S4s rolling restoration project

[tomcattom]

I haven't come across any switches related to the fans in the wiring diagrams for the S4s, or at least not in the fan diagram I have shown above.

Either way even if the temperature sensor was at fault surely I should still be able to signal the fans from the mode 4 screen in Espritmon?

[Barrykearley]

I’m assuming now your temp gauge registers the engine temp??

[tomcattom]

It didn't when I bought the car. Replacing the sender for the dashboard gauge was the very first thing I changed.

The coolant temperature sensor seems to be giving sensible readings in Espritmon, so I think that one is okay too.

[Chillidoggy]

1 hour ago, tomcattom said:

I haven't come across any switches related to the fans in the wiring diagrams for the S4s, or at least not in the fan diagram I have shown above.

Either way even if the temperature sensor was at fault surely I should still be able to signal the fans from the mode 4 screen in Espritmon?

 

Check Page 9 in EMH2, and page 4 and page 7 of the Revised Wiring harness.

Do the fans come on when you switch the Air-Con on? If not I suggest a look at the temperature probe.

[tomcattom]

Thanks Ian. I've already looked at those various pages. The fans don't come on with the A/C but I'm not sure that is necessarily the problem I have here. It might be another problem I don't know about yet, but I'm not sure its the problem at hand. I don't even know if the A/C is actually gassed if I'm honest (it was freezing cold/snowing when I test drove the car so couldn't really tell if the A/C was working or not and I wasn't really bothered about that either). If the A/C isn't gassed the low pressure cut-off would prevent it sending a signal to the ECU anyway, so I'm not sure I can really rely on that as any sort of test at present.

The way I understand it from reading the EMH section and the wiring diagrams is the only way that the fans can actually be swtiched on is by the ECU grounding the radiator fan control relay. The ECU determines if the fans need to be turned on is based on combinations of various inputs to the ECU (assuming battery voltage is not too low) those being, I think:

1. Coolant temp >90C
2. A/C on and road speed <35mph
3. CEL active
4. Manual activation from Tech-1 or Espritmon etc

If Espritmon can't actuate this fan control output and turn the fans on does that not mean that there is a fault on QDM A in the ECU, or do all those inputs still have to be working correctly for Espritmon to be able to manually override the fans?

I've removed the heath-robinson bodged fan override wiring too just to rule that out as a cause of the fault and its made no difference. That said the more I have thought about it, the way it was wired in it could quite easily have done damage to the fan output on the ECU given where and how it was wired in.

[sailorbob]

Since you previously had a QDM fault code and you cannot activate the fans using Espritmon that suggests there is a problem with the quad driver and/or its associated circuitry.  Try checking the voltage at pin A19 on the ecu wiring harness connector with a high impedance digital voltmeter when using Espritmon to activate/deactivate the fans.

[tomcattom]

1 hour ago, sailorbob said:

Since you previously had a QDM fault code and you cannot activate the fans using Espritmon that suggests there is a problem with the quad driver and/or its associated circuitry.  Try checking the voltage at pin A19 on the ecu wiring harness connector with a high impedance digital voltmeter when using Espritmon to activate/deactivate the fans.

Funny you should write that because I've just come back in from the garage having done just that.

I hooked up my trusty DVM to A19 and it's permanently being driven to around 14V irrespective of the fan control in Espritmon so looks like the ECM is toast Best get that replacement ordered from the US now.

Based on the way the fan override was wired in I think that was what has killed it because there is no form of protection for the ECU the way it was done. I'd have put a protective diode in if it were me. Now begs the question of why a previous owner felt the need to fit a fan override in the first place - do other S4s owners have a fan override? Looks like my next job will be to inspect the condition of the radiator.

 

[Chillidoggy]

Hopefully the new ECM will solve the problem.

In answer to your question, I can only say that there's no override on my car, and the wiring diagrams don't show one, either. And hopefully there won't be any other PO bodges, but brace yerself, cos I found loads on mine!

[Sparky]

My GT3 came with a manual fan bodge, after a Lotus 'specialist' failed to find the issue, butchered the ECU wiring, and drilled a 1960s chrome switch into the dash at the most prominent position possible.  I've never gotten around to sorting it.

[Chillidoggy]

46 minutes ago, Sparky said:

My GT3 came with a manual fan bodge, after a Lotus 'specialist' failed to find the issue, butchered the ECU wiring, and drilled a 1960s chrome switch into the dash at the most prominent position possible.  I've never gotten around to sorting it.

Or cleaning it.

[Sparky]

Pah.  Cleaning is for sad old people from Kent.

Edited January 31, 2019 by Sparky

[fjmuurling]

On ‎30‎/‎01‎/‎2019 at 11:44, sailorbob said:

Since you previously had a QDM fault code and you cannot activate the fans using Espritmon that suggests there is a problem with the quad driver and/or its associated circuitry.  Try checking the voltage at pin A19 on the ecu wiring harness connector with a high impedance digital voltmeter when using Espritmon to activate/deactivate the fans.

