Lotus Type 131 - The Rumour Mill

[Bibs]

6 hours ago, chipp said:

This would void any Toyota warranty.

Lotus don't get any kind of warranty on the engines from Toyota. 

[Likuid]

1 hour ago, TomE said:

Nope, I’ve not missed the point.  
 

He said “

Do we even know if adding a super charger to the engine doesn't void any warranty? ”

Adding a supercharger doesn’t void the warranty.  Toyota have their own supercharged version too. 

Apparently Lotus does not receive any warranty on their Toyota engines according to @Bibs. This really isn't a shock either. Why would Toyota bother giving a warranty on an engine that was fiddled with? I know the internals really weren't, but they eventually strapped a liquid cooled Edelbrock supercharger on it. Its really not in Toyota's interest to warranty the engines they send Lotus. In fact they was probably part of the deal of Toyota allowing Lotus to use the engines.

So Lotus could (in theory) swap out internals and take it beyond the 460HP threshold mentioned before if needed without impacting any Toyota warranty.

[Evotion]

In which case, do WE really want or need the Emira engine to be near 500HP but on the edge of reliability?

Is 450P or 430HP really so bad, even thought the car is heavier?

The other petrolheads out there might well be swayed by the HP figures, I get that, but if the car is beautiful, drives superbly and is comfy (and you are not going to track it a lot) then that is definitely good enough for  me.

[Bibs]

10 hours ago, Likuid said:

So Lotus could (in theory) swap out internals and take it beyond the 460HP threshold mentioned before if needed without impacting any Toyota warranty.

 

11 hours ago, Bibs said:

Lotus don't get any kind of warranty on the engines from Toyota. 

 

[ramjet]

4 hours ago, Evotion said:

Is 450P or 430HP really so bad, even thought the car is heavier?

Is it heavier or are you surmising that?

[NedaSay]

Many here are assuming Lotus is sticking to the GR-FE ... Some  are assuming that the car is heavier than the outgoing car because of added creature comfort...  if Emira take a lot from the porosity concept of Evija and the Elemental platform is the stepforward Lotus has made it to be... Some maybe in for a surprise...

[Likuid]

6 hours ago, Evotion said:

In which case, do WE really want or need the Emira engine to be near 500HP but on the edge of reliability?

Is 450P or 430HP really so bad, even thought the car is heavier?

The other petrolheads out there might well be swayed by the HP figures, I get that, but if the car is beautiful, drives superbly and is comfy (and you are not going to track it a lot) then that is definitely good enough for  me.

Does the Emira need 500HP to be a good car? No. However many of us here would agree the Evora was a good car and it sold poorly. While there are several factors for this, a 416HP $110k (USD) car is kind of a hard pill for some to swallow when you add the lack of dealerships, reliability concerns, brand recognition, etc.

Personally I don't think a more modern looking 2-seater Evora with some better tech is enough to sell 3x or 4x the cars. I think Lotus needs to make a splash with the Emira, not a ripple, to get people's attention. When a magazine pits the Emira vs. a Cayman we need to see results that not only beat the Cayman, but beat it convincingly where there is no doubt what car is better. Make Joe-Porsche consider driving a 2 hours to the closest Lotus dealer to test drive the Emira.

Do I think this will solve all of Lotus's issues? No, this is something that will take years to fix. However, I do know if Lotus sells more cars, then there will be more dealerships popping up, with more dealerships they will sell more cars.

52 minutes ago, NedaSay said:

Many here are assuming Lotus is sticking to the GR-FE ... Some  are assuming that the car is heavier than the outgoing car because of added creature comfort...  if Emira take a lot from the porosity concept of Evija and the Elemental platform is the stepforward Lotus has made it to be... Some maybe in for a surprise...

I hope you are right. I am sure it is frustrating for some people on this forum who are in the know, but are bound by NDA, watching us talking about something we really don't know much about. While I have talked about how what I have heard so far has not got me that excited for the Emira, I also will freely admit that the information we have received may be wrong or misleading. Still fun to talk about. I hope I am wrong and the Emira knocks my socks off.

[Evotion]

4 hours ago, ramjet said:

Is it heavier or are you surmising that?

AH, I was thinking of the Exige as that is the one I drove a few weeks back after I placed the deposits.

I was told the car was placing somewhere between the Exige and Evora. If so, then it might well be lighter or similar to the Evora despite perhaps having more levels of comfort if all the options are ticked.

