Lotus Type 131 - The Rumour Mill

[tim_marra]

7 minutes ago, Sotirios said:

it will most likely look like a mini evija....that side profile under green wraps looks promising.....hopefully the back end looks good though because that picture someone posted on page 1 of the white baby evija looked shocking from rear.

I suspect the artists crack pipe was glowing brightly while he drew that monstrosity. Don't worry.

[Sotirios]

On 07/05/2021 at 21:50, Pugwash said:

Are those not the same car but with camera compression going on?  Notwithstanding what is under that green cover, here is a picture I took of the Evija at Lotus Silverstone.  The image of the one outside the building above looks a little stretched in comparison.  But I am not David Bailey!
 

Forgot to mention that I have put my name on the list for Emira.  Looking forward to FOS.

Was this evija painted in liquid pearl yellow?? Im a little biased towards the colour....looks very similar

[Bibs]

Solaris Yellow. More here - https://www.thelotusforums.com/latest-news/lotus-cars-news/pics-in-pictures-the-lotus-evija-type-130/

[Pugwash]

That’s it.

[C8RKH]

To be honest that is one bloody stupendously looking rear. Just looks like $2m to me!

[tim_marra]

The Evija and in that Solaris Yellow does look incredible in the flesh. I travelled about 150 for a viewing at Parks. It was worth every minute of the journey. Superb car.

[brightoncorgi]

1 hour ago, Pugwash said:

That’s it.

If that was the Emira, they couldn't build enough

[findinfo]

So on the issue of DCT being available only for non V6 version.

I am sure once Emira is released, Lotus will probably saying

something along the line of  their automatic works like DCT or better.

Like how ZF 8 speed in different vehicles were reviewed as being

just as good as DCT in performance.

When you read such statements or reviews, do you ever find yourself

asking, "if that's the case, why are companies making mid engine cars

not using latest automatic gearboxes, 8 speed or like 10 speed ones

found in Camaro, Mustang or Lexus LC?" Can you imagine say

Ferrari, Lamborghini and Porsche using automatic gearbox on their

cars or flagships?

And about DCT from JUBU; if their DCT actually be swapped into

Emira with minimum modification, would that mean that Emira is

heavily revised Evora with exterior changes, like sort of intensive facelift?

 

[C8RKH]

11 minutes ago, findinfo said:

I am sure once Emira is released, Lotus will probably saying

something along the line of  their automatic works like DCT or better.

Now why would they say that? I'm not sure I have seen Lotus say anything about the current IPS being better than a DCT? So what makes you say that then? 

12 minutes ago, findinfo said:

why are companies making mid engine cars

not using latest automatic gearboxes, 8 speed or like 10 speed ones

Er, possibly because of cost? Or maybe because of access to an appropriate DCT that is ready and waiting to mate with the Toyota engine maybe?

14 minutes ago, findinfo said:

Can you imagine say

Ferrari, Lamborghini and Porsche using automatic gearbox on their

cars or flagships?

Nope. But then their "flagships" are what, £500k? £700k?  £900K? Whweas Lotus will be what, £120k?  Hmmmm, bit of a price differential there.

15 minutes ago, findinfo said:

And about DCT from JUBU; if their DCT actually be swapped into

Emira with minimum modification, would that mean that Emira is

heavily revised Evora with exterior changes, like sort of intensive facelift?

That's a big "If".  

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

There’s no pleasing some people. You’ll be able to buy an Emira with a manual, an automatic, or a DCT gearbox. What else do you want? DAF Variomatic?

[scotty435]

At the tender age of 60 the last thing I should be wanting is for time to go fast but the July 6th can not come fast enough. Come  on it’s getting a bit tiresome now all this DCT, Auto, targa top, 4pot, V6. It’s got to be better than  Porsche Cockster, 2 seats 4 seats the list goes on and on. It’s all speculation and brings lots of negativity out of some people. Let’s keep the faith and hope Lotus knock it out of the park.

[Frickin_idiot]

Spot on fella. 

[findinfo]

1 hour ago, C8RKH said:

Now why would they say that? I'm not sure I have seen Lotus say anything about the current IPS being better than a DCT? So what makes you say that then? 

Er, possibly because of cost? Or maybe because of access to an appropriate DCT that is ready and waiting to mate with the Toyota engine maybe?

Nope. But then their "flagships" are what, £500k? £700k?  £900K? Whweas Lotus will be what, £120k?  Hmmmm, bit of a price differential there.

That's a big "If".  

Of course, Lotus hasn't said it regarding IPS, but I think with Emira, it being last combustion engined vehicle, keeping automatic with V6 will likely bring out the comment "only if it had DCT" comments from reviews even more.

