2bular, is it a crappy exhaust?

[C8RKH]

You know @RoflOnMyWaffle the irony in this thread is that Jim has probably sold hundreds of exhausts and has hundreds of happy customers. He probably has a few unhappy customers too, but hey, show me any business that has 100% customer satisfaction and I'll show you a business that is not telling the truth! lol

I can find quite a few examples of where Jim "has gone off on one", however, usually though it is after he has tried to explain, maybe in technical / engineering terms, his point of view and usually when he believes (whether he is right in this or not is not the point) the other party is taking the piss and not being as open as he is with all the facts. I guess he lets his frustration get the better of him.

However, I can find many more examples of where Jim's work has been praised, endorsed and supported. So i guess we all have a choice as to where we spend our money and who with. No issue with that.

The tone of this thread was set by the OP in my opinion - "crappy", "thin metal", "chinese poor quality" etc. I still do believe that the issues should have been dealt with one to one, and after resolution, good or bad, should then have been shared in a more reasoned manner and just maybe this thread would have been happier.

[RoflOnMyWaffle]

Exactly.
As my folks used to say, you can sell something 100 times, it works perfectly well and you will get no praise, but the moment one goes wrong all hell breaks loose! 

Just to be clear - I understand both sides of the argument, as I have been known to fly off on one rather easily ( courtesy car, remember? hahaha ) But I get both sides.
Hopefully the OP can get a new "better" exhaust sorted and we can close this case

On the plus side, anyone wanna sell me one of those "crappy" Jim boxes for cheap? Could do with some more loudness... I'll give ya £50       

 

[C8RKH]

Let he who is sinless cast the first stone or whatever the quote was/is. I would be near the end of the line of stone throwers, not the front!  

[tim_marra]

1 hour ago, C8RKH said:

Let he who is sinless cast the first stone or whatever the quote was/is. 

I think the end of that joke is "ok mother, there's no need to show off"

[Advantage]

Although, to be fair to the OP, it's not how a business reacts when things are good and lovely, it's how they respond when things go tits up that is important. I don't subscribe to the "Customer is Always Right" mantra because some customers are knobs, but I'm surprised at the level on unprofessionalism on display. 

[mark248am]

3 hours ago, C8RKH said:

The tone of this thread was set by the OP in my opinion - "crappy", "thin metal", "chinese poor quality" etc. I still do believe that the issues should have been dealt with one to one, and after resolution, good or bad, should then have been shared in a more reasoned manner and just maybe this thread would have been happier.

1

To be fair to the OP, his 380 Cup ended up catching fire. If my car caught fire because of the exhaust, I would have probably posted a lot of uglier words

[C8RKH]

Just now, mark248am said:

To be fair to the OP, his 380 Cup ended up catching fire. If my car caught fire because of the exhaust, I would have probably posted a lot of uglier words

Ah, now then, there is the rub. Was it because of the exhaust or not the fire?  The OP failed, if I have read the two sides of the story correctly, to mention he had previously had a high speed spin/off which would have placed a lot of pressure on the engine, mounts and exhaust and could have caused it to twist etc. This was one of the key points 2bular was making re the explanation for the failure.  The OP's view was it was because of crappy outsourced chinese welds and thin crappy metal being used. 

So, was the issue down to a faulty exhaust or the spin?  This is the rub. I do wish people would pay attention!  (lol - will probably now be called arrogant and judgemental again......)  ho hum.  

[Gekko the great]

Since the engine did not have any damage, I think the fault is due to the poor quality of the material and welds used to manufacrure the exhaust .

Other brands "Larini, Hart, Devil etc etc" do not suffer from these problems but if  you manufacture them in China this could happen.

Imputating guilt at high rpm , high speed spins or rigid connections is a nonsense.

The Porsche GT2 has a twin turbos fitted 30 cm from the exhaust and it does not seem to me that the exhaust goes into flames.

2bular collaborated with Komo-tec, now no longer cooperates, did you wonder why?

I didn't open my topic to get a refund, I would not buy a 2bular even if Ironman would  weld it but my car caught fire and, believe me, it's not nice to drive a car that is going up in flames.

I only wanted to share (I think that's why the forums exist) what happened to me.

