What made your blood boil today?

[Colin P]

40 minutes ago, march said:

You militant bunch of buggers! 🙂

I farm (well sort of),I don't ride a bike, I have a Range Rover (but it's broken) and the farm has only made money once in the last 10 years and I have a Lotus - What does that make me then?

I’m curious on this statement. I’ve seen lots of quotes from farmers saying that they lose money every year, but cannot believe this at face value. Surely if true then bankruptcy would have long since occurred?

is it just a part of the business? In which case not really a fair statement. Does it include the owner taking their “dividend” leaving a zero balance sheet?

Not making any assertions, I just don’t  understand how it can be true. 

[Barrykearley]

Let’s just consider. 

Profit shows £70k...... then let’s use our capital allowances on say a new £75k tractor or 4x4....... hey presto - £5k loss.....

[march]

2 minutes ago, Barrykearley said:

Let’s just consider. 

Profit shows £70k...... then let’s use our capital allowances on say a new £75k tractor or 4x4....... hey presto - £5k loss.....

I wish.

[Barrykearley]

Just now, march said:

I wish.

Which one - the profit or the capital allowances....

[mayevora]

Listening to Gary Neville’s dreadful high pitched drivel attempt at England Commentary (again) 

Staying silent, not opening mouth and saying nothing at all would have made the game so much more enjoyable to the entire English listening human race 🤬

[C8RKH]

1 hour ago, march said:

You militant bunch of buggers! 🙂

I farm (well sort of),I don't ride a bike, I have a Range Rover (but it's broken) and the farm has only made money once in the last 10 years and I have a Lotus - What does that make me then?

A poor farmer? 🤣

 

Only joking....  It means you're not a "big" farmer I guess. But then if you were you wouldn't fit into a Lotus!

[Barrykearley]

2 hours ago, march said:

You militant bunch of buggers! 🙂

I farm (well sort of),I don't ride a bike, I have a Range Rover (but it's broken) and the farm has only made money once in the last 10 years and I have a Lotus - What does that make me then?

May I interest you in a chicken shed ??? Nice little return on investment 👍

[Kimbers]

13 hours ago, march said:

You militant bunch of buggers! 🙂

I farm (well sort of),I don't ride a bike, I have a Range Rover (but it's broken) and the farm has only made money once in the last 10 years and I have a Lotus - What does that make me then?

How very dare you earn a wage and use it to buy a Lotus! And in Essex as well! Shouldn't you be exploiting your land and turning it into housing estates?  

I suspect Pete, like many people in the trade I am in, your business trades to earn you a wage, not build a huge bottom line. But you don't go telling everyone who will listen that you can't afford to run the farm.....and then jump in a brand new car etc. 

Its about integrity. "My farm doesn't make any money, but I pay the wages and earn a crust for myself" I can get behind. 

[Chillidoggy]

14 hours ago, march said:

You militant bunch of buggers! 🙂

I farm (well sort of),I don't ride a bike, I have a Range Rover (but it's broken) and the farm has only made money once in the last 10 years and I have a Lotus - What does that make me then?

Broke, if you have a V8.

[johnpwalsh]

My uncle who farmed all his life, never had a car, used a bike to get about, never had a licence. Died last year at the age of 92. Mind you. He never married and never owned a Lotus. Left a few quid though. RIP uncle Jim.

[silverfrost]

Depends what they Farm and how large their land mass is. I have spoken to a few farmers and having been shown the kit they have to buy these days to keep up with their competition.

The cost of some of the langer tracorset,  combines and other massive stuff that looked like it came from NATO is scary.

You are talking units costing more than 200 to 300k a shot ! 

Folks feel worried about having a car on finance imagine having a few million quids worth on the never never !

[march]

I entered farming with views that the countryside should be preserved and agricultural land should remain agricultural land, after all we all need feeding. Over the years I have become quite disillusioned with the situation.

