Is electric really the answer?

[C8RKH]

Your spanner bracelet and 1970's overcoat will make you look just the part @Sparky  You'll be spotted by Watford TV productions and your own drama series "Life on Bushey" will be a hit. @Kimbers can be your sidekick, the naive copper from the turnip fields of Norfolk. The crims will have Norfolk'n chance.

[Sparky]

We could call it 'Life In Bars'.

[Veloce_Rosso]

No, not a long-term solution.

The bro-in-law has recently purchased a Tesla Model 3 second hand. Tesla only offer a warranty for the battery for 8 years. The cost of replacement batteries aren't cheap.

My Alfas are over twice the age of a Tesla battery. What happens to the batteries afterwards? You can't refurbish them. Probably scrapped somewhere in the far east. The Teslas are built in the US, do they come over electric ship? Nope.

Also, around 40% of all our electricity still comes from fossil fuelled power stations.

Unless they can make a car that's solar powered or hydrogen, electric cars are only a stop gap.

[C8RKH]

@Veloce_Rosso you really do need to stop over thinking this, and start to drink the Kool-Aid.

Noble people. Pure people. They buy the Tesla because they want to save the planet.

They want to put money into Saint Elon's pockets so he can invent flame throwers that shoot out flames over 20 feet.

They want to put money in the Saints pocket so he can build rocket ships to blast off to Mars, spewing their flames and gases not just all over the planet but in space too.

They want to put the money in Elon's pockets so he can fly anywhere he wants, at any time he wants, with whomever he wants, in one of his gasoline fuelled fangly spangly aeroplanes.

Oh the irony of the Teslaites. 

I'm off to buy a Model 3 so I can be baptised into the Tesla Church of the good and pure.

 

Or...... maybe not.  To avoid claims of biased advertising, I should point out that EVs not from Tesla are also available, and you don't need to drink the Kool-Aid or get baptised to buy one of those alternatives. I wonder, do Teslarites have a special handshake? They do seem to have a "special" grin.

 

Oh and given the times we are in, and how sensitive some can be, for the avoidance of doubt, this post is satirical!

[pete]

And you think that will save you from the wrath of God😁

[C8RKH]

God? Yes. The lunatics whirring about in the asylum. No.

[Chillidoggy]

15 hours ago, Sparky said:

Ahem...

“Get yer trousers on, you’re nicked!”

[Kimbers]

13 hours ago, C8RKH said:

 

Oh and given the times we are in, and how sensitive some can be, for the avoidance of doubt, this post is satirical!

Maybe it was satirical but it was his brother in law you should be talking to  

13 hours ago, Veloce_Rosso said:

No, not a long-term solution.

My Alfas are over twice the age of a Tesla battery. What happens to the batteries afterwards? You can't refurbish them. Probably scrapped somewhere in the far east. The Teslas are built in the US, do they come over electric ship? Nope.

 

The batteries as they break down are toxic. There is currently no technology to recycle them and from what the EV makers tell me, if there was it still wouldn't be financially viable.

So that's good then

[C8RKH]

1 minute ago, Kimbers said:

The batteries as they break down are toxic. There is currently no technology to recycle them and from what the EV makers tell me, if there was it still wouldn't be financially viable.

Ah, but I have a long memory and some on here where telling us that in the future the batteries WOULD be recyclable, and that once done in cars they'd also be used as storage in big battery farms. Delusional? Far sighted? Inspired?

[Kimbers]

I have seen some more progressive companies using old EV batteries to store solar power if they have solar panels on the roof. But the issue is, if they are old they won't store very well and are inefficient, losing some of the power generated. Someone said "You should use batteries from cars written off in accidents etc" but that shows total naivety as any batteries that are involved even in minor shunts are considered highly dangerous and are always written off or else...................

 

[Veloce_Rosso]

10 hours ago, Kimbers said:

Maybe it was satirical but it was his brother in law you should be talking to  

The batteries as they break down are toxic. There is currently no technology to recycle them and from what the EV makers tell me, if there was it still wouldn't be financially viable.

