Coronavirus

[Barrykearley]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/health-59609452
 

politicians all over the world have been going on about compulsory vaccines. But it’s blatantly obvious this does not stop hospital admissions. 
 

I for one am very concerned in the direction we could be heading. It’s not like governments the world over have bad form for mis-use of powers 🙄.

[gregs24]

1 hour ago, Barrykearley said:

Frankly that’s ignoring the point and blaming the public. Exactly what the bbc do and the government is doing - with that logic you are better off simply blaming the Chinese.

This is being allowed to become an all encompassing distraction for the nhs and services for anything other than covid seem to be kicked into the long grass. 

This morning the bbc report again - 60% plus are double vaccinated in hospitals - and most of those are old age apparently. Again how long will it be before those with 5 jabs blame those who’ve only had 4.

Enough is enough - we need to start living before we are dead. Feel free to post average age of death in the uk and average age of covid death in the uk. 

Completely incorrect.

You demonstrate a significant lack of understanding of the epidemiology and how the vaccines work I'm afraid. I have already explained why those in hospital are mostly vaccinated. The fact that the booster confers significant additional protection is also now clear. Not sure why this is a problem for you ? Why does the average age of death matter, unless of course you don't care about older people, whilst understanding that 'average' means that plenty of young people die as well.

Do you not understand that the NHS is bunged up with COVID cases hence the reason other services are struggling ? There are only so many beds and if COVID is occupying thousands of them that is thousands not available for other things. What do you suggest, chucking out the COVID cases to get on with other things ? How would you reduce the number of COVID cases to allow the NHS to function ?

The ONLY people you can blame for the spread are the public - that is how viruses spread. Lockdown demonstrates perfectly what happens when you severely restrict people - the virus stops spreading. If the general public don't take responsibility themselves, someone has to do it for them.

we need to start living before we are dead - which unfortunately cannot be the case for those that are dead. I would suggest 'we need to start taking responsibility before we are dead' - fortunately most do.

[gregs24]

47 minutes ago, Barrykearley said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/health-59609452
 

politicians all over the world have been going on about compulsory vaccines. But it’s blatantly obvious this does not stop hospital admissions. 
 

I for one am very concerned in the direction we could be heading. It’s not like governments the world over have bad form for mis-use of powers 🙄.

It is blatantly obvious that vaccination significantly reduces hospitalisations. It is very easy to find this data:

COVID vaccine effects wane over time but still prevent death and severe illness (manchester.ac.uk)

New data show vaccines reduce severe COVID-19 in older adults - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

COVID-19 vaccines protect against severe illness during Delta | CIDRAP (umn.edu)

Vaccine efficacy, effectiveness and protection (who.int)

 

[gregs24]

6 hours ago, SFO said:

No one with Omnicron has yet to be admitted to hospital 

the UKHSA report that talks about 1 million Omnicron cases by year end and reduction in vaccine effectiveness but notes:

"Whilst there are insufficient data to quantify either vaccine effectiveness or risk of reinfection in the UK exactly,"

"These early estimates should be treated with caution"

So, let's panic first and worry about the facts later

Unfortunately the transmissibility data precedes the hospitalisation and mortality data by about 3 or 4 weeks. We now know that 'omicron' is spreading MUCH faster than 'delta' and will probably overtake it in the UK in 2 weeks or so. This is dramatically more contagious. Until we know the severe illness and death data in a few weeks time what do you do ? If you ignore the spread and wait 3 weeks what happens if it is similar to 'delta' in pathogenicity and you suddenly have 3000 or more a day admissions to hospital - it's all a bit late then ! Keeping a lid on it as much as possible until that data is available is all anybody can do - it really could go either way at this point.

[Barrykearley]

18 minutes ago, gregs24 said:

Do you not understand that the NHS is bunged up with COVID cases hence the reason other services are struggling ?

I will now call utter bullshit on that statement.

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/publications/nhs-hospital-bed-numbers

this shows 141000 hospital uk beds.

from the uk government’s own numbers there are approximately 7400 covid bed places being used.

The ticking time bomb is the difference between those two numbers and the people for whom their treatment is being missed completely - all the while the government will allow others to blame the unvaccinated.

[Neal H]

Two doses didn’t stop me catching the Delta variant and feeling really rough for a couple of weeks. I do believe though that it stopped me becoming seriously unwell and possibly hospitalised. I really cannot understand why some people are so reluctant to get vaccinated.

Booster appointment is booked.

[Barrykearley]

19 minutes ago, gregs24 said:

If the general public don't take responsibility themselves, someone has to do it for them.

