Brexit

[thebartman]

20 minutes ago, Chillidoggy said:

we do at least have the opportunity to vote them out every five years.

To what avail ?

Least-worst option?

and; why should we wait/suffer five years of crap (from any government) before we are then "allowed" to excorcise our democratic right.

A benevolent dictatorship is clearly the way to go, no-one else needs to support my view. 😉 

[pete]

Don't think the EU are the problem more Macron

[Chillidoggy]

2 hours ago, thebartman said:

To what avail ?

Least-worst option?

and; why should we wait/suffer five years of crap (from any government) before we are then "allowed" to excorcise our democratic right.

A benevolent dictatorship is clearly the way to go, no-one else needs to support my view. 😉 

Welcome to democracy!

[C8RKH]

17 hours ago, Doug Ashley said:

The greater & more immediate concern I have is what else the Vote Leave crew are now getting up to in Downing Street, with zero accountability

I'm struggling with this comment. Please explain how a UK Government avoids zero accountability.

 

If you really want an example of government not being accountable feel free to come and live in Scotland. It's never their fault, always Westminsters.

[Doug Ashley]

It’s difficult to know where to start with answering that. 

Perhaps with some examples of behaviour/performance which would have seen the PM & members of the cabinet lose their jobs in any other industry.
- The negligent initial Covid response. Described in a cross parliamentary committee report recently.

- Placing Covid hospital patients back into care homes without a negative test.

- The biggest economic slump from the pandemic in the G7.

- Signing a 'fantastic oven ready deal' which they limited parliamentary time to scrutinise, then threatening to renege on this international legal agreement less than a year later.

- Prioritising party donors (gov. contracts, peerages etc.)

- Patel having broken the ministerial code more than once.

None of which resulting in any consequences to the individuals, due to the party being given 100% of the power from a 43.6% vote share.

Some of these aren’t limited to this government, and this kind of thing has always happened. However it seems to me that there is a historically large amount of piss taking (or river sewage discharging…) going on.

Yes they might be voted out within 5 years (if Johnson doesn’t change the fixed term parliament act…), but the majority have and will continue to vote for something different, while FPTP just delivers more of the same.

Interesting comment about the Scottish government, some parallels with Westminster blaming the EU for everything.

Getting a bit off topic now though. I’d be interested in people's views on the latest Brexit development, i.e. raw sewage being pumped into our rivers & coastlines due to a lack of imported chemicals… 

[C8RKH]

On 22/10/2021 at 16:05, Doug Ashley said:

 

To be honest Doug that reads more like a list of grievances and whines than explaining how the UK Government / Ministers get away with zero accountability.

I can assure you that lots or people in the private sector get away with being, feckless, clueless, useless in their workplace. A lot of them get promoted, some to the Board, even though they have left a trail of chaos behind them.

So I'm going to say the case is not proven imho.

 

Great rant though 👍😁

[MJON]

Went along with this until I saw the comment on “RAW Sewage!” Each to their own opinions but yep, your talking Bol**x 😵‍💫

[Barrykearley]

Sadly water companies have been taking liberties for far too long and have indeed been discharging massive quantities of raw effluent into rivers for years and it’s only been getting worse.

frankly nothing to do with Brexit.

[RobinB5]

1 hour ago, MJON said:

Went along with this until I saw the comment on “RAW Sewage!” Each to their own opinions but yep, your talking Bol**x 😵‍💫

Try living next to the river Wye.

[RobinB5]

There's an evident correlation between a typical Lotus owner on this forum and right of centre politics, not surprisingly and me included. You'd hope and expect that the political party that represents your beliefs would be competent enough to prosecute them. I'm assuming @Doug Ashleydidn't vote conservative but I tend to agree with his points. Sure, they got Brexit done (good, will of the majority etc. etc.), but they do appear to be a bunch of self serving, narcissistic and pretty ineffective career politicians that are not in power due their abilities, rather simply said the right things at the right time and not being as obviously unable to govern as Labour. I expect more from the conservatives. Don't conflate one's beliefs with the abilities of the party you voted for. Just because they're in power doesn't mean they're fit for power. Johnson's a joke and I hope and assume that there's someone else in the conservative party better suited for leadership.

