Future of Lotus

[Bee]

Fair point, Mel! I'd just lost track of what was still in the pipeline, beyond the SUV and a likely halo hypercar, and wondered if anything more was still confirmed or likely. I was definitely not expecting anyone to risk their careers with unscheduled model announcements!

[au-yt]

If I heard correctly at a presentation by Mark Fullalove at the Lotus Cars Australia Day at Bathurst Mount Panorama,  the SUV is on hold, Elise first. His main comment was the Hethel Heratige Center and new staff canteen were due for completion in Suptember. Interesting he said the canteen was important for staff moral, wow fist I’ve hear for sometime about company looking after the staff from any company.

[Spinney]

Makes sense to look after the staff. Japanese firms have been doing it for a long time, engendering a loyalty among staff, so not surprised the Chinese are following their lead in this. For far too long, Lotus employees haven't had the security they perhaps should, so it's definitely a step in the right direction of putting the company on a solid base. 

Lets just hope we see some results over the next couple of years in terms of products, full of Lotus DNA that people actually want to buy. I'm feeling very positive about their long term future for the first time................probably ever, if I'm honest.

[mdavies]

8 hours ago, Bee said:

Fair point, Mel! I'd just lost track of what was still in the pipeline, beyond the SUV and a likely halo hypercar, and wondered if anything more was still confirmed or likely. I was definitely not expecting anyone to risk their careers with unscheduled model announcements!

An ever-fascinating topic of course.  What I had in mind was not so much the situation for "real insiders" - black/white for them - but those on the outermost fringes on "insiderdom" who, actually knowing nothing, have a better focus for speculation than others. If anyone in such a position voiced their thoughts publicly, and the speculation was later proved near the mark, it could have serious consequences for those "in the chain" to an actual insider.  Me, I don't rule out surprises. (A meaningless statement - please note that!)

Edited February 10, 2019 by mdavies
Punctuation

[Bibs]

6 hours ago, au-yt said:

wow fist I’ve hear for sometime about company looking after the staff from any company.

Lotus staff got free hot drinks vending machines back in August, was a very welcome move and much appreciated from the people who work there. Sometimes the little things can make a big difference 👍

[Sport220]

Will there ever be an Exige S3 road version with DCT/sequential box option?

I reckon a Cup 4xx with one could sell well. It's a track weapon, where the manual seems to let it down (talking about journos, and probably your wealthy trackday nuts) and generate more criticism than not, seeing as the car is so damn fast

Anyway, what I really want them to keep/start building is a new Elan or Elise. Manual as standard, of course 😎

[au-yt]

I agree, sad part is I wont be able to afford one, I would also like to see than use more English expertise, ie a Quaife box. for the cup version perhaps as there are conversions already from what I have read

As this is a new era, I believe new names, sentimental I guess I plan to keep my EVORA 400 as its the end of an Era.

Interesting I saw the word Evangelise on a screen and interesting Lotus have the Elise what about Evang. evangelise verb (OPINIONS) [ I ] to talk about how good you think something is.. or the EMOTION, a car I wish the "Beep Beep" that they had made, as still looks good today.... big ask I for Both I suppose.

 

[NedaSay]

I believe new names are not going to be a thing in the future because of I.P... New names do cost a fortune to develop and maintain worldwide. Lotus is possibly set to to reuse name that is already their intellectual propeRty portfolio so: Elan, Elite, Excel, Esprit, Eleven, Elise, Exige, Evora. Even maybe but highly doubtful Eterne and Ethos that are also in the book because DB. Many companies are phasing out names in favour of codes as they are easier to obtain and protect a letter- number combination à la Mercedes/Benz and now, Audi, Volvo, Mazda Infinity... or just a number BMW is way easier as you don't have togo thru the landmines of legal documents as to who owns what name... And does it work in this or that language ; think Audi E-tron in french very clumsy to call your brand new electric car is piece of shit isn't it.

