Future of Lotus

[KAS-118]

Article in Autocar - new car before new architecture 

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/all-new-lotus-model-due-next-year

[Frimley111R]

Makes sense although there's a lot of typical Autocar guesswork in that article. 

[NedaSay]

5 hours ago, KAS-118 said:

Article in Autocar - new car before new architecture 

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/all-new-lotus-model-due-next-year

 

https://www.ft.com/content/a889f410-467e-11e9-a965-23d669740bfb

 

Nothing really new in the article and as @Frimley111R said a lot of guess work. Next year car is an Evora "evo", and there will only be one instead of the two models mentioned at some point. Now I hope this car will come in coupe and roadster form... Something leads me to think that it will take them longer to get the next gen cars.

Some will be put at ease by the comments of Popham on the price point remaining pretty much unchanged ; Lotus will remain somewhat accessible but will very easily go hunting on supercar and hypercar territory from its current positioning. And good to know that they have "billions" (as in more than one) to work with...  

Maintaining the connection to Toyota is interesting as I would have thought that having access to the Geely "homegrown" 4 cyls and V6 would have allowed Lotus to get their own "bespoke" powertrain.

Changing the aluminium bonded structure to something else... for some reason I don't really see happening unless the cost of carbon fiber construction or other polymer gets below the price of sheet metal... Everybody is moving toward aluminium bonding at the price point and volume Lotus is aiming at... the SUV may high a mix of boron steel and aluminium but when it comes to the sport cars, this construction is pretty tough to beat on price/volume /investement ratio I believe.  

 

Edited March 15, 2019 by NedaSay

[electro_boy]

For me this is the important statement:

Quote

We will build cars in the future with the DNA of today. They’ll have the same performance and handling, but will appeal to a wider audience. Our barriers to entry now are the cars’ practicality, the ingress and egress, the day-to-day use like ergonomics and connectivity. They will improve, but absolutely retain the purity.

There has been much speculation about which direction Lotus will go with the new owners.  Good to hear the core values why Lotus people like Lotus cars is going to be kept.

 

Quote

Changing the aluminium bonded structure to something else...

I think I read somewhere that the Alu tub of the Elise weights an extra 4kg compared to a carbon tub. I think there are lower hanging fruit to aim for when optimising the car before they need to look at chassis materials.  Trying to find the source but can’t find it at the moment.  Maybe it was conversation with an engineer when I was at the LDA?

[NedaSay]

1 hour ago, electro_boy said:

For me this is the important statement:

There has been much speculation about which direction Lotus will go with the new owners.  Good to hear the core values why Lotus people like Lotus cars is going to be kept.

 

I think I read somewhere that the Alu tub of the Elise weights an extra 4kg compared to a carbon tub. I think there are lower hanging fruit to aim for when optimising the car before they need to look at chassis materials.  Trying to find the source but can’t find it at the moment.  Maybe it was conversation with an engineer when I was at the LDA?

it was a JMG comparing the Elise tub to the 4C tub the publication was Autocar I think.

I think that mixing bonded aluminium extrusion and aluminium casting will further reduce the weight of all future models across the board, at this point in time I think there maybe more to save in front or read subframes or the body panels than in the main chassis itself. With support from Geely Lotus is poised to get a lot of "parts bin" components that it previously got "off the shelves" made to measure. 

Edited March 15, 2019 by NedaSay

[Julian73]

36 minutes ago, NedaSay said:

it was a JMG comparing the Elise tub to the 4C tub the publication was Autocar I think.

I think that mixing bonded aluminium extrusion and aluminium casting will further reduce the weight of all future models across the board, at this point in time I think there maybe more to save in front or read subframes or the body panels than in the main chassis itself. With support from Geely Lotus is poised to get a lot of "parts bin" components that it previously got "off the shelves" made to measure. 

 

1 hour ago, electro_boy said:

For me this is the important statement:

There has been much speculation about which direction Lotus will go with the new owners.  Good to hear the core values why Lotus people like Lotus cars is going to be kept.

 

I think I read somewhere that the Alu tub of the Elise weights an extra 4kg compared to a carbon tub. I think there are lower hanging fruit to aim for when optimising the car before they need to look at chassis materials.  Trying to find the source but can’t find it at the moment.  Maybe it was conversation with an engineer when I was at the LDA?

I was a January 2018 Autocar interview with JMG

[scotty435]

Me for one can not wait for next years new model , obviously based on the Evora platform and why not a great starting point and what looks like finally to put the brand where it should be with its competitors regarding the latest tech at the same time still having its core values.

[Nathan Pitman]

I imagine this is pretty much going to be a reimagining of the Evora with better fit and finish and more competitive interior tech/refinement, perhaps a new name to evoke more media interest. That's all ok with me and I suspect it would also herald in a series of more stripped back raw variants further down the line. Will this be their first production car to run a hybrid power unit?

