Brexit

[basalte]

Having suffered a 25% decrease in their GDP...not a good position to be in !

Obviously I don`t know what was said to the EUrocrats by the Greeks afterwards but following on from Varoufakis`s arguments whoever it was probably reminded the Germans that  it was the same situation in Germany that got taken advantage of by that man with the silly moustache who shouted a lot ....not good for business or stability...

 

[Chillidoggy]

Indeed, but look at Germany now: Who"s the winner?

Greece milked the euro system for years, and the EU mandarins let them carry on. There was never any way they could pay back what they owed. The mandarins, scared shitless that Greece might drop out of the EU, and the whole house of cards would collapse, let them carry on by plugging them into a financial life-support system.

And theirin lies the problem today: The "cake and eat it generation". We've had a taste of the good life on the never-never, and don't want to pay the bill for it.

[Andyww]

5 minutes ago, ian29gte said:

 

And theirin lies the problem today: The "cake and eat it generation". We've had a taste of the good life on the never-never, and don't want to pay the bill for it.

Indeed. Unfortunately we seem to be heading back to the 70's which were dark times. People wanted, and believed, they could get everything despite doing a minimum amount of work.

That attitude seemed to diminish in the 80's where the work ethic seemed to reappear, but we are heading back there again. Its almost inevitable that we will have to suffer a socialist union-ruled government at some point in the near future. Like Hollande in France it will be a one-term government as people wake up to the unfolding disaster. 

[Chillidoggy]

The 70's were pretty dire. Seemed to me everyone was always on strike.

Perhaps I should have said:- "We've had a taste of the good life on the never-never, and don't want to pay the bill for it ourselves, instead we want anyone who might have some money to do it for us."

[basalte]

Reading more and more of the Varoufakis, the nearest we have to an existing Brexit experience.

Interesting that despite being one of the most left-wing people ever to hold high office in post-war Europe,

-he agrees 100% with Maggie Thatcher that the Euro was a poisonous idea. Briefly- 

its because she was correct to realise that the Euro would be under the control of a central bank, not politicians. That would be its fatal flaw.

The commitment to the Euro became a purely bureaucratic project, not a political one.  That undermined its foundations from day 1.  Once the effects of the credit crunch reverberated around Europe it had no solutions but fiscal ones, no flexibility or imagination to curb the instability that caused to its weakest member, Greece.  

[C8RKH]

Margaret Thatcher was a rock that has been much and wrongly maligned, particularly by a lot of people who benefitted from her reign. Her last term was a disater but an awful lot of normal working class folk got a huge leg up and standard of living boost thanks in no small part to her.

[ChrisJ]

Interesting website: http://www.lawyersforbritain.org/index.shtml

 

 

[silverfrost]

Intresting read Chris,  Nice to see folks are still coming round to the idea of Brexit,  I have seen more of a change of people not wanting Brexit now for some strange reason,  maybe they expected everything to change straight away and for it to be all rosey all the way through until we exit.  

I myself have just put it on the back burner and hope it all follows through and the UK settles down and hopefully the pound returns to normal or a little stronger soon, one of which is still not helped by the doom and gloom brigade that try and piss on the Brexit result.  

I have a feeling that once we battle through the low times at the moment, more due in reality to the folks high up in banking and goverment etc talking the country down which does not help the pound etc and inverstment and so on,  when we exit i feel other EU countries will of wished they had done the same imo.

So fingers crossed it will all be rosie 

[march]

1 hour ago, silverfrost said:

I have seen more of a change of people not wanting Brexit now for some strange reason

Perhaps the reason for this is they have seen the complete uselessness, self interest and general incompetence of the the British political class.

[Andyww]

A few people I know have gone from Brexit to Remain since the last election because the real possibility of a Corbyn government at some future time has put the fear of god into them. Adopting an ideology which has proven to fail every time it has been tried, both here and, in more extreme cases, elsewhere. 

The EU would put the brakes on a communist government and would not allow some of their more extreme policies.

Its strange how many Labour supporters dont realise this. Corbyn does, which is why he is pro-brexit. But in Guardian-land they are all complaining about him having a pro-Brexit stance as the majority of Left activists seem to be pro-remain whereas the hardcore of the party they support is anti-EU right back to the days of Tony Benn. 

[Barrykearley]

Come the revolution 

[Chillidoggy]

I see Corbyn is now saying he didn't realise the level of student debt was so high. What a load of bullshit, he knew all along, and yet still dangled wiping it out as a carrot in the Labour manifesto.

[Barrykearley]

Yep he's shit his nest on that one now hasn't he.

i wonder what pack of lies, free unicorns for all fantasy promises will come out next time round.

[silverfrost]

I think they should use a black arm band system,  i.e after the general elections all the bull shxxte they have said to try and win favour for votes, when found out to be complete bull, like the " did not know student debt was so hi sort of thing "   A black armband should be issued,  then on the next general election themselves or who ever is representing that party at the time should have to wear them.    

