just a faff to have something mega wide. I'm convinced that's a major reason the new astons are struggling. And also why the "everyday sports car" did so well for porsche. There's surely an opportunity in there with the new 911s getting becoming so .... er ... porky.

 

[The Pits]

Evija is unusually compact for its catagory, so I believe Russell Carr at least is on the same page. He'll be looking to preserve that key Lotus attribute going forward I'm sure.

[Bibs]

https://paultan.org/2019/11/04/lotus-engineering-back-in-action-to-work-with-geely/

Quote

There’s fresh movement happening right now in Lotus. According to a report by Autocar, Lotus Engineering, which is the engineering consulting firm for third-party clients, will be expanded under the leadership of Miguel Fragoso, alongside a newly-appointed commercial director. Fragoso has kept a team working on key R&D areas such as advanced structures, dynamics, propulsion systems and electronic controls.

Previously under the stewardship of former CEO Jean-Marc Gales, Lotus Engineering’s contribution to the group’s turnover dropped to 15%, as opposed to nearly 50% before. However, Fragoso credited Gales for instilling the “financial discipline” that the consultancy didn’t have. “That made it more attractive for an investor,” he said.

Recently, the company have begun exploratory projects in collaboration with Jaguar Land Rover specifically for the UK government’s Technology Strategy Board, as well as two more projects with unnamed Japanese companies.

“We’ve been able to keep some extraordinary talent,” said Fragoso. He also explained that by offering services in these areas, “we are more than subject specialists, we are a car company ourselves,” providing additional insight.

For these reasons, Fragoso said “we’re back in business.” The business focuses on two areas, one being the familiar mainstream automakers, and the other is start-up firms. Fragoso added that “we will be working with Geely” and aspires to be among the leading companies providing these services.

Lotus Engineering will have a hand in the developmental process of the electric Evija hypercar, as well as a new range of sports cars by Lotus. This will expose the company and its “talented pool of employees” to the latest technologies, which will further enable it to take on projects that align with its sports car plans.

 

[MPx]

5 hours ago, harrry said:

 I just hope that the all new platform remains relatively compact, particularly in terms of its width. ...

 

While I get that, one of the things that got me out of Elise was that basically I don't fit.  Its not all that much better in the Evora.  I'm a bit lardy but not THAT big and only 6 foot.  Elise platform with anyone my size or bigger in the passenger seat and we're rubbing shoulders hard and leaning on the door at the same time.  In the Evora its just the occasional brush if pushing on.  Its nice having my own space in the Esprit and M100 and I don't consider them "big" in the way the RangeRover is.  Its much the same with Plane/Train and many Theartre seats - too narrow and not somewhere I'd ever chose to put myself.  With obesity issues becoming more - er - widespread, it may not be a great idea to discount half the market.

[C8RKH]

I'm a lardy bastard and fit in the Evora carbon buckets better than the thinner @Colin P (he just must have a wider arse!) And have no issues getting in to our out of my Evora 410 Sport.

My type116 (the vauxhall Elise lol) is dead easy too. I just unclip the roof. Fold it over in half. Step onto the seat and slide right in just like an F1 driver. Pull the roof over, clip it on and vroom vroom.

Is it stylish looking? Nope. But it actually adds to the experience and just helps to remind me that that car is just so different and focused (it's also highly modified with a 260bhp sc, variable steering rack, spitfire rods, nitrons, harness and lcd dash etc, so obviously not a DD.

I sort of get your point re the market, but I really do think the world would be a poorer place without cars of the like Lotus is a master at making...

[NedaSay]

Worry not guys, sizing, easier egress and ingress is one of the core characteristics JMG made clear in is business plan and Popham and Co are sticking to it. The new Evija is a clear indicator of what we can expect to get with the next gen cars. Lotus will still be compact but the cabin will be absolutely liveable,  Henry Catchpole from Carfection is one of the tallest car journalist out there, lanky but very tall and he had room to move about in the car. Matt Farrah from Smoking Tire is what can only be described as big and tall and yet he fits in the Evora GT with a helmet on without the need to take his shoes off and without have the seat nibling at the waist. Evora 's VVA is going to be the conceptual base for the next gen of cars, it will be heavily reengineered and  but deep down it will be an evolution of that so I think if you fit in 95%, you should be fine.

