Is electric really the answer?

[Kimbers]

This is a really good article to highlight what I say above.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/features/how-hiring-an-ev-in-tuscany-ruined-holiday/

[Elite 4.9]

I don't believe electric is the answer right now. maybe in the future but definitely NOT NOW.  

Here's why from two different researchers conclusion.

 

 https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=paul+christensen+lithium+ion+battery

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=paul+christensen+lithium+ion+batter

 

cheers,

Richard

 

 

[Sparky]

Just picked up my rental in San Diego.  Ford Edge requested; they didn't have one or anything similar.  Agent said "we have plenty of electrics available but I'm guessing you won't want one."  Clearly they're not popular, even in squeaky clean California.

Got a nice thirsty Ford Explorer instead.

[exeterjeep]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-68275705

Hydrogen fuel plant for vehicles could be built in Exeter

A pilot plant supplying hydrogen fuel for vehicles could be built in Exeter by 2026, it has been revealed.

[exeterjeep]

who really wants a self driving sports cars.... and as for

Carol Vorderman in EV form            - no thanks - have you seen a pic of her recently.

[pete]

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/xycQJxo9ZqPRHQtv/

[Kimbers]

Love this

[C8RKH]

Spent the day training on new DC 30kw chargers. These are going to be a game changer for the van/light commercial fleets.

That's us certified now on over 40 manufacturers chargepoints from 7kw to 250kw.

Just gearing up for our national launch of an exciting, new, service offering for CPO's.

A great day finishing with a beer now and followed by a lovely curry lol.

Electric market is strange right now, but lots of opportunity for infrastructure operators.

And, one for @Colin P we've just won our 200th insurance reinstatement job since launching a new provider service on 1st Nov. 23.

[Escape]

On 05/02/2024 at 16:21, exeterjeep said:

Electric cars don't seem to be impacted by Paris vote.....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68196828

The move triples parking rates for cars weighing 1.6 tonnes or more to €18 (£16; $20) an hour in inner Paris.

There are exemptions for fully electric cars, taxi drivers, tradespeople, health workers and people with disabilities.

 

There is an exception for EVs, but only in that the limit for EVs is 2000kg. So a lot of EVs will not pass, especially things like the Model X. The main exception, and what probably got the vote through, is that the triple rate does not apply for residents of Paris in their own district!

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

I was talking to a friend of mine in India the other day who owns fleets of taxis in a few cities there. He had been considering investing in some electric cars but hadn’t realised the negligible vehicle value after the battery guarantee expires. He keeps his petrol and diesel cars for many years and they are all well maintained and provide an additional major source of income to the company when sold (he owns lots of them). He could not afford to effectively scrap them.

As a an aside Tata has recently introduced an indigenous EV hatchback that some taxi companies are also using. I saw one grind to a halt on a busy Bangalore flyover, presumably due to an empty battery.

[blindside]

I would be very happy to place a large bet on the Government’s ill considered, market force denying EV timelines being completely undermined well before 2030. US/European manufacturers who have staked their future exclusively on EVs are already panicking at huge losses and diverting resources like crazy.

2030 EV compliance is a total pipe dream.

[tim_marra]

I agree with all of that. Manufacturers will be up in arms once governments wake up and smell the coffee. The sooner the better I think. Go on flight radar or marine traffic and see the huge volume of oil burning behemoths. Crazy stuff.

[auRouge]

On 18/02/2024 at 21:06, blindside said:

I would be very happy to place a large bet on the Government’s ill considered, market force denying EV timelines being completely undermined well before 2030. US/European manufacturers who have staked their future exclusively on EVs are already panicking at huge losses and diverting resources like crazy.

2030 EV compliance is a total pipe dream.

If we all threw away ICE tomorrow that would only solve 7% of the UK’s CO2 problem. 

It’s a question of priorities and the elephant in the room is burning Gas to keep these inefficient EV’s running…

Robbing Peter to pay Paul! 

Appreciate there needs to be a transition period but is this really going to happen? As you say, it’s a pipe dream but made a certain political figure sound important at that time 🙄

[C8RKH]

On 18/02/2024 at 21:32, tim_marra said:

I agree with all of that. Manufacturers will be up in arms once governments wake up and smell the coffee. The sooner the better I think. Go on flight radar or marine traffic and see the huge volume of oil burning behemoths. Crazy stuff.

Manufacturers and their greed, are a large part of the problem, so they can be up in arms all they want, but THEY are a significant part of the problem.

Poor Government legislation has led to a situation where the market was driven by the top end, luxury BEV models, as those capable of securing through salary sacrifice were basically swapping paying tax for a new car. Absolutely bonkers. And, when was the last time that real societal change and adoption was achieved by focusing on the "premium luxury" (you know, the market Lotus only talks about these days) sector?