Like you said, the cost must have been an issue, but with Emira, they could have looked at more options right? And with it being last combustion enigined vehicle, they could have invested more in those areas. Maybe they could have went other way around; offer automatic on 4 pot and dct for v6 and if Toyota

v6 makes it difficult, source the engine from somewhere else.

With respect to JUBU, it was just a thought. But if that's the case, maybe Lotus not offering DCT might not be an issue.

 

 

[Barrykearley]

9 hours ago, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

There’s no pleasing some people. You’ll be able to buy an Emira with a manual, an automatic, or a DCT gearbox. What else do you want? DAF Variomatic?

Will there be a blue belt option on the Variomatic?

[C8RKH]

10 hours ago, findinfo said:

Of course, Lotus hasn't said it regarding IPS, but I think with Emira, it being last combustion engined vehicle, keeping automatic with V6 will likely bring out the comment "only if it had DCT" comments from reviews even more.

Like you said, the cost must have been an issue, but with Emira, they could have looked at more options right? And with it being last combustion enigined vehicle, they could have invested more in those areas. Maybe they could have went other way around; offer automatic on 4 pot and dct for v6 and if Toyota

v6 makes it difficult, source the engine from somewhere else.

With respect to JUBU, it was just a thought. But if that's the case, maybe Lotus not offering DCT might not be an issue.

 

 

Sorry but your two posts just do not make sense and not really sure what points you're trying to make. Any idea how much effort and work goes into swapping out an engine in a design? The testing (crash and road), the ECU and controls etc.  It's a huge task to do.

I'm just confused to be honest.

[Likuid]

3 hours ago, C8RKH said:

It's a huge task to do.

I agree, but I think some people were hoping, this being Lotus' last ICE, it would be something newer with more investment put into it. From the sounds of it, this wasn't the case, at least when it comes to the power train since it sounds like their is little to no change to the engine and transmission. Obviously you are being a bit more pragmatic, but I think other Lotus fans were hoping for something more. I have a feeling Geely didn't want a lot of their investment going into an ICE car at all, so this is probably more of a Lotus project using whatever resources they can to make it happen.

[C8RKH]

35 minutes ago, Likuid said:

this is probably more of a Lotus project using whatever resources they can to make it happen.

And this is lovely to hear if it is true, as from what I can see this is Lotus at its absolute best. I think Lotus has consistently worked some absolute magic with not a lot over the years, and so your comment has actually excited me more than just about every other one!

I think Lotus core strength has been the passion, ingenuity, resourcefulness and agility of its people who have over delivered on an always tight budget.

 

[TomE]

1 hour ago, C8RKH said:

I think Lotus core strength has been the passion, ingenuity, resourcefulness and agility of its people who have over delivered on an always tight budget.

 

This is absolutely key and why I'm so excited about the Emira.  If Lotus could produce an award-winning drivers car (the Evora) with limited investment and few partners, what can they achieve with Geely's investment and door-opening and a new production facility?  People are consistently amazed at how much Lotus have unleashed from "what, that's the engine from the Camry?" and the brilliance of the ride and handling.

If they've chosen to use the Toyota V6 then it will have been after considering wider options now available because of Geely.  And if they have got a new (and as Matt Windle said "exciting") engine partner for the 4 cyl DCT I suspect that's going to be very interesting rather than a bit of a compromise.

Knowing the track record and expertise of several of the Lotus team I think it's going to be a stunning looking and stunning driving car.  The issue will be can they sell it at the volumes they need.  As we've already seen, you can have several brilliant and award-winning cars but not sell as many as you wanted to.

[C8RKH]

@TomE - I've just watched the Lotus Guru video as recommended by @JAWS.

One thing feels certain to me, and that is that the top end V6 Emira will be around 450/460bhp. This output was proven in the 311 and the engine seems to be bullet proof at this level with no further mods needed.  So, as I am expecting the Emira to be lighter than an Evora this could be quite a machine if my guessing is correct! Around 3.5s to 62mph and must get to almost 200mph top speed.  Again, I am just guessing, putting 2 + 3 together to get 87! However, if I am right, wow!

[Likuid]

2 hours ago, C8RKH said:

And this is lovely to hear if it is true, as from what I can see this is Lotus at its absolute best. I think Lotus has consistently worked some absolute magic with not a lot over the years, and so your comment has actually excited me more than just about every other one!

I think Lotus core strength has been the passion, ingenuity, resourcefulness and agility of its people who have over delivered on an always tight budget.