Pol pot, Karl Marx, Adolf hitler, Stalin, Hussein, Tito, Jung il, are all damn good examples of why folks shouldn’t just blindly follow the government’s lead and instead challenge it in a democratic manner. Sadly the utter brainwashing of this pandemic has people suggesting governments enforce a needle in an individual’s arm with no consent whatsoever required. Or worse - let’s have a lovely apartheid system where we keep the unvaccinated locked up. We only need to pop back to the mid 1980s to see what our own government did to AIDS individuals whom they sectioned and locked up completely at odds with the law of the day.

[gregs24]

Just now, Barrykearley said:

Pol pot, Karl Marx, Adolf hitler, Stalin, Hussein, Tito, Jung il, are all damn good examples of why folks shouldn’t just blindly follow the government’s lead and instead challenge it in a democratic manner. Sadly the utter brainwashing of this pandemic has people suggesting governments enforce a needle in an individual’s arm with no consent whatsoever required. Or worse - let’s have a lovely apartheid system where we keep the unvaccinated locked up. We only need to pop back to the mid 1980s to see what our own government did to AIDS individuals whom they sectioned and locked up completely at odds with the law of the day.

I suggest you keep your political delusions to yourself - they have no place in disease control.

[Barrykearley]

2 minutes ago, gregs24 said:

they have no place in disease control.

And politics has no place in disease control either frankly. Since currently they wish to remove the individuals democratic choice over their own body.

[gregs24]

8 minutes ago, Barrykearley said:

I will now call utter bullshit on that statement.

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/publications/nhs-hospital-bed-numbers

this shows 141000 hospital uk beds.

from the uk government’s own numbers there are approximately 7400 covid bed places being used.

The ticking time bomb is the difference between those two numbers and the people for whom their treatment is being missed completely - all the while the government will allow others to blame the unvaccinated.

I should go back to the very source you quoted:

NHS hospital bed numbers | The King's Fund (kingsfund.org.uk)

Note: The Covid-19 pandemic is having a significant impact on the way hospitals manage and deliver services, which has had an impact on the availability and use of hospital beds. To illustrate long-term trends in hospital beds in this analysis we use 2019/20 (pre-pandemic) data as the most recent comparator. However, where data is available for 2020/21 we have included this for information and to show the impact of the pandemic.

Statistics » Critical Care Bed Capacity and Urgent Operations Cancelled (england.nhs.uk)

Total hospital beds is not the relevant figure - it is critical care beds which are a much smaller number. In addition having a bed is meaningless if you don't have the critical care staff to run them. There is no point putting a critically ill person with COVID in a geriatric stroke ward for example.

2 minutes ago, Barrykearley said:

And politics has no place in disease control either frankly. Since currently they wish to remove the individuals democratic choice over their own body.

No they want people to take responsibility for their own actions. Choosing not to be vaccinated has an impact on others.

Compulsory vaccination (which is not happening in the UK other than quite correctly in certain professions) is a different discussion. Comparing that to the actions of Hitler and Pol Pot is frankly ludicrous.

[Barrykearley]

3 minutes ago, gregs24 said:

There is no point putting a critically ill person with COVID in a geriatric stroke ward for example.

The issue youve so eloquently highlighted there is the issue. I have several friends whom are consultants working within A&E - these bed places are empty and unstaffed now resulting in folks not being able to access care.

[eeyoreish]

What I don't really understand is why the government seems to be spending so much time and presumably money encouraging the take up of boosters. In my mind (and by the evidence of everyone I know), surely anyone who's had the first 2 jabs is going to make it their business to get the 3rd. 

The real issue around vaccinations is surely encouraging those that didn't bother with/didn't want the first 2 to reconsider their decision or apathy. That's where a little context against 'normal flu' and other potentially fatal conditions might be persuasive if the figures are as bad as they're made out to be and people can see that they are therefore wrongly assuming Covid is nothing to worry about...

[C8RKH]

I've had the two vaccinations, a booster, and a flu jab.

Touch wood, I don't often get ill, although used to get a shitty cold/flu virus once a year but usually put that down to work - long hours, long flights, lots of public transport etc. I had no ill effects/reactions to the jabs at all. Though my wife was struggling for 48 hours after the flu/booster combo. Several of my colleagues have had the booster then were off work ill for 2-3 days. Sorry to say, but I actually reckon they were milking it!

I've had all the jabs for two reasons, the main one being that I selfishly just wanted to reduce my risk of contracting full blown COVID to the minimum. I'm overweight and not fit (work life balance all wrong) so I am proactively taking steps to protect myself. I still use hand sanitiser all the time and wear a mask as required, So far so good. The second reason is to protect others around me. I'd take it hard if I was responsible for the hospitalisation, for instance, of a family member just because I couldn't be arsed, or thought I was entitled enough, to NOT take a vaccine that has proven safe to 99.99% of the people who have had it.

