Hot, hot, hot...

[JimmytheTurbo]

On 29/07/2023 at 21:56, TAR said:

Lol, how stupid that guy is. He didn't even bother to check his source.

But is he wrong?

The BBC said Norwich would be 36 and I dont think it got above 25?

When I was in Barcelona they said 45 and it was 32. 

So the data could be flawed but he seems closer to the mark than the BBC

[TAR]

He's obviously a conspiracy theorist.

I doubt very much if he cares how hot it was. His narrative comes over as 'there's no problem with the weather'

Is it just the BBC that's misreporting the weather or are the Met Office also out to con us?  

[JimmytheTurbo]

9 hours ago, TAR said:

Is it just the BBC that's misreporting the weather or are the Met Office also out to con us?  

Are both not government funded agencies?

Uncle Elon seems to label them as such, much to the BBCs annoyance

[Escape]

It's not just the BBC. If you watch out weather reports, it's all doom and gloom as well. One of the presenters even wrote an activist book about global warming and wont let any chance slip to hint at it while doing the forecast. Right now she seems disappointed as we're having a pretty typical Belgian summer with a lot of rain, so she can't claim the end is nigh...

[Kimbers]

38 minutes ago, Escape said:

It's not just the BBC. If you watch out weather reports, it's all doom and gloom as well. One of the presenters even wrote an activist book about global warming and wont let any chance slip to hint at it while doing the forecast. Right now she seems disappointed as we're having a pretty typical Belgian summer with a lot of rain, so she can't claim the end is nigh...

We are having a deluge of reports on the BBC (Which I think I will change to "State media") They use words Like Furnace and Global Oven. I also heard "People cooking in their own homes".

The level of fear they are trying to generate is going way over the top. Meanwhile we haven't had a summer yet. It's 15 degrees this morning in Norwich, same as it has been for the last month at least. Raining and cold. To explain why it's raining and cold they say it's a global warming event and that these events will be become more frequent under global warming.

Now to me none of that makes sense. It's gonna be raining and cold more in summer but you say it's going to be hotter. 

Now the level of contradiction ramps up because they are also saying "You need better insulation to keep your house warm" only in the other hand they are producing articles saying "How to keep cool in your own homes as global weather gets hotter". Now there's a direct correlation between interior heat dissipation and high levels of insulation. So what do you want? Us warmer in winter or cooler in summer because you (the media) are saying soon it will be like the Med here in which case we should be shedding insulation and painting our houses white! 

It's all very confusing!

[exeterjeep]

on tonight is the second part of a 2 part report (1st was about EV's)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-66359093

The truth about heat pumps and the power needed to run them

In just 12 years' time you won't be able to buy a gas boiler any more.

[Rambo]

Here's the real truth

 https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/scottish-news/humiliation-scottish-greens-heat-pump-30588325?int_source=amp_continue_reading&int_medium=amp&int_campaign=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target

A big no no for Scotland and one in the eye for the so called Green party 🤣

[JimmytheTurbo]

2 hours ago, Kimbers said:

Now the level of contradiction ramps up because they are also saying "You need better insulation to keep your house warm" only in the other hand they are producing articles saying "How to keep cool in your own homes as global weather gets hotter". 

Even on Jeremy Vine people where saying since increasing insulation their homes dont warm up in the winter days like they did prior to insulation. I found the same thing when we had cavity wall and increased loft insulation.

The big thing is most temperature sets were started in the Victorian era when we were coming out of a mini ice age. So temps will rise as they should.

Even in the late 50s they were talking about letting nukes off over the poles to melt the ice and warm up the north and southern areas.

For me there is nothing new under the sun. Nature will do what it does and its only Man who thinks he has any influence over what she does.

[C8RKH]

Nature is already doing through the natural breakdown of sperm DNA. In several generations the DNA will deteriorate to the point we cannot reproduce 

As you say, nature finds a way.

[JimmytheTurbo]

I dont think that is nature but nano particles, plastics and oestrogen in the water.

We are facing a global collapse in the population.

There will likely be no Japanese people in 100 years. France Spain and much of Europe are not far behind. 

[C8RKH]

Just what the planet needs to be honest.

[Escape]

Too slow if you ask me. I'm sure they'll find ways to restore fertility, or worse, Europe/Japan will become overrun by immigrants.  I guess it's bound to last my lifetime, so not too worried.

[C8RKH]

Well, if I was (I wasn't) considering a heat pump this, if true, would definitely put me off one.

 

apparently heat pumps only heat the water to 54 degrees which is below the recommended 60 degrees declared by the Health and Safety Executive to prevent Legionnaires disease.

[MPx]

Yes that's true.  In fact I only use mine to heat the water to 45 degrees as that's MUCH more efficient and once you're used to it is perfectly good for all normal stuff like long hot showers and washing up.   The downside is that once a week you have to do a "Thermal Disinfection" which basically means running the immersion (or flange) heaters to heat the water to 65 degrees for a couple of hours to kill off any traces of legionaires (or anything else).  Its programmed in (a specific program in my heat pump and I'd imagine similar in all the others) and happens automatically on Friday night at 2am - costs me about 8 units of overnight rate leccy.