If I'm right the pin for the rad fan relay is A9 and not A19.

[fjmuurling]

On ‎30‎/‎01‎/‎2019 at 12:45, tomcattom said:

Funny you should write that because I've just come back in from the garage having done just that.

I hooked up my trusty DVM to A19 and it's permanently being driven to around 14V irrespective of the fan control in Espritmon so looks like the ECM is toast Best get that replacement ordered from the US now.

Based on the way the fan override was wired in I think that was what has killed it because there is no form of protection for the ECU the way it was done. I'd have put a protective diode in if it were me. Now begs the question of why a previous owner felt the need to fit a fan override in the first place - do other S4s owners have a fan override? Looks like my next job will be to inspect the condition of the radiator.

 

The QDM's switch the outputs to ground when activated.

Search for a TPIC2404 datasheet. 

[tomcattom]

36 minutes ago, fjmuurling said:

If I'm right the pin for the rad fan relay is A9 and not A19.

You're right, it was A9, not A19 as typed. I tested A9, but typed A19 when I got back to the computer and then I couldn't find a way to edit it to correct it when I spotted the mistake.

[sailorbob]

Yes it's an error on my part , the fan relay control is on pin A9 (A19 is an unused quad driver output).

[tomcattom]

A VIP (Very Important Package) has just arrived 😋

It took just over a week to be delivered from the US which seemed pretty good to me. Hopefully it will cure my fan problems when I get chance to fit it later tonight or over the weekend.

[tomcattom]

Okay, so I didn't manage to replace the ECM at the weekend as hoped but I've just been out and swapped it over and the fans live once more 😀

While I was poking about in the ECM I popped the top off the memcal and took the following snap of it. Do these markings mean anything to anyone? According to Espritmon the EEPROM ID is 6CE5.

[tomcattom]

Been a bit quiet on the Esprit for the past month. I've had a big push on to get things ready in the house for the third and final installment of plastering which is scheduled to start a week on Monday, so I should then have a couple of weeks break in the refurbishment works do some spannering on the car while the plaster all dries up.

In readiness for that I've been amassing a collection of repair and servicing parts for the car.

 

Some more shiny bits that my wonderful wife bought me for my birthday 😎

 

 

Goods-in inspection! 😀

[silverfrost]

Looks like you have plenty of decent service parts and some bling to go on also    Have a set of those ferodo pads myself sitting in box to one day chance out the horrible green stuff pads that are fitted at the moment  !

[Chillidoggy]

Good grief! Have you managed to buy a Wayne's Ring for your gearchange? I thought he'd ceased production.

[tomcattom]

3 hours ago, silverfrost said:

Looks like you have plenty of decent service parts and some bling to go on also    Have a set of those ferodo pads myself sitting in box to one day chance out the horrible green stuff pads that are fitted at the moment  !

Given this is the most expensive car I've ever bought I didn't think it would make much sense to short change myself on the servicing.

1 hour ago, Chillidoggy said:

Good grief! Have you managed to buy a Wayne's Ring for your gearchange? I thought he'd ceased production.

No idea who made it, but I believe it was bought from PNM.

[Chillidoggy]

57 minutes ago, tomcattom said:

Given this is the most expensive car I've ever bought I didn't think it would make much sense to short change myself on the servicing.

No idea who made it, but I believe it was bought from PNM.

Wayne's Ring was the stuff of legends in Romford. No self-respecting owner would be without one, eh@top-plumber?

 

 

[top-plumber]

4 hours ago, Chillidoggy said:

Wayne's Ring was the stuff of legends in Romford. No self-respecting owner would be without one, eh@top-plumber?

 

 

Glad to see you are keeping my ring polished for me Ian... 

Pete did buy a few. Must be getting near the end now...unless he has had copies... wouldn’t  be the first time someone coverted my ring hombre...✌️

[tomcattom]

Well that was a not so fun hour out in the garage.

Further investigations on the gearbox mount bolt has revealed that there is no snapped bolt left in the gearbox, because the threaded portion of the gearbox appears to have been snapped off somehow. I'm not sure quite how I'm going to tackle that little problem at the present time, so any thought greatly received.

And having got the boot floor out with the assistance of my wife, I noticed that it appears the rear body to chassis mount on the offside is broken. I gather this is a pretty common occurrence. I decided to try and remove the crusty bolt and somewhat unsurprisingly the bolt sheared clean off, so I'll be ordering a new one of those for when I'm done with the fibreglass repairs.

[Chillidoggy]

My best guess ref the gearbox - how much thread depth have you got left? If it’s reasonable, you could clean up the alloy, and screw a stud in with some Devcon ally repair or similar as support. Failing that, the casing would probably have to be repaired or replaced.