A labour government would be worse, but I really hope that a conservative government can be made better with a change of leadership.

[C8RKH]

1 hour ago, MJON said:

Went along with this until I saw the comment on “RAW Sewage!” Each to their own opinions but yep, your talking Bol**x 😵‍💫

Raw Sewage is not put into Rivers by the government. it is dumped into the rivers by irresponsible water companies, farmers and others. Indeed, let's not forget the massive fine that Southern Water were quite rightly hit with earlier this year. I'm not sure what your point was @MJON, I may have missed it, but I can assure you raw sewage finds its way onto beaches and into rivers an alarming number of times. Apologies if I got the "shitty" end of the stick there.

[Doug Ashley]

The government is apparently behind the recent changes, giving the green light.

https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/brexit-raw-sewerage-water-treatment-b1915765.html

There is a correction in the article, it’s not raw sewage but 'risky' having not had all the usual treatment steps.

I believe many conservatives would not recognise this government as conservative, as per @RobinB5

[MJON]

55 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

Raw Sewage is not put into Rivers by the government. it is dumped into the rivers by irresponsible water companies, farmers and others. Indeed, let's not forget the massive fine that Southern Water were quite rightly hit with earlier this year. I'm not sure what your point was @MJON, I may have missed it, but I can assure you raw sewage finds its way onto beaches and into rivers an alarming number of times. Apologies if I got the "shitty" end of the stick there.

You did, and you covered it in your own post here, as did @Doug Ashley I’m not disagreeing that raw sewage isn’t dumped. The current reports are referring to a lack of drivers due to “Brexit” not able to deliver chemicals involved in the 3rd stage of treatment, that decreases the risk of algae forming. It’s the headlines I object to, “No Fuel, Raw Sewage, No Christmas” etc. All of this fuelled by a wholly irresponsible media and those who want to believe it when it suits there opinions to bash every aspect of this country. 🤐

[Barrykearley]

37 minutes ago, Doug Ashley said:

I believe many conservatives would not recognise this government as conservative

Damn right - a massive parliamentary majority and still they faff about with economic migrants, rubber boats and 4/5star hotels. Ship illegals straight back no question - we do not need any further criminals with scant regard for the law. Only need to look at the headlines and everyday there’s a serious crime committed by such folks.

[C8RKH]

1 hour ago, Doug Ashley said:

The government is apparently behind the recent changes, giving the green light.

https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/brexit-raw-sewerage-water-treatment-b1915765.html

There is a correction in the article, it’s not raw sewage but 'risky' having not had all the usual treatment steps.

I believe many conservatives would not recognise this government as conservative, as per @RobinB5

That's behind a paywall so can't read the full article, however, your headline is like the BBC, misleading!  What it says is "supply chain disruption  leading to fears of water treatment chemical shortage".  This is different to the government apparently giving the green light!

However, the reality is, I believe, that the Environment Agency (which is by the way a  non-department public body so NOT part of a government body - so NOT the Government!), introduced a waiver to temporarily relax the rules until the end of the year (not forever!), on Tuesday of last week, so that some companies could APPLY (so no automatic right granted) for some waste to not go through the third and final stage of treatment which uses Ferric Sulphate to suppress (not eradicate) the growth of algae. 

There is currently NO SHORTAGE of Ferric Sulphate reported by an of the water companies in the UK, and so, to date, there has been NO APPLICATION for the waiver lodged by ANY water company.  The Agency has taken this action as a precautionary action only.

 

So surprise, surprise, YET AGAIN, we have fearmongering and scaremongering around what Brexit might do, BEFORE it is happened.  This pattern of "news" has been endemic in many branches of our so called "free press" and the BBC ever since the Brexit result was announced (and actually long before it).

 

I for one am getting fed up of the half arsed statements that are spread as in fact because people cannot read further than the headline!