[electro_boy]

Yep I think in the mid term that’s all they need to do.  Just improve the inside a bit more to broaden the appeal of the car to more mass market and to get the higher sales figures coming in.   Shouldn’t distract the designers and engineers too much from the fully reworked models due a bit later on in the future.

Dont know if they’ve had enough time to get a drive unit ready for production?  Don’t know how long these things take.  It’ll be great if they have something but personally I don’t expect it and don’t think they need to for this interim model.  For the later models the game might have moved on when they eventually come out so possibly everyone will be making sporty hydrid cars?

[NedaSay]

They could have an evora hybrid out and about and we would have no idea.

I wonder if the car will wear the Evora moniker, in a way it would be better if it did not and was coming along to supplement the Evora...In my opinion it would allow to refocus the Evora as the 2+2 GT and get the new car to be more supercar like, keep both cars around, bring the entry level price of evora back down a bit all the while providing the car with all the refinement the brand new car will get. Make the new car a pure two seater and use one of the already registered moniker in the bank.  

They do have the money to roll out an entirely new model and a mark III evora now, I think they should. 

So I anticipate a V6 but will it be a Toyota or a Geely? And if it is a V6 will it come as transverse or longitudinal layout with an upgraded 6speed manual gearbox? a new 8 speed auto or a 7speed DCT ?

[harrry]

https://www.pistonheads.com/features/ph-features/why-lotus-wont-be-building-an-suv--yet/39817

 

Before the new architecture we're likely to see a switch from Toyota to Volvo-sourced powerplants - the brand's three-cylinder 1.5-litre engine could be a particularly happy fit with a lightweight Lotus - beyond that, electrification will play an increasing role, something the group resources make far easier. But Popham also confirmed that at least some of the next-generation cars will remain conventionally powered; lightweight remains the most important of the brand's core values. "Electrification is on the agenda," he says, "but it's not going to be the only powertrain for us."

[C8RKH]

I'm surprised that what stood out to me as the quote if the Autocar interview with Mr. Popham has not been yet mentioned I believe. And that was around financial accessabikity of the new cars to owners and how he did not wish to see the price point raised. If he can achieve this then I do think that would be tremendous for the future prospects of the company and many of us as current owners 

[Ccd]

I’m going to make a prediction: no Evora GT Sport will reach US shores; there will be no 2019 MY Lotus in America.  My guess is that Lotus has made the decision that the current Evora cannot sell in the number they need in the US.  And they could very well be right as I’ve read that Lotus sold only 36 cars here in 2018.  Instead, Lotus will begin its reboot in the US with this new car.  I expect the biggest change to be a greatly improved interior and maybe a bump in hp.  My other guess is that the age of “raw” stripped down cars is over for Lotus.  Raw doesn’t sell cars in the numbers that Lotus needs to survive and thrive.

 

[Likuid]

The Evora GT may make it. My guess is this was maybe a stop gap for the stop gap to appease the current US Dealers. Honestly an Evora or Evora-like with more HP (500?) and modern interior with Lotus version of Volvo ICE would be nice to see.

I agree I thing the era of a raw stripped down car may be over. However I am sure they we release limited edition stripped down versions of most of their sports car product line like most manufacturers do.

[au-yt]

Dont forget about this, its more than likely running around with a Volvo engine as we discuss this

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/a26060869/lotus-williams-collaboration/

[Bee]

It will be interesting to see what they deliver as the stop-gap car, before the all-new models arrive, as it will very much be taken as a statement of intent from the world's motoring press and interested potential buyers. It does sound most likely to be based on the Evora platform so I'm genuinely intrigued to see what they have up their sleeves; they really have to nail it because it will be expected to stand up (excel against?) against the competition in every sense, not just 'feel', ride and handling. I wonder whether we're going to see a mock-up, concept etc. at Shanghai...

 

It's fantastic news about keeping the cars at similar price points: an Elise (or similar) at £50-60,000 - going head-to-head with Boxsters, the new Z4/Supra etc. - that keeps its core attributes but adds a quality interior, reasonable access/egress and enough practicality to make it a genuine daily driver... That would surely sell like hot cakes!

 

I'm surprised about the lack of SUV though - definitely sounds like that won't be coming any time soon. It has to be the right decision, however, if they truly want the eventual product to be worthy of the badge...

[Ccd]

It’s great that Lotus is doing something with the Evora.  Their luck in timing this car is not so great.  Porsche has the 992 model 911 which the press is gushing over and there will certainly be more models of that car coming in 2020.  And the 800 pound gorilla in the room is the mid-engined Corvette.  Even with current pricing, Lotus will likely be going head to head with both of these cars and that is going to be a tough slog.

[100th_Idiot]

Am I the only one that does not want a crappy built in ICE from Volvo or anyone else? After a few years they are woefully outdated and unable to be upgraded. I'm happy with an aftermarket unit. It plays music and radio. Sat Nav. And is easily changed if you want newer features such as Android Auto or Apple Car play today. The ICE is just a bit more planned obsolescence to apply pressure to change your car.