Freedom of choice is very important. But with it comes responsibility and sadly I just do not trust people to respect that responsibility so I have taken it into my own hands and chosen to be vaccinated.

if people choose not to then that is their right but they better not whinge or moan if they get COVID, nor their relatives kick off if they die as a result. They made their choice.

[pete]

Also had all the above but then being a child of the sixties will take anything going. Was also quite ill after the last two and was definitely not milking it.

[march]

1 hour ago, pete said:

Was also quite ill after the last two and was definitely not milking it.

Same here - The Booster and the Flu jab(both at the same time) have knocked both of us for six for about a week, although being a farmer taking time off work was not an option..

[gregs24]

4 hours ago, eeyoreish said:

What I don't really understand is why the government seems to be spending so much time and presumably money encouraging the take up of boosters. In my mind (and by the evidence of everyone I know), surely anyone who's had the first 2 jabs is going to make it their business to get the 3rd. 

The real issue around vaccinations is surely encouraging those that didn't bother with/didn't want the first 2 to reconsider their decision or apathy. That's where a little context against 'normal flu' and other potentially fatal conditions might be persuasive if the figures are as bad as they're made out to be and people can see that they are therefore wrongly assuming Covid is nothing to worry about...

Certainly on the evidence of our local centre take up is not a problem. They had to stop 'walk ins' as they were overwhelmed.

[gregs24]

5 hours ago, Barrykearley said:

The issue youve so eloquently highlighted there is the issue. I have several friends whom are consultants working within A&E - these bed places are empty and unstaffed now resulting in folks not being able to access care.

And some of that is because of trying to segregate COVID patients / staff treating them. Clearly staff cannot go from one to the other with such a contagious disease.

The NHS doesn't stand a chance of recovering until COVID is under control and not draining resources as it is. 

[ramjet]

Well a fully vaccinated nurse over here in Australia, 44 years young, tested positive and died from Covid 19.

I don't believe that we have seen all of the things that could happen from this. I believe that governments are doing the best they can to keep in front of it.

If they get on media and say everything is fine and all is good and then something happens, the media and the public would criticise them for not doing enough.

Governments are damned if they do and damned if they don't. Has always been that way and is highly unlikely to change.

[PaulCP]

Exactly, it’s a no win situation for any govt, especially with today’s pathetic media and, over here, the even more pathetic opposition parties.

For all of his faults, and he has many, not a single one of the opposition party members would want to have been in Boris’ shoes these past 18 months.

[Bibs]

[C8RKH]

I am assuming @Bibs that that is Covid related deaths? ?(i.e. they did not necessarily die of Covid but had tested positive for Covid)

Give that on average 11,000 people die each week, that 132 is what, 1.5% of all deaths.  Shit, wonder what killed the other 98,5%, or near 10,000, poor souls!!!!!!

[Barrykearley]

Shhh @C8RKH you’ll expose the truth.

[exeterjeep]

Boris on tonight......

[gregs24]

'Omicron' will exceed 'delta' tomorrow in London. Just take a moment top consider that. The first cases in the UK were in late November, just over 3 weeks ago. That is explosive spread.

First death confirmed today.

This is no joke / hoax / scare mongering, it is real and here now.

20 hours ago, C8RKH said:

I am assuming @Bibs that that is Covid related deaths? ?(i.e. they did not necessarily die of Covid but had tested positive for Covid)

Give that on average 11,000 people die each week, that 132 is what, 1.5% of all deaths.  Shit, wonder what killed the other 98,5%, or near 10,000, poor souls!!!!!!

There are three definitions used for deaths from COVID giving slightly different figures. All the data and definitions are available on the ONS website together with all other causes of deaths.

Deaths registered weekly in England and Wales, provisional - Office for National Statistics (ons.gov.uk)

[SFO]

1 hour ago, gregs24 said:

'Omicron' will exceed 'delta' tomorrow in London. Just take a moment top consider that. The first cases in the UK were in late November, just over 3 weeks ago. That is explosive spread.

First death confirmed today.

Has there been "explosive" growth in number of CV19 cases in London? 

looking at national case numbers, in the last 7 days, cases increased by 11.9% and testing increased by 12.6% - seems to me, the more you test, the more you find. over the same period, hospitalisations up 3.7%. 

Omnicron death - put out there with no detail, IMO purely to scare the public. No analysis of whether the death sheds any light on virulence. is it a death due to CV19 or as a result of CV19? Age, underlying health conditions? It's not as there hasn't been any deaths from Delta ...

10 omnicron patients in hospital .. out of tens of thousands of estimated cases ... again, remind me why we a panicking as if no one has been vaccinated and/or vaccines are wholly ineffective against hospitalisation and death 

I still think this is all part of Boris's plan to divert attention from his omni shambles No 10 operation