[Doug Ashley]

Firstly, I confess I may well have over-simplified the issue, claiming (at the end of a bit of a rant) that 'it is happening'.  I'm sure there are no examples of news about the EU being over-simplified to sell papers over the last few decades... 😉😉

I've not found any direct evidence that it is the supply chain issues causing the increased volume of sewage reported all the way round the south coast of England in recent weeks.  However;

- The environment agency act on behalf of the government in response to the situation they find themselves in, and the relaxing of the rules is published on the government website (indeed in the BREXIT section  of the website...)

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/water-and-sewerage-company-effluent-discharges-supply-chain-failure-rps-b2

- The article I shared highlighted the relaxing of the rules is in response to the real risk of chemical supply shortages.  (Apologies, I thought you could see a small number of Independent articles before getting to the paywall).

- There have been reports of high water pollution levels in recent weeks, including some effects reported in the right wing press alongside an update on the latest government activity:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10125805/Fury-Tory-MPs-vote-allow-water-companies-dump-raw-sewage-Britains-rivers-seas.html

Overall it's a clear example of the UK & Brexit having resulted in companies not having to comply with previous rules which were put in place to protect the ordinary person & the environment.

How were you able to determine that water companies had not yet applied to use the relaxation in the rules?  It may well be true that the supply shortages have not yet had a real impact, but even if this were the case I'm sure you agree the risk has increased at least temporarily?

 

[Chillidoggy]

This isn’t news, at least not to local residents.

It’s been going on for bloody years round here, and certainly years before Brexit. One minute we’ve got blue flag beaches everywhere, the next there’s warning notices not to bathe in the sea. No doubt there’s data confirming it somewhere, a quick Google showed one such incident in 2012, and that’s just one of numerous occurrences.

[Bibs]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/fishing-castex-eu-france-uk-brexit-b1948202.html

[C8RKH]

Shocking comments in that article @Bibs. Anyone still out there who really believes the EU machine was not trying to crush us through the negotiations? Remember where the "leaks" came from!  I believe it's now the legitimate time to boycott all things French in the shops etc. These constant bitter, nasty attacks should be reacted to.

I for one will now stop buying anything French, even their red wine that I love. Enough is enough.

[Barrykearley]

9 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

I for one will now stop buying anything French, even their red wine that I love. Enough is enough.

Can’t recommend Romanian Red enough - I’m not normally a fan of red - but some of their stuff is superb. Boycotting French stuff is a great idea - I’ve been avoiding anything from there for a fair few years now - they really are dire in their behaviour towards the UK and have very short memories.

[MJON]

33 minutes ago, Barrykearley said:

Can’t recommend Romanian Red enough - I’m not normally a fan of red - but some of their stuff is superb. 

Yep, used to work out in Bucharest occasionally and a colleague still sends me some at Christmas. If you really want a great Red, got to be Italian, bit expensive but try Amarone 🍷

[C8RKH]

1 hour ago, Barrykearley said:

they really are dire in their behaviour towards the UK

It's this really. It's like listening constantly to the bitching and moaning of the SNP, only in French. I've had enough. To be honest I'd be quite happy if we just told them to fook off and rerouted all ferries through Northern Spain and the Netherlands.  Just stick two fingers up at them.  I'd rather have higher prices and shortages than have anything else to do with them, I've just had enough of the constant shit they throw at the UK.

 

[910Esprit]

Speaking of the SNP... Has anyone seen any comment from Nicola Sturgeon on this?   I find it rather ironic that France has 'captured' a Scottish vessel.  I also understand that its the Scottish government that are  responsible for the licencing status of the 'captured' vessel.    

[exeterjeep]

2 minutes ago, 910Esprit said:

I find it rather ironic that France has 'captured' a Scottish vessel. 

Had not heard that, they must not be that afraid of the Nicola.

The French have been a long term enemy in the past......

[Bibs]

On LBC yesterday they said that we've issued 98% of French applications for fishing permits, 750 I think it was. The 2% which haven't been issued are because the french boats can't prove they fished the area before Brexit due to incomplete paperwork before the split. France has issued 2 permits, 2, to UK boats to fish in EU (French) waters. And they are out for war.