 

I kind of agree, but would be nice to see what Lotus could do keeping that passion along with some significant investment. I assume Lotus' plan is to sell cars to new customers, not just impress people on the Lotus forum. Whindle said they are looking to go from 1k cars a year to 5k - 10k. Now maybe he doesn't expect that just from the Emira, but honestly I would be shocked (based on what we have heard so far) the Emira will sell that well. Lotus' biggest issue is their dealership network. To get a better dealership network you need cars that sell. They are replacing 3 models with 1 model. To get people interested in your cars where they may need to drive 2 to 3 hours to a dealer you got to get their attention. So far nothing (besides possibly the looks) sounds overly exciting and I current own a 400 and owned 2 Lotus before that. Hopefully the Emira can do this, but I have my doubts as it stands now. I don't doubt the Emira will be a good, maybe even great car. However, IMO, so was the Evora and that was a commercial failure, even by Lotus' standards.

Quote

One thing feels certain to me, and that is that the top end V6 Emira will be around 450/460bhp. This output was proven in the 311 and the engine seems to be bullet proof at this level with no further mods needed.  So, as I am expecting the Emira to be lighter than an Evora this could be quite a machine if my guessing is correct! Around 3.5s to 62mph and must get to almost 200mph top speed.  Again, I am just guessing, putting 2 + 3 together to get 87! However, if I am right, wow!

All the modern Toyota based Lotus have grown in power over their life. Evora gained about 50% more power right? Not saying the Emira needs to gain that much, but if the Emira is using the same V6 as the 311/Evora/Exige V6 and launched with 450HP+ where will its room to grow (power-wise) be? Maybe Lotus has unlocked more potential from the V6. That would be great.

[C8RKH]

I never said 450HP was the only launch value, I said there would be a "TOP END" model at 450/460hp. So in new terminology the Emira V6R?

I expect at launch we will see a "base power" V6 of 410, a mid at 430 and a TOP END at 450/460.  Why? Because the engines are available easily at those levels, practically off the shelf, with all development mapping etc all done.

There is no reason why we could not see that grow to 500 - 530HP over time, but, my understanding is that after 460HP, the current upper limit proven, you need to start changing internals and reinforcing stuff. I doubt Toyota would warranty the engine at 500HP+ so Lotus would need to be sure the strengthening undertaken was robust and did not affect the proven engine relaibility they have.

 

[brightoncorgi]

Do you think the Emira will have a 10 year life cycle?

[TomE]

Only 8 years.  Production starts in early 2022 and all new sales of petrol-engined cars have to stop in 2030.  Lotus have said it's the last ICE Lotus, which I take to mean they won't do a hybrid or EV version of it and they will launch new non-ICE cars instead.

[Likuid]

We'll see if that deadline actually happens. I have a feeling it will eventually get pushed back, but point still stands. For now its what we know. To my knowledge U.S. doesn't have such a deadline (yet), but I don't see Lotus selling a U.S.-only car unless it was very successful in U.S.

[mdavies]

7 hours ago, Likuid said:

I agree, but I think some people were hoping, this being Lotus' last ICE, it would be something newer with more investment put into it. From the sounds of it, this wasn't the case, at least when it comes to the power train since it sounds like their is little to no change to the engine and transmission.

Hear, hear!

Doubtless much market research went into the overall infrastructure of the Emira to aim at the admittedly essential target of getting more buyers from a wider, less committed range of people. Hence “easier to access, better equipped etc. etc.” No argument there, but are those the unique features that will make new prospects fall for the special, unequalled, memorable experience that is driving a Lotus? Surely not!

My three headings for assessing a sports car are appearance, lap times and the driving experience. And the greatest of these, by miles, is the last.  That experience is not a one-way street though, something the car gives you. No, it’s an interactive process, a multifaceted mix of what you put into the driving and how the car's responses feed back to you.  The more put in, the more got out.

Many test drivers and potential new long term owners will surely not start at the £90K plus level of the 6 cylinder version but the 4 cylinder at £55K.  What will be the hook that will embrace them?  The appearance? So it’s a car for the posers?  The lap timers? So it’s a car for the track rats?  No, of course, it has to be the driving experience, always Lotus’s magic.

I said “the more put in, the more got out”.  I should have said “the more the driver can put in, the more they get out.” Given that, is it not true that three pedals and a gear stick are hugely important components? To feel the stick slot home from one gear to another, matching the revs to the gear change, blipping the throttle just right for downshifts - hearing the bark of the engine, heel and toeing to do that under braking. Timing everything according to your line around a bend.

So what will these new test drivers experience? None of those above anyway. Never mind, they can slip in and out easily, play with the infotainment, relax with the help of the driver aids. Oh, and turn the steering wheel and press the brake pedal.

The less you can put in, the less you get out.

And yes, I’m very disappointed.

Edited May 12, 2021 by mdavies