A few ramblings from a  grumpy old git:

1. The agricultural system is very heavily biased to large farms and penalises small traditional farms (especially hill farms) and it appears to be getting worse each year. Small family run farms are going to the wall on a regular basis. In reality these small extensive (opposite of intensive) farms have been the custodians of the countryside and wildlife over the years. This is set by the EU but our government seems to endorse it.

2. Dairy farms are going to the wall on a daily basis as 'you' the public do not want to pay a fair price for milk - yes this has been driven down by the supermarkets but the end user ultimately creates the price.

3. The grant scheme is completely broken (again set by the EU and implemented by our government).

            a. Just to get this correct, the grants enable 'you' to have artificially cheap food, often the cost of producing Beef is higher than the return hence the need for grants, also don't forget that we have some of the highest animal welfare standards in the world.

           b. The current batch of rules for the grants are anti-farming when taken as a whole with the associated regulations often contradicting each other. This time we have decided to take the grants (don't get too excited it's about £4000.00 a year) as we can earn more (or lose less) by winding the farm down and just tick over. It's bonkers.

           c. One of the biggest scams is the ability to buy land and it's grant entitlements and then then sell it on and keep the entitlements, so you can have all the grants without any liability. I am pretty sure this one is down to George Osborne. There are people out there who collect millions in grants but don't actually own any land - work that one out.

4. Lets look at the case of the houses being built on farm land. Personally I am dead against this practice but if a developer came up to you and offered to turn a piece of your land worse say £50,000.00 into land worth millions, what would you do? Just saying. I bet @Barrykearley would have a new garage and a few mores Esprit's within months🙂. Rather than blame the farmer I would look to your planning dept and council - but that's another thread.

5. As for the nice new shiny kit. Farmers need reliable equipment, broken tractor can easily mean big problems at harvest, feeding time etc.. Also a lot of the new big stuff is leased (farm equipment depreciation is completely different to cars which can mean relatively cheap lease costs, it can also be tax efficient but will still be a scary amount).

6. If you have a business which can require an investment of millions (I am talking about land primarily) is it not too much to expect a return on your investment?

 

I will admit there are definite advantages to running a farm - a lovely environment, tax benefits, working for oneself etc.. - being wealthy is definitely not one of them, certainly for us. Please do not bash farmers too much or you may end up eating Chlorine dipped chicken, GM cereals, Beef full of Antibiotics and chemicals as well as supporting a food chain that has little or no respect for animal welfare.

From your Friendly (sometimes) certified Organic Farmer.

[C8RKH]

@march - that's a nice post and I do sympathise!  I know. Shocking isn't it 😀

I know several farmers like you. Generally good sound people, bobbing along, trying to do the right thing, earn a living, protect something for the future etc.

However, you have called out the issues yourself. We have a corrupt EU farming and subsidy system that allows some individuals to quite frankly take the piss and rape and pillage. They use the subsidies to fund the acquisition of small holdings, kill off the small farmer, and rinse and repeat the cycle whilst systematically enriching themselves. So, in essence, we have a corrupt farming system that allows some farmers to corrupt it even more for personal gain.

As for the cost of food - personally, maybe it should go up and we should stop artificially keeping the price down. A shortage of supply will mean the power will shift from the retailer (highway robbers more like - give me all you got for nothing or I will shoot you) to the producer (you can have my produce for this which gives me a reasonable profit / living).

Higher food prices = less food bought = less food eaten = less fat bastards and less waste (we chuck away an indecent amount of good food every year - it is obscene!).

So, I blame some farmers. I blame the EU and our useless short sighted politicians. I blame the retailers. And, I blame the consumer.

However, non of this detracts from the fact that a large number of farmers make a very substantial return from their, errm, shall we say investments, every year.

[mayevora]

Today I unfortunately witnessed some disgusting behaviour on beech here in Devon. A man and a woman arguing in front of a load of kids. Then she smacked him one right across the head and it all kicked off between them! The Police then turned up and the Policeman ended up using his baton on the bloke who then managed to get the baton off the Policeman and started hitting the Copper and the woman with it! Eventually a crocodile turned up and stole all the sausages.

