Reverse gear problems and how to check/top up transmission fluid.

[GreenGoddess]

Hi Guys,

 

My 1984 Turbo is giving me a serious challenge when trying to select reverse gear. I know reverse is a bit of a pig in these cars to start with but it's got really bad recently. 

I need to check the oil level in the gearbox but I have a few questions:

1. I assume the correct oil level is when the oil is perfectly level with the drain plug, is that correct?

2. Where do I add oil?

3. If oil level is not causing the reverse selection problem, what else should I look for?

 

Thank you. I have tried reading the Lotus Service Notes but I couldn't find anything about how to top up the transmission fluid.

[CarBuff]

1.  That is the factory method.  BUT Harry Martens (Citroen transmission specialist) recommends an extra 1/2L fill. You might benefit from some of his YouTube videos 

https://www.youtube.com/@HarryMartensHML

I don't know how you would determine the extra fluid without draining it. then If its been 3+ years you might as well put in more MT-90 Redline.

2. You add oil on top of the trans. There is a rubber plug in the boot floor to access the transmission fill port. Lift the carpet, you'll see.

3. Are you properly LIFTING the gearstick when selecting reverse? If so, doesn't the stick go back and engage reverse? (sorry, don't want to assume anything) Often, you need to engage first gear for a second top allow the reverse to engage.

There is a reverse cable that has been known to stick, and is sometime replaced...especially if the car had been stored for long periods. Refer to the Service Notes (and parts lists) to see where to add lubrication and make any other needed adjustments. Also, assure that the pivot bushings (there are 4) are in good shape. SJ Sportscars or JAE Parts have them.

 

[jonwat]

2 hours ago, GreenGoddess said:

If oil level is not causing the reverse selection problem, what else should I look for?

Take a look at adjusting the gear selection linkages & refer to the workshop manual for the procedure 

 

[GreenGoddess]

Thanks guys. That’s a lot of good info. 
Yes, I am definitely lifting up the gearstick when engaging reverse. I bought the car last August and reverse has always been ok until the last few weeks. Now it’s extremely difficult to get it to go in. I usually put it into 1st gear and then go into reverse. The last time I took it out for a drive it was a nightmare getting it to go in. 
I’ll try and check the fluid level tomorrow. I have read about putting in an extra 1/2 litre. If the level is low I will drain the whole lot and do a refill up to 3 litres. 

Edited March 11, 2023 by GreenGoddess

[910Esprit]

You don't need to do that, but its obviously good practice to change the lot.   There is a level plug on the side of the gearbox (Its the lower of the 2 on the side and looks surprisingly near the bottom!   (Think its LHS from memory).   You could use that to work out if you are already overfilled or not, or simply add an extra 1/2 litre if you are at the correct level.  

NB  The linkage adjustment is notoriously finicky between either getting 5th or reverse - but if selecting 1st helps, that suggests that your clutch may be dragging , maybe worth bleeding that thoroughly?

 

[jonwat]

2 hours ago, GreenGoddess said:

I usually put it into 1st gear and then go into reverse.

That's the normal way to select reverse gear. If it's grinding when trying to select reverse it's because the clutch is dragging rather than the transmission being low on oil.

Make sure your clutch hydraulics are operating correctly & check the manual on how to adjust & bleed the clutch correctly. If either of the clutch cylinders are leaking fluid they'll need replacing.

Edited March 11, 2023 by jonwat

[rgh0]

I am not sure what hose to the clutch slave cylinder the 84 turbo had but if this is getting soft it can lead to the clutch dragging and reverse being hard to get.  in my 78 S1 Esprit I had to select first then reverse to stop the clutch dragging with the original red hose.  Putting in a metal braided hose fixed the problem

 

regards

Rohan

[dsvitesse1]

Hi, maybe the input shaft circlip and needle bearingfailed failure.

 

cheers,

 

harry

[GreenGoddess]

Thanks guys. I haven’t had the time to look at the car yet but I’m interested in the “clutch dragging” possibility. 
 

My car has metal braided clutch fluid lines. I will check for leaks. 

Pardon my ignorance, does the clutch share the same fluid as the brakes? If so, a drop in brake fluid level could indicate a leak in the clutch hydraulics I suppose. 
 

 

[ChrisJ]

It is nearly always the gear linkage that is at fault. Check and adjust these first.

Mine used to lose reverse every 6 months - just before a service was due. Adjustment made, lasted 6 months. When I recommissioned my car in 2012, I mentioned this to Gerald, who said not to worry, he'd sort it. Not had an issue since - although that has probably put a hex on it.

 

[jonwat]

2 hours ago, GreenGoddess said:

Pardon my ignorance, does the clutch share the same fluid as the brakes?

No

[GreenGoddess]

On 13/03/2023 at 22:04, jonwat said:

No

Well I took the car out today for a decent 60 mile drive around all sorts of roads. All the gears including reverse were going in perfectly 😂. So now I’m questioning my own sanity. 
 

[jonwat]

12 hours ago, GreenGoddess said:

So now I’m questioning my own sanity. 

If it was summer I'd suggest you were suffering from "red hose syndrome" but it's not & I see you have a SS braided hose fitted so you'll just have to see how it goes.

[drdoom]

The chaps here have posted the entire catalog of insights worth considering in dealing with this, so you're well informed. In my experience the sticking clutch has been quite an eye-opener, in how much it can impair clutch function. That seems to arise in fairly short time when the car is out of operation in cold, damp climate conditions yet would remain clear once freed if the car remains in reasonably regular use. FWIW.

Cheers

[GreenGoddess]

On 20/03/2023 at 16:05, drdoom said:

The chaps here have posted the entire catalog of insights worth considering in dealing with this, so you're well informed. In my experience the sticking clutch has been quite an eye-opener, in how much it can impair clutch function. That seems to arise in fairly short time when the car is out of operation in cold, damp climate conditions yet would remain clear once freed if the car remains in reasonably regular use. FWIW.

Cheers

Thanks. I use my car at least once every 2-3 weeks. I have been doing that since I bought it last August. I will never let it sit for longer than that because I know that's when trouble starts. 
I will keep an eye on things. As you say, there's a lot of very helpful info in this thread that I can refer to if necessary.

Thank you everyone.

[drdoom]

Here in fairly humid Vancouver I kept my Elan in an unheated, rustic garage as did a mate with his Esprit S1. We each had experience with a stubbornly stuck clutch disc after few weeks of inactivity when conditions were cool and damp. Rude and nasty exercise it was, freeing those up.