Pro Alloy V8 Intercooler kits group buy...

[mike_sekinger]

I never received anything from Alex after his bombshell message.

[cweeden]

I need to call Alex, there are still activities going on which suggest this isn't dead yet. 

[Escape]

1 hour ago, mike_sekinger said:

I never received anything from Alex after his bombshell message.

I was afraid that would happen, and the parts that were sent to Alex/ Pro Alloy would be lost... Which is why I explicitly asked the question. To which Alex replied he would send back the parts and reimburse shipping.

On 27/03/2022 at 22:29, ProAlloy-Alex said:

Of course I will reimburse delivery and send back the OE ducting of course.

Another promise broken it seems. Surely there must be legal action that can be taken? As I understand it the compressor ducts are not that easy to find and it's hard to run a V8 without them!

Filip

[mike_sekinger]

I just received an email from Alex.   He has been ill but is back at work now and is preparing to ship the ducts back.

I will suggest that he returns the ducts to the respective kit owners.

More to follow....

[MD355]

@mike_sekinger I have a theoretical question : Let's say the chargecooler kit is built and installed... Would the chargecooler radiator at the front interfere with the operation of the engine radiator ? Would the chargecooler radiator block / reduce the air cooling area of the regular radiator ? Thanks !!

[mike_sekinger]

@MD355  If your main coolant radiator is free of debris and in good operating condition, then in practice you will not notice any difference.  Of course there is a theoretical increase in the temperature of the air that is reaching the main coolant radiator, but this is not going to bring your main coolant radiator anywhere near the point where it cannot cope.   Think of how the main coolant radiator is able to keep the main coolant under control in different ambiant temperatures.   On the very hottest of days in Summer, you will notice that you coolant fans may be triggered more often, but the radiator is still able to contol the temperature.

In addition, remember that a chargecooled engine will generally place less stress on the engine coolant system anyway(main coolant and oil).

[mike_sekinger]

Did anyone who was involved in the Group Buy receive their compressor ducts back from ProAlloy?

I`ve had several emails over the last month from Alex saying that the compressor ducts have been sent, but no tracking info can be provided.   I was just curious if anyone else got anything back?

[Bibs]

I'd be taking this to someone more senior and if there's no luck with them it sounds like it may have to go legal. 

Very poor show in every aspect from ProAlloy. Really not what's expected from a company who previously had a very strong reputation. 

[mike_sekinger]

This morning, I received the return shipment of my compressor ducts from ProAlloy.

I hope that the other participants also received their hardware.

[Escape]

Good news Mike, finally!

I recall you had sent over multiple sets, including mine, I assume you received all of them back?

[mike_sekinger]

Hi Filip,

No, I only received a single set.  Alex explained that he would be returning the ducts to the respective planned recipients.  It`s all a bit of a shit-show to be honest.

You should email Alex directly at alexoates@proalloy.co.uk

[Mightymetro]

I’ll email Alex and ask, nothing back here yet

[Escape]

On Tuesday I sent an email to Alex and today I got a reply confirming he would ship my ducts back to me. Fingers crossed but I'm hopeful again.

[Mightymetro]

I’ve emailed Alex but heard nothing back and haven’t received any ducts yet.  I’ll call next week and see what’s going on.  Shocking way of running a business.

[mike_sekinger]

Although not an excuse, I beleive that Alex is struggling with some health issues.   Just for info.

[MD355]

@mike_sekinger Just curious, I was reading the Esprit WSM and at page 1414/1899 it is explaining the position of the Inlet Air Temperature (IAT) sensor on the Esprit V8 , which from my understanding is on the air duct coming from the turbo that leads to the intake manifold. Therefore, lets say a Chargecooler system was installed, would this sensor take the before or after temperature ?

My guess is the after, as the before is not relevant right ? Thanks

[mike_sekinger]

The IAT sensor position would need to be changed to consider the inlet temperature after the intercooler.   If the IAT sensor is positioned before the intercooling, then the ECU would based the fuelling enrichment and ignition timing on the hot inlet temperature.