😡

[Dave Eds]

39 minutes ago, mayesprit said:

Today I unfortunately witnessed some disgusting behaviour on beech here in Devon. A man and a woman arguing in front of a load of kids. Then she smacked him one right across the head and it all kicked off between them! The Police then turned up and the Policeman ended up using his baton on the bloke who then managed to get the baton off the Policeman and started hitting the Copper and the woman with it! Eventually a crocodile turned up and stole all the sausages.

😡

That's the way to do it!

[yeller77]

On 19/06/2018 at 04:25, johnpwalsh said:

 He never married and never owned a Lotus.

Two keys to still having a few quid when called to the hereafter!

[C8RKH]

12 hours ago, mayesprit said:

Today I unfortunately witnessed some disgusting behaviour on beech here in Devon. A man and a woman arguing in front of a load of kids. Then she smacked him one right across the head and it all kicked off between them! The Police then turned up and the Policeman ended up using his baton on the bloke who then managed to get the baton off the Policeman and started hitting the Copper and the woman with it! Eventually a crocodile turned up and stole all the sausages.

😡

And the Daily Mail ran with the headline - "Brexit causes major disturbance on the beach".

And the BBC reported it as  "peaceful Anti-Brexit protest descends into violence as Remainer and Police attacked by a baton wielding Brexiteer on the beach"

Seems everything these days is the fault of Brexit so why not.....

[Chillidoggy]

25 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

And The Independent ran with the headline - "Brexit causes major disturbance on the beach".

And the BBC reported it as  "peaceful Anti-Brexit protest descends into violence as Remainer and Police attacked by a baton wielding Brexiteer on the beach"

Seems everything these days is the fault of Brexit so why not.....

FTFY

[David85]

42 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

 

Seems everything these days is the fault of Brexit so why not.....

I might have already said in another thread... but I've honestly had enough of hearing about Brexit. I was/am a passionate Leave voter.

The Leave vote won, just get us out. I now turn over the radio/TV whenever I hear "Brexit"... I'm just sick of it. Tell me when it's done and what deal we got. Or, more likely, tell me when the vote has been subverted and I need to go and march on Parliament.

I even joined the Conservative Party (based on now being able to vote in party leadership elections), so that I could vote in a more pro-Brexit PM if Theresa May is sacked. But all that has amounted to is a raft of emails asking for money..... "David.... we need your help to stop Labour, give us a tenner".

[Kimbers]

I love the doom sayers and the way the BBC report on a "Massive turn out for Anti Brexit Supporters" now, look at the wording not "Pro Stay" which is slightly positive but "Anti Brexit".

they also posted pictures of hundreds of thousands saying there is huge support for staying. I replied to one of my mates that "Yep thats still a lot less than the number of people who voted for Brexit above those who voted to stay!". 

Many of these people only believe in Democracy when it suits them and their beliefs. And as for me reading one teenager saying "It's my life and old people have ruined it for all of us...." Yes mate that sums up your generation "me, me, me, me", sod the fact you wouldn't even be here if it wasn't for "old people" and what they have done for the country!

 

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[David85]

Different generations have always blamed each other for life's woes. I'm not sure I subscribe to the adversarial narrative.

I am technically a "millennial", in that I came into adulthood at the turn of the millennium. 

For young people to blame those that are older than them, and the other stuff I've heard like "they'll be dead soon", is just barmy and indicative of the low regard with which we hold our later generations in this country. On the other hand, not all millennial people are gender fluid, top knot wearing, avocado munching cretins.

It's the debate about a bad-BREXIT that is now causing a bad BREXIT! Just bloody crack on with it. 

David Cameron tried to get us a "good deal", and the EU basically laughed at him, well look where that led them. 

[Kimbers]

Ok, to get away from Brecit here's one that has really made my blood boil today!

So Social care is at rock Bottom for retired people because of Govt cuts and a rise in the number of Older people. What to do? Increase Tax by 1% for everyone? Increase National Insurance for everyone? Get the Govt to stop cutting cutting cutting and "Cut" Foreign Aid to pay for our own people who need help?