So on interviews and public statements it will remind us of what lying bastxxds these people really are and that tthey will say anything to try and bag the votes at the time.  And maybe even red arm bands for been elected and failing to actually implement a policy that they promised the people would happen in their term. 

This is what most heads of parliment would look like if this came into policy 

 

[oilmagnet477]

Anyone going to the Stoning?

[Chillidoggy]

Not if there's any women present, no.

[Kimbers]

He's not the Messiah, He 's a very naughty boy!

[Jacques]

The EC was never meant to be a political entity, never meant to be under the influence of the peoples vote. That is just the transitional period in which it was induced into peoples mind. It was always meant to be a creature that lives off the peoples blood and ressources, without their ability to control it. A state in the state. Purely bureaucratical. And as such there's nothing you as an ordinary member of the population(-s) can do about it. It's a parasitical disease. Look at the way they propose new regulations and Laws. It's less and less power and influence to the voters and local governments. I think that speaks volumes for how ill-conceived the ec really is. A multinational borderless ditatorship, feeding you and me on occasions with a tiny bit of raw meat. Judge the tree by it's fruits.

The same can be said of many, if not most, national governments.

As it's been said: ruling a country (here the ec) is far too important to let that to the people.

You know, Britain has been surviving many Things since it came into existence, and It'll probably stay for some time to come. But not by it's own power alone, but with the alertness and wholehearted power of the population of the UK.

Kind regards,

Jacques.

[silverfrost]

I love the feeling knowing that when we finally say good bye to the EU,  The thought of all those parasites from not only the UK but also Europe, i.e the reptiles that have jobs on paper but actually do nothing in reality for their wage,   cant wait till the rocks are taken away for good so these reptiles have no where to hide anymore .

[C8RKH]

Jacques - I do believe the main problem we have in the UK is that the population has become a feckless, flabby, moronic and insipid shadow of what it had been in the past. We are lazy, celebrity obsessed and more concerned with material things.

Deep down, our true national spirit is buried and suppressed. However, the one thing that history has taught us is that whenever as a nation we face adversity, our true spirit emerges and we soldier on-wards and forwards.  We need something to rally against to be at our best. We need to be the underdogs with no chance.  Then, and only then, will we be at our most productive, inventive and influential. Brexit could just be the thing to bring it out again when the EU states decide to punish us (and there are many groups in the EU who wish to see that happen).  bring it on. And watch us rise.

My personal biggest worry is that we have become too feckless, lazy, and fat to even notice the stirring of spirit. We will see.

The latest is that the EU airlines want a no fly deal with no flights to and from the UK and the EU to allow their own airlines to gain advantage.  Well, that's OK by me as me and several million other Brits will survive without our 2 annual holidays to Spain, France, Portugal or Greece et al. Unlike their hotels that will close by the hundreds and lay off by the thousands workers with little or no chance of any other employment locally.

I do believe "no deal" is bad for everyone. The UK and the EU. i do hope both sides can truly come to the table prepared to do a deal.  But I do believe the EU's position of you need to agree people rights and divorce bill before trade is harmful.  I mean, how can we assess if we can afford the divorce bill if we have no idea what our income through trade might be?  I think this is a nasty political stunt from the EU designed to cause a rift and delays. Everything should be on the table to ensure the best deal for all.

[Andyww]

I still think this could all be resolved very easily if the EU wanted to.

They could propose leaving free movement of LABOUR in place (which was the original concept anyway), with no benefits of any kind payable to anyone unless they have achieved UK nationality, and leave free trade intact. So EU citizens are treated exactly the same as any other immigrants with the exception that they are issued with work permits.

I believe the majority of British people would accept this.

The problem is, both sides are talking about the Norway model, Switzerland model or this or that but what is the problem with having a new UK model? We are a much bigger economy and we can have our customized arrangements.

[PaulCP]

Anybody pick up on the journalist question yesterday in the press conference that Barnier dodged.

After his usual moaning about the UK proposals lacking clarity and not making "sufficient progress" he was asked to clarify what "sufficient progress" meant. His answer was to state that sufficient progress is not being made. I guess he didn't want to say "it's when the UK bend over and accept everything that we want"

on the question re European court of Justice being involved in future matters, for christs sake May, just take the European approach of agreeing to everything then ignoring it afterwards. It's worked for the French, Spanish, Italians etc for years.

Probably time for the UK to refuse to go to future meetings until the other side show a willingness to negotiate!

[Chillidoggy]

They'll be as intransigent as possible with any negotiations for fear of others seeing us as having an easy way out of the bloc.

[Andyww]

Also Barnier keeps saying that he is waiting for the UK to tell the EU how much we want to pay them. Surely the answer to that is nothing? If you are in a restaurant the waiter doesnt hang around waiting for you to tell him how much you are going to pay.

[C8RKH]

I actually thonk