[Escape]

9 hours ago, C8RKH said:

Well, if I was (I wasn't) considering a heat pump this, if true, would definitely put me off one.

 

apparently heat pumps only heat the water to 54 degrees which is below the recommended 60 degrees declared by the Health and Safety Executive to prevent Legionnaires disease.

As pointed out, heat pumps lose efficiency as the temperature difference increases. Which is why they typically operate at lower temperatures than conventional heating or hot water systems. In colder climates (like Scotland), this becomes a problem in winter, and efficiency suffers. For heating systems, legionnaires is less of a problem as it's a closed system. But the lower temperature compared to a diesel or gas heater means you need bigger radiators and possibly bigger pipes to ensure sufficient flow to attain a comfortable temperature. So substituting a heat pump is not always possible, unless you go to the expense of 'upgrading' the entire circuit.

Hot water systems are another matter. Ideally you do want those above the 54° threshold. But I must admit the boiler in the Workshop is probably below that most of the time as well, as I only turn it on just before taking a shower before heading home. No point in keeping it up to temperature all week long if it will only be used once or twice. Same with kitchen boilers that are only turned on to do the dishes.

[pete]

12 hours ago, C8RKH said:

Well, if I was (I wasn't) considering a heat pump this, if true, would definitely put me off one.

 

apparently heat pumps only heat the water to 54 degrees which is below the recommended 60 degrees declared by the Health and Safety Executive to prevent Legionnaires disease.

from 2025 the new building regs will limit the flow temperature on heating systems to 55 deg. hence the popularity of under floor heating

https://wms-uk.com/low-temperature-systems

[oneshot]

We currently have 4 heat pumps. However 3 are air to air heat pumps. One is air to water which is used to heat the swimming pool to a nice 31.5 degrees.

The other three are combined heating and cooling. We replaced the gas heating in the cattery with these air to air systems. In winter they heat and in summer they cool. When they were commissioned they take the temperature at the air outlet into the buildings. On heating it was 65 degrees and on cooling it was -4 degrees.

[C8RKH]

And would you say your bills were much cheaper as a result @oneshot?  I'm hearing a lot of people complain that to keep warm they are:

a). having to spend a significant upfront cost to replace pipes, radiators, and install significant insulation, as well as the boiler for a heat pump (we are talking over £20k total install costs here)

b). that their bills have not reduced significantly due to high electricity consumption to power the pumps

Personally, I am not convinced that for my house it would be the right way for me to go.

[oneshot]

If you ignore the swimming pool as that is a luxury - the cattery ones which are air to air I believe have made a saving. We are on LPG with a 2000L tank. Given that we have to have heating/cooling on 24 hours a day (it is a licence condition that the temperature in the cattery has to be maintained between 2 limits) we are not using anywhere near the amount of gas that we did. The air system also circulates the air so the condensers aren't always running. It recycles the warm air in the units and tops it up (or cools it down) as necessary. Very rarely are the condensers running at full tilt. The only time I noticed was when we had the very hot spell last summer and then they were going at full chat to cool the air.

[C8RKH]

Thank you @oneshot for the response. It feels though that the savings are not that large, and so the initial install cost may take some time to pay off to allow you to break even.

[MPx]

11 hours ago, C8RKH said:

 I'm hearing a lot of people complain that to keep warm they are:

a). having to spend a significant upfront cost to replace pipes, radiators, and install significant insulation, as well as the boiler for a heat pump (we are talking over £20k total install costs here)

b). that their bills have not reduced significantly due to high electricity consumption to power the pumps

a) yes in spades - if you want it to work well then you need a properly designed and integrated system...  Ground Source HPs are considerably more expensive to install (total) than air source, but do have some advantages.

b) yes - you dont go to a heatpump system on financial grounds, you do it for other reasons.

[C8RKH]

Thanks @MPx, so in essence, a bit like the EVs it's a middle class solution to make them sleep better thinking they are doing the right thing 🤣😂

At some point hopefully our Politicians will be rudely awoken and realise that what they need to do is:

1. Support low income households through a free energy efficiency survey and education programme.

2. Provide grants or other support to ensure these homes are insulated fully - floor, loft, walls, doors windows.

3. Make the energy retailers install and maintain the heat pump for free, retaining asset ownership, and recovering the cost over 20 years via a property charge (allow them to charge interest at say 3% fixed for the duration). If the house is sold the debt can be paid off from the "profit".

4. Enforce Landlords to make the upgrades on their properties but allow the costs to be offset against any tax liabilities from the rent income.

If it really is about making a difference then we need to tackle this at scale, not piecemeal.

[Bibs]

I've just head that SE Water are going to reconsider the hosepipe ban today, what with it having rained pretty much every single day in July!

[Mark Blanchard]

You know where they can stick their hose pipe.

[oneshot]

16 hours ago, C8RKH said:

Thank you @oneshot for the response. It feels though that the savings are not that large, and so the initial install cost may take some time to pay off to allow you to break even.

@C8RKH you are probably right about the savings but the cattery paid so less for the tax man to take and it also is a selling point to potential customers who often say that the cats have it better than people being in air conditioned facilities.