Also think of Tesla, they were supposed to go with Models S, X, E and Y with Elon Musk clear intent to make cars "sexy" again, only to find that Model E was still part of the Ford portfolio,  and Ford is keeping it registered even though there's no plan to get a Ford model E or T or L  in the future whatsoever,  forcing them to go to Model 3 still close enough so that S3XY does still read SEXY in  our brains. 

As to Emotion I do think MB has patented that one not for one of their car, but they own the emotion brand as i think they are planning to brand their electric AWD vehicles e-Motion.

 

[Sport220]

18 hours ago, au-yt said:

I agree, sad part is I wont be able to afford one, I would also like to see than use more English expertise, ie a Quaife box. for the cup version perhaps as there are conversions already from what I have read

As this is a new era, I believe new names, sentimental I guess I plan to keep my EVORA 400 as its the end of an Era.

Interesting I saw the word Evangelise on a screen and interesting Lotus have the Elise what about Evang. evangelise verb (OPINIONS) [ I ] to talk about how good you think something is.. or the EMOTION, a car I wish the "Beep Beep" that they had made, as still looks good today.... big ask I for Both I suppose.

 

Yes, I forgot an LSD too, other major criticism. Quaife would be great

[Spinney]

20 hours ago, au-yt said:

I agree, sad part is I wont be able to afford one, I would also like to see than use more English expertise, ie a Quaife box. for the cup version perhaps as there are conversions already from what I have read.

 

I didn’t know Quaife can supply a conversion. Is it a complete replacement or simply alternative gear sets within the standard casing? Do they use straight or helical cut gears, presumably still with full synchro?

Lotus have used Xtrac sequential boxes in the Exige and 3-11 but they weren’t really suited to road use. Having said that, Xtrac have produced high performance road gearboxes before so could still do the same for Lotus I should imagine.

[au-yt]

Sorry my reference meant to infer a Quafe designed and built box, the ones I have seen racing are komo-tec

https://komo-tec.com/Shop/en/Exige/MK3-Toyota-V6-350-380/Gearbox/Sequential-7-Speed-Gearbox.html

As for names history is littered with revamped names that become watered down commercial versions of the original great cars. 

[TBD]

On 28/01/2019 at 11:49, TLF News said:

Lotus join with Williams Advanced Engineering for strategic partnership

Did TopGear by coincidence release the "secret" subject of the agreement? https://www.topgear.com/car-news/electric/eight-electric-hypercars-were-looking-forward?fbclid=IwAR0ryFjTCnq8qt-EO2_1LCcGU592K7kTWmDKfFdf3xMLyDPv2j9xjZ8NvJM#7

[Bee]

This would seem to add up very nicely.  WIlliams state that they could make a production run of 100 or so of these rolling carbon fibre chassis, with an electric 652bhp torque-vectored AWD system, weighing only 955kg each. Add in an equivalent to the Toyota supercharged 3.5l V6 (175kg?) to top it up to 1000bhp, and have it sound the way you'd want it to, and you would surely have something quite phenomenal for the Lotus ride and handling wizards to get their teeth stuck into! Could be very interesting...

 

www.topgear.com/car-news/electric/fancy-building-652bhp-4wd-electric-supercar-call-williams

[electro_boy]

Looks like a well engineered and competitive chassis to build from.

While I like Williams and I hope it’s a very successful partnership I wish it was fully engineered from ground up by Lotus.

I think they have the experience in house from Tesla days and the Eveora hybrid prototype so would’ve been nice to have a full Lotus design.

But I’m a fan of Williams Engineering and this will speed up development if the hypercar and get it to market quicker. 

[NedaSay]

Lotus entrusting chassis build to Williams is idiotic at best to me... Lotus is a chassis company, entrusting the battery to williams ok, the gearbox to Xtrac, Ricardo or Syncromatic ok, but the chassis should be designed and built at Hethel and nowhere else... Especially a hypercar chassis.

[Sport220]

What's so idiotic about buying an already developed and ready to build, carbon fibre, lightweight, EV platform, from an Engineering team that's been powering Formula E and clearly has a lot more CFRP experience than Lotus?