[MD355]

@mike_sekinger While we are on the subject, lets say a chargecooler kit is installed... What do you estimate would be the temperature of the compressed air from the turbos before the chargercooler, and what would be the air temperature after leaving the chargecooler entering the intake manifold ? (in normal ambient conditions)

Also in performance terms, if lets say the ambient air is cool and the engine is working normally it would produce 350 bhp... When the air warms up and the ECU lowers turbo pressure, retards timing and injects more fuel to cool down, what would be the power produced, lets say 290 bhp ?

As I have little experience with turbo cars and chargecoolers, I am trying to understand.. Thanks 

[mike_sekinger]

You can read up about typical intercooler efficiency, but typically air-to-air is considered less efficient than water-to-air.   A decent well sized water-to-air system can result in 85-90% efficiency.

This means that if your turbo has compressed the air to a temperature of 70degC, then your intercooler can lower that by 85-90%.  Important to understand is that your intercooler obviously cannot lower the temperature below ambient.   Drag cars can manage that by adding something colder into the equasion (e.g Ice or another gas), but for road you are safe with that constraint.

In practical terms for you living in a hot climate - with decen intecooling, you would expect your inlet temparature to be within 20degC of ambient.

Power-wise, I don`t have actual figures but would imagine that in hot conditions where the inlet temperatures of a non-intercooled engine are constraintly high, power could be down by 10% or more.

 

[Escape]

To add to the above, I run my Turbo SE without the engine cover and have a habit of feeling the chargecooler when getting something from the trunk after a run. It always feels cool and when I log the data with Espritmon the readings confirm the intake temperature is 5 tot 10 deg above ambient. That is on a normal, spirited run but not pushing the limits.

As a very rough estimate, using the ideal gas laws, every 3 deg increase in inlet temperature will decrease volumetric efficiency by 1%. Which corresponds pretty well with Mike's figures above, plus 30/40 deg and minus 10% bhp.

[MD355]

Reading all of the above, I am starting to understand the importance of having a Chargecooler system on an Esprit V8. 

It is a pity the Pro Alloy Chargecooler project didn't move on, since it would have been ideal as it fits in the currect engine bay of the Esprit with no need to sacrifice the luggage space.

Any chance somebody could share with us the AutoCAD drawings of the chargecoolers, so I could try to find somebody in my country that can make them ?

A list of components such as electric fluid pump, hose diameters, chargecooler fluid radiator specs, etc would be helpful too, so we could try to replicate the system.

Does the chargecooler system use distilled water or coolant fluid or something else ?

Thanks !!

 

 

[mike_sekinger]

I don`t think that ProAlloy will provide the CAD data, but perhaps @cweeden is making some "behind the scenes" progress with them?

You can use the same coolant as used for your engine, it is just held in a separate fluid circuit.

[Escape]

12 hours ago, mike_sekinger said:

I don`t think that ProAlloy will provide the CAD data, but perhaps @cweeden is making some "behind the scenes" progress with them?

They said they would provide what they had, but they said so much in this thread...

Right now I'll be happy if I ever get my compressor ducts back! As far as I know Mike is the only one who got them back. 😞

[TBD]

On 22/10/2022 at 08:39, Escape said:

They said they would provide what they had, but they said so much in this thread...

Right now I'll be happy if I ever get my compressor ducts back! As far as I know Mike is the only one who got them back. 😞

I understood them as saying they actually didn't have the CAD drawings. Otherwise there yould have been no reason for them to not build the kit.

If starting from scratch I would look to see which parts could be made of (high temperature) plastic and then have these 3d printed (by a professional service). and look into the circular core intercoolers. 

[LotusFella]

On 22/10/2022 at 07:39, Escape said:

They said they would provide what they had, but they said so much in this thread...

Right now I'll be happy if I ever get my compressor ducts back! As far as I know Mike is the only one who got them back. 😞

If it helps at all, I live quite close to Pro Alloy and could collect and get them shipped back to you.  Equally anyone else who is awaiting returns I could for them too, assuming the parts are not enormous.

 

Cheers

chris