I expect my 4-cyl, on which I will delete everything, will definitely be between the two previous models.

 

Of course, most of what we talk about is reading between the lines of what have been officially mentioned as Likuid said. We might be well out.

I don't to fall into the trap of hoping it is a super light, 500HP bargain supercar.

I just want that whole package to feel right around me and I will be easily pleased.

[mdavies]

A subject I know near nothing about – be warned!

I’ve read some good-sounding marketing ideas in previous posts, of course including really attractive finance packages, but a key aspect surely is for the Emira to make a news-worthy splash. An impact beyond excellent performance in magazine-tests. Hopefully even something to get mentions beyond the motoring columns of the mainstream press.

The Emira’s optioned initial price range of say £60K to £90K is not one where, for most people, “overheads” and running costs, on top of finance payments, do not matter much. (E.g. buyers of new McLarens and Ferraris.) Beyond attractive finance, the largest item will likely be the insurance cost, even for “good risks”.

Porsche, Jaguar, and probably others such, offer insurance packages, branded ”their own”, backed by the usual big outfits. Suppose Lotus did the same, but with a deal with the insurer that, after a claim-free first year, the second year’s premium would be discounted by 50% of that of the first year’s;  and so on for subsequent years. Claim-free drivers would thus get half-price insurance and the insurer 50% of premiums without any claim costs. It would cost Lotus something to the insurer, as does cheap financing, but news-worthy?  Obviously have to be limits on amounts and duration.

Lotus to the market: “Are you a good driver? We’ll be paying you to prove it!”

Buyer to himself: “Of course I’ll be claim-free – a skilled careful driver like me!”

Buyer to Significant Other: “And do you know, sweetheart, that we’ll only be paying XX on the financing, and the insurance will be only half what the Porsche was!”  We save money!

[Cypriot]

I am surprised no one has mentioned the interior shot that was posted by Lotus PR on twitter a few days ago.  It shows the Emira steering wheel and the digital display which does give a few titbits away.  Firstly, there will be a lot of Volvo elements including the driving assistance like radar cruise control (awesome).  Secondly, there will be an infotainment system based off a volvo system as the steering wheel buttons are from a volvo.  Thirdly, there will be multiple drive modes.

The fact that the interior will be brought up to current market standards, and also things like radar cruise control will be offered give me great hopes that the Emira will actually be a lotus one can buy without having to excuse it.

There has been various post about power needing to go to 500bhp, but that simply isnt needed.  500bhp is porsche GT3 territory.  450bhp will compete very well against a carrera S for example, as long as they get the weight correct so the performance is there.

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

There are loads of posts on here about the steering wheel teaser image.

[Bravo73]

2 hours ago, Cypriot said:

I am surprised no one has mentioned the interior shot that was posted by Lotus PR on twitter a few days ago.

It has been discussed, at length, in the other main Emira thread:

 

[NedaSay]

Ok. What many seem to forget is that if Emira is replacing all current cars it has been benchmarked against Boxster and 911. Cayman, because in 4 cylinder guise, it is the most logical competitor, and 911 because as opposed to Cayman, Lotus has always set its cars free to go giant hunting ; just like the Exige 430 Cup was nibbling the heels of any GT3, while the Cayman GT4 was reined in by the higher ups at Weissach,  Emira will be set to hunt the 911 GT3 in top spec, not that Emira will automatically need to get 500bhp to do it. On that question, does Emira need more than 500bh?. Now, do some of us want it to? Yes. Are they right to want it? Well, we always want more don't we! But will the car need it, if it weighs under 1350kg in top spec, and makes the entire competition look ridiculous of the line and in the curves. Once again, Emira is set to be Emira and not an Esprit successor.  I for one just want Emira the best car it can be, I've seen one image - just the one - the car is a freakin looker, I'm not saying everybody will like it, but if you fell for Evija you may as well have your checkbook ready. And the dealers at least here are ready.

When it comes to the interior, it will surprise some, but it is not all Volvo or it won't feel all Volvo, it is going to be hightech à la Volvo yes, and the "hightechery" of it all serves one big purpose, containing weight. Yes, it will have many more CPUs and GPUs than an Evora ever had, but the packaging of the car is on the the clever side of motorsport engineering. Of course some modules are always going to be heavy no matter what, electric seats can only get that light, but if you can do without them save the weight.