[Bee]

3 hours ago, 100th_Idiot said:

Am I the only one that does not want a crappy built in ICE from Volvo or anyone else? After a few years they are woefully outdated and unable to be upgraded. I'm happy with an aftermarket unit. It plays music and radio. Sat Nav. And is easily changed if you want newer features such as Android Auto or Apple Car play today. The ICE is just a bit more planned obsolescence to apply pressure to change your car.

I completely get what you're saying; however, if the stop-gap car's/new cars' ICE offerings don't at least match up to the opposition's, then it will be the big 'BUT...' on every other review, group test etc. and we'll see phrases like 'old Lotus bugbear' and 'not there yet...'

 

Realistically, assuming a £110,000-£130,000 price it will be largely compared with the new 992 model 911, AMG GT and Audi R8 so as well as hitting 60mph/100kph in around 3.5 seconds and matching handling etc. it will need interior quality and technological toys/ICE of equivalent quality to those cars if it wants to make a statement and have the reviews, group tests etc. recognise that Lotus is 'now' a car that you can buy without having to put up with any compromise. 

 

I'm quite sure that Lotus will want this car to be 'spot on' because it will be setting the stage for the all-new cars. The last thing they will want is for people to be saying, 'Hopefully, the next phase of Lotus products will be able to address deficiencies A, B and C...'  If they really knock this one out of the park, excitement and anticipation for the all-new models will be very high; a great deal of the necessary marketing/awareness will be achieved from that alone.

[C8RKH]

Go take a look at the PCM/ICE in a 996 Porsche. A COMMAND system in a merc SL500 from 5 or 10 years ago etc.  All were state of the art at the time, all look and operate like shite now. £3,4, 5k options when new.

I quite like how Lotus use a non integrated Double Din system as it means you can easily change it for something else.

[Bee]

3 hours ago, C8RKH said:

Go take a look at the PCM/ICE in a 996 Porsche. A COMMAND system in a merc SL500 from 5 or 10 years ago etc.  All were state of the art at the time, all look and operate like shite now. £3,4, 5k options when new.

I quite like how Lotus use a non integrated Double Din system as it means you can easily change it for something else.

Yeah, ideally the industry, as a whole, should be looking into upgradable systems, but as Andy said, perhaps the ICE is seen as one more way to make your car feel obsolete in 5 yrs time so you feel pressured into a new one!

 

It will be interesting to see what directions Lotus take in this front. 'Luxury' was a word being thrown around a bit so I suspect fairly high-end specs. You're 100% right, though - high-end looks ordinary at best after 5 yrs if it's integrated and can't be easily updated.

[C8RKH]

29 minutes ago, Bee said:

the ICE is seen as one more way to make your car feel obsolete in 5 yrs time so you feel pressured into a new one!

This in spades.

[au-yt]

2 hours ago, Bee said:

Yeah, ideally the industry, as a whole, should be looking into upgradable systems, but as Andy said, perhaps the ICE is seen as one more way to make your car feel obsolete in 5 yrs time so you feel pressured into a new one!

 

It will be interesting to see what directions Lotus take in this front. 'Luxury' was a word being thrown around a bit so I suspect fairly high-end specs. You're 100% right, though - high-end looks ordinary at best after 5 yrs if it's integrated and can't be easily updated.

Recently a TV story was aired in Australia , about the push to make things repairable and how Australia needs to follow the EUs lead on this. I agree with Bee and to take that one step further in that systems should be upgrade able in the same case. ICE systems should be no different to PCs ( not Mac's which are like cars).  This repairable push was also people have access to car diagnostic system in line with US where law states the manufactures must give access to the data or not sells cars.

[Likuid]

I don't completely disagree, but most car company's don't make cars for people buying them used in 10 years. They make them for people buying them new now. Bugatti is one of the few companies I have heard that tried mot to put too much touch screen kind of stuff in their cars because they want them to be timeless. However comparing a Veyron to an Evora...its just not the same. Most Veyrons will be driven so little not that not having any modern conveniences isn't much of an issue.

I mean...I guess what's Lotus' goal. To sell more cars or to barely sell any cars? They already tried the latter and lately it hasn't been working out too well. You will have a hard time convincing your average customer buying a brand new car that a double din is much better than an integrated system. If the car is a great car, an integrated system is not going to be a deal breaker for 99.99% of people. Whereas a double DIN aftermarket will turn off a lot more. I mean almost every review of the Evora one of the first things they point out as a negative is the double DIN after market system.

Although I am all for a system that can be upgraded or replaced.

Edited March 17, 2019 by Likuid

[NedaSay]

Lotus Evil...

https://www.carscoops.com/2019/03/thats-a-wonderfully-evil-vision-about-a-possible-lotus-hypercar/