So that's good then

Exactly my point. Batteries have to be carted off to the far east somewhere to be dismantled and then either dumped at sea or a huge landfill. Do they go by electric ship or plane?

[Veloce_Rosso]

On 11/04/2024 at 20:40, C8RKH said:

@Veloce_Rosso you really do need to stop over thinking this, and start to drink the Kool-Aid.

Noble people. Pure people. They buy the Tesla because they want to save the planet.

They want to put money into Saint Elon's pockets so he can invent flame throwers that shoot out flames over 20 feet.

They want to put money in the Saints pocket so he can build rocket ships to blast off to Mars, spewing their flames and gases not just all over the planet but in space too.

They want to put the money in Elon's pockets so he can fly anywhere he wants, at any time he wants, with whomever he wants, in one of his gasoline fuelled fangly spangly aeroplanes.

Oh the irony of the Teslaites. 

I'm off to buy a Model 3 so I can be baptised into the Tesla Church of the good and pure.

 

Or...... maybe not.  To avoid claims of biased advertising, I should point out that EVs not from Tesla are also available, and you don't need to drink the Kool-Aid or get baptised to buy one of those alternatives. I wonder, do Teslarites have a special handshake? They do seem to have a "special" grin.

 

Oh and given the times we are in, and how sensitive some can be, for the avoidance of doubt, this post is satirical!

Rather have a horse & cart than a laptop on wheels. Old Musky can go and 'do one.'

A flame thrower (or projector) of over 20' already achieved in the First World War by a ironically refrigerator designer called William Livens.

 

[exeterjeep]

https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/gwm-ora-to-inspect-condition-of-ev-car-batteries-after-crashes-to-cut-waste/300514

GWM Ora to inspect condition of EV car batteries after crashes to cut waste.

 

one part of the article says.. does not sound the greenest of current situations....

GWM Ora says it hopes the programme will cut down on the ‘unnecessary’ wastage of EV batteries after very minor accidents.

Often these accidents just cause damage to the bodywork, leaving the car’s battery pack unharmed. However, sometimes battery packs are thrown away due to lack of technical information and perceived inability to repair batteries.

[exeterjeep]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-68818113

Tesla lays off more than 10% of its workforce.

The company is set to report its quarterly earnings later this month but has already reported a decline in vehicle deliveries in the first quarter, its first in nearly four years and also below market expectations. Some analysts described the results as "tumultuous."

Last month, Tesla reduced production at the Gigafactory in Shanghai and last week Tesla told employees who work on the Cybertruck that shifts will be shorter on the production line at the Austin.

Tesla has begun to feel the impact of slowing demand for electric vehicles (EVs).

 

[C8RKH]

It would seem not!  The below is interesting. It's not a game changer but it does show that manufacturers have been working hard in the background looking at alternatives, and those alternatives could well be viable, but, not today, not tomorrow, but in a couple of years.

https://www.ecoticias.com/en/carmakers-new-engine/1022/

Again for balance, EV for city cars all day long. Alternative fuels are required for other use cases. For instance, just back from a 700 mile round trip as my mother had had a fall. Luckily, my daily had a full tank of fuel so after driving 298 miles south, the pottering around getting stuff sorted for just over a hundred miles mostly in towns, I drove the 298 miles back. That was 700 miles in total, on a tank of fuel, with enough fuel left over for 104 miles when back home - I averaged 54.6 mpg in a large E-Class Convertible! No faffing about at services to refuel/recharge the car, no range anxiety, no stress. You just cannot do anything like that in the current EV's.

I've got a lot of work coming up in Manchester which will need to be commute the 290 miles each way every other week. I will not, I believe, be able to do that as a single journey of 290 miles one way in ANY current EV on the market without having to stop to recharge along the way. I can do the whole return journey without refuelling with ease in my ICE, and probably cheaper too if the EV meant I had to use public superchargers.   To replace the fuel on the 700 mile journey cost me £90 - less than £0.13p a mile.