Ohhhhhh no. The MP's have decided there needs to be an "Old Age Tax" for over 40's only (Because obviously Young people won't ever get old and need social care). So just when you have a little spare income and can finally do some things you have worked hard all your life for, they want to tax you more cause you are getting old, worked hard all your life and and have a little spare income. Well F**K Off I hav e seen it all now!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-44621047

[C8RKH]

This yet again is just running after votes of the younger generation - they HAVE benefitted from their parents wealth and continue to do so and will inherit a large part of that wealth, far larger than the current "older" generation ever inherited. Yet again this is politicians pandering the "i want it all and i want it now as it's just not fair" bluster and bullshit from the feckless younger generations.

I'm getting fed up. When i bough my first house, a 2 up 2 down mid terrace it cost me £25k. My salary was £4.5k per year and the only way I could afford was because both me and the girlfriend had a combined income of £8k pa.  We took out a 2.5 times joint earning mortgage and within 9 months the interest rates had jumped from circa 5% to 15% and I was working full time, my girlfriend was working full time and I had two part time jobs just to keep afloat. Well, that was fooking easy. Easy life, yeah!!!!

These days, a grad will start around £20-25k and a lower paid job around £12k for a combined income of around £30-37k is not unreasonable.  3, 4 even 5 times mortgages are available so that gives a max mortgage of £90 - 185k - quite a spread.  In most parts of the country you can get a decent place (certainly a 2 up 2 down mid terrace) with the obvious exception of the ludicrously priced London and the home counties /south east area. How is that widely different to my experience and why is it viewed that I had it easy?  Total and utter bollocks. This just shows to me that the MP's are just totally out of touch with reality.

Why the fook should I work hard to look after myself and my family and provide, then see my retirement jealously watched over and my hard earned savings picked away by a bunch of feckless MPs?  I could spend my whole life on the dole. Contribute jack shit and the council would still have to provide me with basic care and when needed a care home.  About time we skewed the balance back.

If your local MP is supporting this further, blatant attack, on responsible, hard working citizens then please do make sure that you make it very very clear to them that they will not be getting your vote at the next election.  The younger generation need to stop their fecking whinging and just get on with it. End of. (noted that not ALL of the younger generation are totally feckless, useless, whinging, scrounging, lazy, good for nothing, wastrels - I do have a 24 and 21 year old who work for a living!)

[Sparky]

Not often I comment on stuff like this.  Kimbers/Andy, I wholeheartedly agree with you, BUT...

This has been brewing for a long time.  Science can now increase human longevity way beyond an individual's ability to function as a 'contributor'.  A species has only one goal: to perpetuate itself.  Essentially, once you've brought up your young you are no longer useful.  Combine this with social mores dictating that we keep an individual alive at all costs, and you have a time bomb.  The system can no longer support its older contingent.

My son-in-law manages the radiology department in a major London hospital.  He tells me that more than 50% of the people he now scans (many before/during major life-saving procedures) are geriatrics all but incapable of communication.  A fair few who can communicate are pretty much hoping to shuffle off, but we won't let them.  The cost is monumental.

The amount of cash/effort poured into my Dad's end-of-life care last year was staggering.  It satisfied moral requirements but did nothing more than delay the inevitable for him and his family.  It's unsustainable on a macro scale.

I know this'll be contentious, but my charity donations no longer go to the likes of heart/cancer concerns.  I now give to hospitals and hospices.

[Kimbers]

that is absolutely your choice Sparky and I hear what you are saying. What the Govt seem to be saying is you can't choose to give to charity. If you have a little spare income we want it for Social Care, and have taken that choice away!

It doesn't seem right or fair that I have done similar to Andy and worked 3 jobs most of my life, still doing 2 now, and so is Wendy, so we can afford some nice things and a nice holiday and the Govt look at that as an opportunity to tax. Like ANdy says I see this as pandering to the Young vote and it doesn't sit well with me. Politics of Jealousy.