Lotus is very unlikely going to have tinkered with the internal of the Toyota engine because there's no need to...  And from what I gathered the 4cyl will have the same kind of treatment, Lotus have played with induction and exhaust but no internals were touched, because it doesn't make sense to get the engine delivered only to open and then close them of the chain and risk having defects.

By the way, the recent unveil of the new retail strategy was no coincidence, it is super versatile and scaleable and Lotus will make full use of the  resources at their disposal, but instead of thinking about adding dealers, it appears the strategy is more  evolutive, Lotus will add dealers yes, but the new showrooms will not automatically be on the dealers lot...

[brightoncorgi]

19 hours ago, Cypriot said:

I am surprised no one has mentioned the interior shot that was posted by Lotus PR on twitter a few days ago.  It shows the Emira steering wheel and the digital display which does give a few titbits away.  Firstly, there will be a lot of Volvo elements including the driving assistance like radar cruise control (awesome).  Secondly, there will be an infotainment system based off a volvo system as the steering wheel buttons are from a volvo.  Thirdly, there will be multiple drive modes.

I love the Volvo running gear in our XC60.  We are going to order a V60 in a month or so to replace the XC60.

The digital gauges and cluster are great in the Volvo, I hope they use the same tech.  Everything is vivid with all sorts of telemetry.  The only knock I would give the Volvo system is that it's too complicated.  Too many menus and sub menu's for me.

[C8RKH]

On 11/06/2021 at 22:27, TomE said:

Adding a supercharger doesn’t void the warranty.

So many people say stuff on the internet with authority when they know nowt lol.....

 

Me included 

[C8RKH]

22 hours ago, Cypriot said:

radar cruise control (awesome)

Might be for you, but I thought it was utter shite on my Volvo S90 - you had to pull out so early on the motorway/dual carriageway or the car would just slow down to match the speed of the one on the lane you were in.

I really, really, do not understand why people are salivating over something like this on a brand new car "for the driver!"  If you want the car to do it all for you then just wait for the autonomous vehicle that will be around the corner surely?

[TomE]

2 hours ago, C8RKH said:

So many people say stuff on the internet with authority when they know nowt lol.....

 

Me included 

It doesn’t.  The warranty is from Lotus not Toyota.  Toyota have a supercharged version too and that has a warranty as well 🤷‍♂️

[C8RKH]

But you and I both know he was referring to the potential warranty from Toyota to Lotus. 

Otherwise you comment makes no sense as it would be "would Lotus putting a supercharger on the Toyota engine void the Lotus warranty" would it not?

It adds nothing to the conversation to talk about Toyota warrantying a Toyota engine with a supercharger in a Toyota - it ain't a bloody Lotus or a Lotus product.

I'm happy to admit I'm wrong, I'll leave you to know you were right lol....

[Cypriot]

2 hours ago, C8RKH said:

Might be for you, but I thought it was utter shite on my Volvo S90 - you had to pull out so early on the motorway/dual carriageway or the car would just slow down to match the speed of the one on the lane you were in.

I really, really, do not understand why people are salivating over something like this on a brand new car "for the driver!"  If you want the car to do it all for you then just wait for the autonomous vehicle that will be around the corner surely?

It must be fun living in a black and white world with no grey!

If you think the volvo radar cruise control was shite then you dont know how to use it - read the manual with your specsavers glasses on.

As for the whole "if you want the car to do it all for you" comment, then go and buy a caterham.  For Lotus to succeed, they cannot make the car you want.  You are a tiny minority.  The vast majority of customers that Lotus need want a better interior and want a few creature comforts, and I am not talking about taking anything away from a car being a drivers car before you start saying go and buy an S-class or some such rubbish.  There is a very big difference between wanting simple things that facilitate using the car on long trips or as a daily driver such as cup holders, radar cruise control, a fully functioning integrated infotainment etc and wanting an autonomous car.

[C8RKH]

22 minutes ago, Cypriot said:

It must be fun living in a black and white world with no grey!

If you think the volvo radar cruise control was shite then you dont know how to use it - read the manual with your specsavers glasses on.

Actually, I did know how to use it and did RTFM, as it's downloaded into the car and accessible via a search from the touchscreen!  Do you take me for a numpty!

I just did not like it. I preferred to be IN CONTROL of the vehicle at all times. I actually like driving and don't believe that progress is always defined by "automation".