I see it as a great partnership and an opportunity to build an halo car without overspending. And we all know what the Chinese want.  

[C8RKH]

32 minutes ago, Sport220 said:

And we all know what the Chinese want.  

Oodles of noodles?  Number 46 and a side of 83?

[Bee]

2 hours ago, NedaSay said:

Lotus entrusting chassis build to Williams is idiotic at best to me... Lotus is a chassis company, entrusting the battery to williams ok, the gearbox to Xtrac, Ricardo or Syncromatic ok, but the chassis should be designed and built at Hethel and nowhere else... Especially a hypercar chassis.

'If' Lotus are taking this route, I'd be most surprised to see them leave the chassis as it is, regardless of Williams' engineering expertise, however, I would imagine Williams would also be quite happy with that. They would surely expect any partnership utilising their platform to develop and evolve what they have offered, and Lotus have a pretty stellar reputation for chassis design. I, for one, would also be interested to see what else WIlliams can offer: their F1 experience with air effect, for instance, must surely be worth considering...

[NedaSay]

On 15/02/2019 at 11:11, Sport220 said:

What's so idiotic about buying an already developed and ready to build, carbon fibre, lightweight, EV platform, from an Engineering team that's been powering Formula E and clearly has a lot more CFRP experience than Lotus?

I see it as a great partnership and an opportunity to build an halo car without overspending. And we all know what the Chinese want.  

I see it as it is... With their new upcoming positioning, Lotus should avoid people getting the perception that major components for which they are known for as one of the ultimate masters (aka chassis build and tune) to be sourced from elsewhere... The Chassis design should in my mind be handled beginning  to end in Hethel. Don't get me wrong having consultant and suppliers is part of the game and totally ok but what if Ferrari was saying that they next hypercar was going to be built on a Dallara chassis... Nope sorry don't think so.

The williams skate (see image below) has been around for the past few years and is already being used by the Dendobrium supercar I think.

 At the end of the day it is nothing but a carbon sandwich chassis, not something the engineers at Lotus cannot develop quickly and effectively in house. The powertrain system that I do get Williams has been working on it for the past 4 years  so battery integration in the chassis they sure can land their expertise.  And when it comes to battery production and considering Williams AE and Unipart are building a factory to do just that in the UK it would make sense to use them as a supplier for that... But in my opinion this is where it should stop. Besides that Supercar Lotus and Geely are developing has been initiated underJMG. He hinted at it almost 2,5 years ago and the thing has been in development since before the purchase as a result it should/could be pretty advanced already so if Geely and Popham decided 4 months ago to send the design to be done at Williams what message are you sending to your own engineers?  

 

[au-yt]

My thoughts are that it’s electric tech that Lotus are looking at only. The integration of batteries in the chassis has too many long term issues for maintenance of the cells. Unless the cars weighs 1/2 of what the current crop of  electric vehicles the flat chassis even in carbon ain’t gong to be stiff enough.

. 

[DarrylV8]

10 hours ago, NedaSay said:

I see it as it is... With their new upcoming positioning, Lotus should avoid people getting the perception that major components for which they are known for as one of the ultimate masters (aka chassis build and tune) to be sourced from elsewhere... The Chassis design should in my mind be handled beginning  to end in Hethel. Don't get me wrong having consultant and suppliers is part of the game and totally ok but what if Ferrari was saying that they next hypercar was going to be built on a Dallara chassis... Nope sorry don't think so.

The williams skate (see image below) has been around for the past few years and is already being used by the Dendobrium supercar I think.

 At the end of the day it is nothing but a carbon sandwich chassis, not something the engineers at Lotus cannot develop quickly and effectively in house. The powertrain system that I do get Williams has been working on it for the past 4 years  so battery integration in the chassis they sure can land their expertise.  And when it comes to battery production and considering Williams AE and Unipart are building a factory to do just that in the UK it would make sense to use them as a supplier for that... But in my opinion this is where it should stop. Besides that Supercar Lotus and Geely are developing has been initiated underJMG. He hinted at it almost 2,5 years ago and the thing has been in development since before the purchase as a result it should/could be pretty advanced already so if Geely and Popham decided 4 months ago to send the design to be done at Williams what message are you sending to your own engineers?  