Manufacturers designed and made HUGE, high performance, heavy and inefficient EVs because they could make more money per model. They focused on tech and ludicrous 0-60mph times when people really wanted range efficiency and low cost of ownership. A spectacular own goal by ball greedy motor executives. How is that really good for the environment?

Instead, they should have focused on smaller, lightweight, hyper (oh, another new Lotus overused word) efficient EV's that made the case for town and city dwellers to switch by their millions (they switched by the tens of thousands!).

So for me, the tears of the motor manufacturers are about as needed and effective, and false, as the tears of a politician at a COVID inquiry.

[Kimbers]

5 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

Instead, they should have focused on smaller, lightweight, hyper (oh, another new Lotus overused word) efficient EV's that made the case for town and city dwellers to switch by their millions (they switched by the tens of thousands!).

 

Trouble is City dwellers can't "fill up". Many don't have drives or have to park on the street. There's no infrastructure in the Cities and if you can't fill up from your own charger using cheaper electricity you end up paying double than you would for an ICE car. So add in not practical.

In terms of small BEV cars, the technology is not there to give good mileage to small cars. There's not enough floor space to get more than 150 miles. Yes I know cars like the E-208 say 217 miles but we had 50 on fleet and I can assure you they get nowhere near that. So thats partly the reason they are building Behemoth SUV's cause they can fit in more batteries but thats a false economy because of the cost. And round and round they go. 

Speaking of which have you seen the new EV9? Its Mahoosive! 7 seats, swivelling middle seats....I could genuinely fit 2 of my Sportage in side it and all for a "great value" £65-70,000!!! Affordable motoring seeing as its worth half that as you drive it off the forecourt.

[C8RKH]

I agree with your points @Kimbers

I guess my point is that we went down the wrong direction - fuelled by Government incompetence and ill informed legislation, and manufacturers greed.

Town and city dwellers don't need a big range, and a small, light, efficient, "commuter car" could by now have had a range of say 250 miles with the right design impetus.

But instead, as per your picture above, we're going ever bigger. Ever heavier. Ever shorter distances!

We really have cocked up this transition royally.

[Kimbers]

The issue now is that the Manufacturers have gone so far down this route there is no going back for many.

Many like KIA are announcing 100% BEV by 2030 no matter what the Govt say and they have invested so much it would be catastrophic to change direction. But some, like Toyota have been smart, saying the right thing while keeping their powder dry on other projects. And some, like the German Brands and have been openly hostile to 100% BEV.

[exeterjeep]

Went into or local JLR dealer the other day to book her RR in for a warranty issue, and the sales guy we know there, is not keen on EV's and seems to think that JLR will be looking more at other options.

[C8RKH]

Anything that improves, generally, the woeful reliability of their cars is to be applauded. It seems they have finally acknowledged they have an issue.

Edited February 21 by Bravo73

[pete]

[blindside]

On 21/02/2024 at 10:01, C8RKH said:

Manufacturers and their greed, are a large part of the problem, so they can be up in arms all they want, but THEY are a significant part of the problem

Add to that a collective lack of strategic thinking, or even a rudimentary SWOT analysis. Where’s the reality check occurred around UK governments ability to deliver on anything significant. Most of all our energy supply and transportation infrastructure needs? Naive would be a polite way to describe their approach if they anticipated anything other than virtue signalling followed by can kicking.
 

With the notable exception of Toyota, and to a lesser extent the Germans, they’ve all drunk the cool aid and embraced the massively hyped ‘globalist’ agenda around climate change, net zero etc. No clarity of thought about the fundamental business considerations around unproven technology, a dubious value proposition, non-viable transition timelines and the inability to coordinate complex public/private investment needs.

The biggest surprise is that they’ve effectively given the Chinese manufacturers an open goal if they continue with EVs as their primary product. They are not subject to the same energy supply, work force & production cost constraints. Once they have gained sufficient intellectual property to provide real cutting edge, affordable quality cars it will be a survival of the fittest contest.

I wouldn’t back the greedy, complacent manufacturers to come out on top.

 

[Bibs]

https://energyminute.ca/news/toyotas-1690-rule-the-case-for-hybrids/

[dave excell]

I am afraid the electric car 'revolution' wont effect me. Till I can get one for around 3K second hand and it will last another 100,000 miles with just routine maintenance. I will just have to run my i.c.e vehicles. I will be dead before that happens.

[mg4lotus]

@dave excell Me too, probably.

[exeterjeep]

https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/sir-jim-ratcliffe-accuses-governments-of-forcing-evs-on-consumers-as-he-reveals-new-electric-model/298160

Sir Jim Ratcliffe accuses governments of forcing EVs on consumers as he reveals new electric model

Ineos boss Sir Jim Ratcliffe revealed his new electric 4×4 yesterday

He made comments that consumers don’t want EVs

The billionaire said regulations force car makers to develop EV models to survive

The Fusilier will be available with a range extender petrol engine