[NedaSay]

the future shape of the skeleton production hall.

They just obtained official permission the 25th of september so if they want to start the production of Evija in late 2020 they seriously have to get crackin, the superstructure is already built but they still have to do the glazing and all the interior fittings.

https://info.south-norfolk.gov.uk/online-applications/files/3DBBA0D2BFE687393EB05BFEDE3F69F4/pdf/2019_1830-PROPOSED_ELEVATIONS_SHEET_1-6469744.pdf

DB would be proud it doesn't look like they changed much to the original layout 

[NedaSay]

https://info.south-norfolk.gov.uk/online-applications/files/C5F8F02490F3D4C1605E229B2674FC84/pdf/2018_2147-PROPOSED_SITE_CAR_PARKING-6190094.pdf

Thank you @Chipp for sharing these with me, i've been nerding part of the day.

It is quite fun to see that despite a change in ownership and 2 changes in management some of Dany Bahar initiatives will come to fruition has it appears the skeleton has only be modified cosmetically.

Edited November 5, 2019 by NedaSay

[Nathan Pitman]

I don't know much about car design, safety regulations or the such but I've been pondering whether Lotus could realistically deliver anything 'completely new' which gets anywhere close to the analog enjoyment you can extract from the current range without significant compromise? I'm sure that the new car due as a stop gap in 2020 (that's what I heard anyway) will look fantastic.., but how can it possibly measure up to current model range in all other areas?

In some ways the lack of investment in Lotus over the years has been a blessing and a curse... Lotus has refined the current crop of models to perfection and have built a kind of timeless aesthetic amongst the Elise and Exige ranges in doing so. To better these machines on driver engagement, performance, cost of purchase and curb appeal is a tall order indeed. What's next is likely going to weigh more, sound less interesting, feel less involving and cost more... at which point, we're not the target audience anymore are we?

I'd be delighted to be proven wrong, perhaps Lotus will do a Porsche and offer stripped back more analog versions of their comfortable 'everyone' sports cars, but if the prices are as eye watering as those offerings then I guess we'll just have to 'make do' (hardly) with the incredible cars we are currently all blessed with.

[NedaSay]

I do think that in terms of "spartan refinement" both the interior design teams and exterior design teams are going to surprise you...  VVA+ is going to be a big step forward for the company. They always had the vision but now they have the legs to carry it out. The chassis will remain bonded and riveted aluminium but will add cast alloy pieces  as Lotus did for for the venerable Aston Martin VH platform back in the day. In terms of material, the technological progress is such that complexe surfaces are now much easier to manufacture inside and out. And Lotus has access to it all thanks to Geely group cross - pollination.  I'm certain the car are going to get a bit more "mainstream", I rest assured that they will remain the yardstick in terms of driver enjoyment, they have pushed back the release of the next sport car for a reason that may have to see with Geely components integration but also that did give them time to hone the chassis to near perfection. 

I don't know if extra investment is going to do what you think it is going to do: more weight,  because more goodies... Not if they can shave the weight out elsewhere and with more aluminium and some well placed carbon elements throughout the car, a bespoke loom, and the return to 4 cylinders. it may actually be quite light, a shortened Evora with 4 cyl would assuredly be below 1200kg.  Sure electric seats, ADASS are set to invade the cabin of the cars, but I'm pretty sure these will include settings to completely disconnect them... Also if Eviya has non-fixed seats, these seats are also only manually adjustable so still somewhat spartan... I want to take this of a sign of things to come, people will be able to option their car as luxury tourer if it suits their fancy but they will still have the bones of bona fide racers.

I'm going to remain highly optimistic on the next 4 products, because I remember the guy who was in charge at the time of their inception and the guys and gals he entrusted with execution are still there and they have been empowered it seems by the new management, even-though I'm still on the fence with some appointements.  I think the picture is going to get much clearer in a few weeks. Lotus is set to stun!