Anyone of you can buy all the 2bular exhausts, I only hope that what happened to me won't happen to anyone else.

@GFWilliams, I check the car after any trackday, and nothing was telling me that the exhaust could have opened , have you seen my pics , the side bulkhead gave way like butter

@C8RKH do we know each other? Did we go clubbing together? I don't bleat as I'm not a sheep. Be more polite with the person you don't know 

@geartox I agree with you

@Bibs it's quite interesting what you mentioned about other advertisers

@Edinburgh 111s  don't get sad about alternatives , there're plenty of very good quality and even cheaper

Maybe 2bular exhausts were the best , but now they aren't anymore , think guys, think .

Cheers

[C8RKH]

34 minutes ago, Gekko the great said:

2bular collaborated with Komo-tec, now no longer cooperates, did you wonder why?

This seems to be the answer to your question from the UK Komo Tec dealers website. Seems like they cannot guarantee the power output from equipment that is outside their control - i.e. they can tune it better and more consistently for their own known designs.  

Q: I have a 2bular exhaust manifold and decat fitted to my Exige V6 and would like one of the Komo-Tec upgrades.  Will this be okay?

A: After long discussions with our partners Komo-Tec, they found that most exhaust systems other than their own specially developed manifolds and catalysts did not achieve the target power or torque and therefore weren’t recommended.

 

Oh and they also say this too which contradicts you too. I can understand fully how a company like KomoTec or H111 would want to have some control over the individual components in what is a high performance power upgrade kit. Seems like sense to me. But maybe you know best and it is because they concluded the 2bular exhausts were just crappy thin metal from China.

 

 If I have a problem with a Hangar 111 or Komo-Tec exhaust system, where do I stand on warranty?

A: In the unlikely event that you experience any issues with a Hangar 111 or Komo-Tec exhaust product, we will always do our best to rectify things if we are given the chance to do so.  Exhaust systems can be subject to various methods of abuse!  Most of these we have tried to cate for in our designs, however some are harder to predict than others!  Impact damage, frequent spinning on track (or gearbox breaking), even landing the car after a take-off can cause excessive stresses on the exhaust system – especially the manifold and catalyst sections. We are very pragmatic about such things and always try to help.  For normal users we offer a 12 month warranty!

 

 

[Barrykearley]

Anyone know anything about the present Brexit situation 

[Gekko the great]

1 hour ago, Barrykearley said:

Anyone know anything about the present Brexit situation 

Seems the Pound skyrocketed vs Euro and Usd

🚀🚀🚀👍👍☺☺

[Lo2zz]

14 hours ago, Gekko the great said:

 

I only wanted to share (I think that's why the forums exist) what happened to me.

 

Cheers

But you haven't have you?

You haven't shared the full story - you've come on the forum with an incendiary headline and picked bits and pieces that fit your narrative. 

The chronology of the events has been made very clear - and I'm afraid you look rather silly now. 

Jim gave you a 'free' exhaust after you ordered the wrong one

You drove your car after a high speed spin seemingly oblivious to any damage that would have been done. Any of the other exhausts 'might' have been affected in the same way.

On other forums such incendiary and direct feedback against a company wouldn't be tolerated - I'm not sure why it's been allowed here without evidence 

I think anyone with any level of intelligence will see through your version of events for what it is. An angry wild stab in the dark at who you think is the guilty party based on 2+2=5 logic

Your car is absolutely lovely. Your diatribe less so.

I hope you get it fixed and it's back on the track soon - but your anger is misplaced on this one.

 

[vd9]

@Lo2zz, but he surely can express his views and share his experience with regards to the product? And surely it is not acceptable to turn the discussion into being person and not product orientated?

Adoption of the story of high speed spin bringing an end to everything in the car is just ridiculous - a spin is not an impact, it normally causes no damage. Your judgement and  formulations (e.g. "look rather silly", "wouldn't be tolerated", "without evidence", "with any level of intelligence", "angry wild stab in the dark", "based on 2+2=5 logic") are utterly disrespectful and not adequate in exchange between any reasonable people.

[C8RKH]

@vd9 - I actually agree with you regards to the product focus and it should not be turned personal, however, for one minute consider:

1. the OP did not need to share his personal comms with the product supplier

2. A high speed spin, as confirmed above by a different supplier, can be a major factor in an exhaust failing - are we still disputing that?