Change is coming. EV's are a huge part of the answer, but they are just that, "part" of the answer.

 

[jonwat]

Today's Times reports:

The vast global overproduction of electric cars at a time of stalling consumer demand is likely to result in millions of zero-emission vehicles being left unsold over the next two years and hasten price wars, according to private industry research.

This is likely to benefit consumers but could send parts of the industry into crisis, experts say. Regulators and legislators, meanwhile, are likely to come under renewed pressure to rein back their ambitions to reduce carbon emissions, which has fuelled the electric car production boom.

Proprietary industry data seen by The Times shows that this time last year the global automotive industry expected to make more than 15 million battery electric cars in 2024. However, slowing consumer demand has led to that projection being cut by two million to a little over 13 million. Yet that remains about 50 per cent ahead of forecast consumer demand, which is predicting global electric car sales of about 9.3 million for 2024.

 

 

Oversupply of battery electric cars is set to worsen over the next couple years, according to analysis of the data.

Slowing demand in China, where electric car sales are projected to fall 10 per cent, has already prompted carmakers to slash prices, with Tesla and its main rival BYD cutting prices for their most popular models by 20 per cent. New AutoMotive, a transport research group, has previously forecast 10 per cent discounts this year in the UK on some electric models.

[exeterjeep]

Tesla in the news again, more price cuts......this must put off even more people actually buying these or other EV's  with their own money. 

https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/tesla-slashes-prices-in-several-countries-in-move-which-could-impact-used-ev-market/300925

Tesla has slashed its prices in a number of major markets, in a move which could have a major knock-on effect on the value of used EVs.

The Elon Musk-led outfit has reduced the price of its Model Y, Model X, Model S and Model 3 cars in various markets, following a slump in global sales.

Prices have currently not dropped in the UK but should the outfit follow suit here, it could lead to a repeat of what we saw last year – when used EV values plummeted

[Bibs]

[DarrylV8]

@Bibs did you get a chance to have a good look around the car; any thoughts 

[exeterjeep]

Based on the experience of owners of the MG4 electric car, I would steer clear for a while so they can clear up issues they are bound to have.

[Bibs]

@DarrylV8, not really as it was about to do the councours drive thing but it looked nice, lots of tech inside and about £60k they said. 

[C8RKH]

8 hours ago, exeterjeep said:

Based on the experience of owners of the MG4 electric car, I would steer clear for a while so they can clear up issues they are bound to have.

Which Lotus model are you advising us to steer clear of?   

 

[blindside]

European governments & car manufacturers have clearly been asleep at the wheel for the past 10 years. (The US recognised the threat earlier, but have still been wrong footed).

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/theres-a-new-trade-war-brewing-over-global-dominance-in-the-electric-car-market-13123086

Western policy makers caught between the Net Zero virtuous rock and the hard reality of market forces. Watch the Germans in particular wriggle out of hard targets over the next few years. They will suffer more than anyone. In this context the ICE & hybrid offering to market mix remaining in place is throwing them a lifeline/doing them a massive favour.

[exeterjeep]

On 23/04/2024 at 19:14, Bibs said:

lots of tech inside and about £60k they said. 

Dealers have started taking orders.....

• Prices start at £54,995 for entry-level Trophy edition

https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/mg-dealers-start-taking-cyberster-sports-car-orders-with-prices-starting-at-less-than-55000/301053

 

And Stellantis are not too happy about UK policy re the ‘terrible’ ZEV mandate.

https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/stellantis-boss-threatens-to-slash-uk-presence-in-response-to-terrible-zev-mandate/301061

[C8RKH]

If I had a pound for every car manufacturer who threatened to pull out of the UK I'd be able to buy a drink in a top Mayfair establishment.

We had all these threats of Brexit, and what happened? Sweet FA. And, the same thing will happen here. It's just nonsense as always.