 

Yes Nico, not a good message to the very good engineers already on the Lotus payroll, chassis has always been a Lotus expertise; is this partnership for chassis collaboration I am hoping this is for lightweight electric motor and the interface with the driven wheel especially on 4WD systems?

unless the electric engineers who were involved with the Elise Tesla and Evora EV are no longer at Lotus and not able/wanting to return still unsure why Lotus haven’t pushed ahead without going outside the Geely group for assistance, and would assume this partnership was sanctioned at the top of the Geely empire and benefits the Geely group as a whole!

[C8RKH]

I'm not engineer, so thought I would qualify that point up front!

I'm struggling to see the issue here.  Lotus get the flat bed chassis from Williams with the batteries and electric engines all plumbed in as a package.

There is nothing stopping them from agreeing with Williams that things like suspension mounting points etc are either supplied to a unique Lotus spec, or, Lotus make their own (just like the lovely alloy ones from the Evora etc) to give them the freedom to "play" with the tuning of the chassis and suspension to get the Lotus feel and superior characteristics. That would give the Lotus engineers plenty of scope to "play and tune" to their hearts content and would not take anything away from their "expertise or skills" especially when the worlds motoring press consistently say that the Lotus interpretation of the williams chassis is the finest handling version in the world!  Wow, what great praise for the Lotus engineers, take a boggo standard platform from an established F1 and Formula E constructor and make it better.  :)

We're all armchair warriors with no real clause as to what is going to happen so instead of crying into our porridge that it's not fair for the Lotus engineers and writing the whole thing off why don't we just wait and see what they come up with and IF the Williams flat pack chassis is used without modification.

I think Lotus will, once again, surprise us and the industry and the press. I feel the momentum is building.

[Bee]

Agreed, and although I'd love to see Lotus do this sort of thing from the ground up, we have to remember that so much of this is new territory for them - £million+, electric/hybrid hypercars are not really on their CVs as yet! To develop the next generation/s of cars, they are going to need to develop a very significant number of technologies and this sort of partnership makes an awful lot of sense in order to develop the skills and expertise within their own staff. It is also, surely, the only conceivable way to do it within a reasonable timeframe.

 

A Lotus hypercar that is blisteringly quick, looks outrageous but still like a Lotus, has enough Lotus handling characteristics for  the press to note that it 'feels' like a Lotus, and is a bit of a track monster - well, that will surely be a fantastic halo car for the brand. It will be assumed - rightly, I'm sure - that the expertise will filter down to the next generation of Lotus road cars and develop a great deal of hype for the brand.

 

At the end of the day, they are only going to sell a very limited number of these things; how many members of this forum are likely to have a £million+ Lotus hypercar sat in their respective garages? Hopefully, they can cut their teeth on the hypercar and then use the experience to give develop - from the ground up, 100% their own chassis etc. - a new generation of Lotus sports cars.

[au-yt]

Ok I get the point, however batteries are a series of cells, serviceability when in a chassis which appears to be the picture is the main issue I see, and, if your lucky 7 years battery life AGM batteries are the only option.

Then the access to then for maintenance and chassis integrity with removable section, the only way to manage that is a removable complete unit. 

 You can only do 3 consecutive full power runs with a Tesla before it goes into limp mode. So cooling systems yes fluid cooling for the Batteries and electronics is also an issue. 

Give me the Williams X75 Jaguar system makes much more sense for a Hyper car, keep the battery cars as white goods for now.

[C8RKH]

11 hours ago, au-yt said:

You can only do 3 consecutive full power runs with a Tesla before it goes into limp mode. So cooling systems yes fluid cooling for the Batteries and electronics is also an issue.

Which is usually not mentioned by owners and journo's when they just talk about how fast it accelerates!  It's a long way off from being a usable high performance car for anything other than a few "bursts".