3. The OP need not have started a thread in the way it was (heading, attitude etc.) and could have shared in a different way their experience and dissatisfaction

4. The OP did not divulge all the facts relating to the how, what and the where - given that are you surprised the supplier was equally angry in their response and are you saying they have no right to defend themselves, their product or the reputation which is what they rely upon to make their living, especially as they had already responded positively by providing a new exhaust when the OP had gone against their usage advice in the first place?

 

The whole thing could have been better handled from start to finish including my own input to the thread.

[RedViper]

This thread is getting more ridiculous by the day. 

Perhaps one thing would make it a lot clearer. Gekko. Was your fire immediately preceded by a high speed spin into the gravel? 

Secondly you said previously you removed the heat shield around the diffuser??

[C8RKH]

31 minutes ago, RedViper said:

This thread is getting more ridiculous by the day. 

Perhaps one thing would make it a lot clearer. Gekko. Was your fire before or after a high speed spin at any time previously? 

Secondly you said previously you removed the heat shield around the diffuser??

FTFY

[mdw]

22 hours ago, Advantage said:

Although, to be fair to the OP, it's not how a business reacts when things are good and lovely, it's how they respond when things go tits up that is important.

Spot on and if you sort  it properly and promptly ( without just bending over) the customer can very often become one off your best advocates.    I would happily reuse some one who I know will resolve problems  if they occur.   Not so sure I would be up for a gamble like this as its not just the OP with his experience but a number of others as well. 

[C8RKH]

I actually think you are both missing the point

1. The OP went against the suppliers advice with the first choice - insisting on a valved exhaust

2. When the supplier was proven correct, he responded to the OP and gave him the right product

3. The OP had an accident in the car and there is the potential that this contributed to the failure but neither the OP nor others on here seem to want to acknowledge that

4. The OP comes on here and attacks a crappy product

Just seems fishy to me re have we really got the full facts? If we have, then fine, I'll shut up.

 

[Gashead1105]

Once again though, I find myself in agreement with @C8RKH's post above. The OP has been repeatedly questioned regarding this and ignored it.

To be fair to Jim, he's said for years on his website and when spoken that if you track the car, and don't strengthen the engine mounts, it's your problem. I remember putting Powerflex reinforcements into my S2 engine and gearbox mountings as a result. Now find myself wondering if I should do the same on the Evora.

Jim's posted another rant up on 2bular by the way regarding this thread. 🤣

[vd9]

35 minutes ago, Gashead1105 said:

Jim's posted another rant up on 2bular by the way regarding this thread. 🤣

[C8RKH]

Just read it and sighed. He's missed the point again.

[BatMobile]

my dad always said, there’s no smoke without fire!

Anyway just read Jim’s response and wow, why drag bibs into it. Bit harsh. 

Anyway I am running out of popcorn, can we hurry up and determine if the OP did spin because if I put my Jessica Fletcher hat on, that’s what she’d be asking. 

[vd9]

12 minutes ago, BatMobile said:

determine if the OP did spin

Nothing wrong with spinning, I believe...

 

Jokes aside, for me it is simple - even if 2bular is THE best exhaust for Lotus in the world, I will settle on the next best should I need one at all. And not because of Gekko and Gekko's experience, but because of Jim 

[Tex]

Not here to defend Jim necessarily, but if someone takes to social media to have a pop at him regardless of the reason then his right to reply is fully acceptable, albeit maybe not too everones taste.

Too many people post up ridiculous unfounded comments which get misinterpreted just like Chinese Whispers . I am sure Luca has good reason and is probably exasperated but not the way to do it .

Other people pile in with opinions and naturally the self defence senses kick in of the person who is being criticised. Most people would not express their critical opinion Face to Face, so why feel when you are a hundred miles away it’s ok !!

Always better to confront the issue or person without turning to Social Media at the first opportunity 

I should know as had my Thread partially removed by Bibs recently 😂

[C8RKH]

Are Chinese whispers more robust than Chinese exhausts? This is the question we need to answer.

But then, are the whispers or exhausts actually Chinese?  Hmmm, seems we now have a dilemma!