Creature comforts I can get, but RADAR controlled cruise is not WHAT I WOULD WANT in a drivers car. If you do, then fair enough, but I would hardly call it "a simple thing". It's actually horrendously complex! 

 

[Likuid]

On 12/06/2021 at 15:45, Cypriot said:

There has been various post about power needing to go to 500bhp, but that simply isnt needed.  500bhp is porsche GT3 territory.  450bhp will compete very well against a carrera S for example, as long as they get the weight correct so the performance is there.

Lotus only has 1 model of ICE car. That model should compete with a wider range IMO.

Also, people aren't saying it needs to be 500HP for it to be a good car. Some people (including myself) are saying due to the many issues Lotus has selling cars that they have they need to play the numbers game to get people driving to dealer's and test driving cars. Almost no casual sports car buyer (which is most of them) cares about weight, steering feel, etc. If they did care Lotus would be selling much better than they do. While I think its important that Lotus keep as many things as "Lotus" as they can they also must admit the lower weight/lower power philosophy doesn't work getting the general sportscar consumer driving to dealers for a test drive.

As far as I'm concerned, "hanging with" or "competing well against" just isn't good enough to get people buying the car. Sure, if everything else was equal, but its not, not even close. Lotus is not Porsche. They don't have a bunch of dealers and a brand that almost sells itself. They need to beat the competition and beat them convincingly. Show the world Lotus is back and better than ever. This will help start to get butts in seats, test driving your cars. This is just 1 step of many they need to do to bring the brand back from the brink.

 

Edited June 13, 2021 by Likuid

[Ali tuck]

The Emira certainly has its work cut out- lots of competition mainly from you know who -with the  GT4 and now RS which is certainly due to be a Emira rival at the top end(not that you’ll be able to buy one)so I think the top end cars will need to be up near the 500 bhp mark especially as I think with options they’ll be 100k +_anyway not long now and excited to see the new car which I am sure will be stunning!

[Evotion]

I suspect Lotus might have this covered.

I believe there will different versions of each model but not necessarily from Day 1.

Something like an Emira S, Emira R  and Emira GT and we can choose the general spec that we want which would like include variants on suspension, fittings, power and exhaust.

 

What I do fear is buying an early Emira and then 6 months later they bring out a 'better' version. That would really piss me off.

Have Lotus got any history of that?

[C8RKH]

6 minutes ago, Evotion said:

Something like an Emira S, Emira R  and Emira GT

All of this has been confirmed by Matt Windle in the interviews and Journo pieces = he talked about the model nomenclature. We're now getting to the point where "old stuff" is being regurgitated as "new" or "potential" stuff.

Would it not be better to just wait and see now, given how close the launch at Goodwood will be? (assuming it goes ahead with public attendance).

If we're not careful we'll all be disappointed by something with 8 wheels, 16 gears, 14 engines, enough tech to land a man on the moon, a toilet, and a 2 ton weight given all the "stuff" people want added.

A lot of people getting hot and bothered about "features" and specs and must haves, and what Lotus absolutely has to do to survive, when for many of them (me included by the way) their automotive expertise can be written on the length of a gnats penis. Their product development expertise was from home economics at school when they used icing sugar instead of flour to thicken the gravy for a shepherds pie. And their marketing experience is the sum total of writing 3 used car adverts in Autotrader for family diseasels that they hoped to get £50 for extra than the px quote!

I actually think it's time to just go and put the kettle on, sit back, and wait and see.  I do think we will all be very pleasantly surprised and inspired by the way.

[DaveC72]

22 minutes ago, Evotion said:

What I do fear is buying an early Emira and then 6 months later they bring out a 'better' version. That would really piss me off.

Have Lotus got any history of that?

Yep - (as does pretty much every brand) but seldom after just six months.  Don't think you can avoid it.

Launch editions from Lotus do tend to be pretty good value, so your FOMO by going early should be tempered a little.  I would be surprised if the full range will be upgraded in the first year or so.

 

I know this will bring me ridicule, but has anyone heard anything in terms of the practicalities of the car?

There have been several statements from the folks in Hethel that it will be a more useable proposition.  

This matters to me - a lot.  My Evora is my daily.  It's how I square the circle.  I've chuntered on about this previously.  I need the Emira to at least have a reasonable amount of luggage space... sacrilege, I know. 

Anyone heard/gleaned any info on this?