Is Hydrogen really the answer?

[Bibs]

It's certainly starting to look that way but I've still got an inkling that synthetic fuels may have a shout. 

[Escape]

As has been said in the other topic, the only viable solution in the short to medium term seems to be a healthy mix. EVs could be fine for fixed routes (mail and deliveries for example) and short distances, provided there the charging infrastructure can keep up. Which is not the case by far in most urban areas, with users unable to charge at home.

ICE, either fossil or synthetic seems necessary to keep longer distance traffic moving. Synthetic has the great advantage that it can use existing technology (ICE) and infrastructure (handling and delivering).

Hydrogen may not be the most efficient, but as a fairly easy to use and compact energy carrier (compared to batteries) it could play an important role. Without stressing the existing electric grid. For long distance, shipping and to make better use of 'green' but varying production capacity from offshore windfarms etc.

[C8RKH]

5 hours ago, Escape said:

EVs could be fine for fixed routes (mail and deliveries for example) and short distances, provided there the charging infrastructure can keep up.

EV's are a great solution for urban areas where you do not need a large range and can easily adapt charging locations for short "burst" use, and overnight charging.

They are absolutely shite for delivery purposes though, as many Electric Van owners are looking at a "real" range of 60-100 miles on a full charge, fully loaded.  

Hydrogen would be a far more viable option for delivery purposes.

For vehicles for personal use, where people may need to drive say 150 - 350 miles as a "journey" then PHEV will be superb, and I predict we will soon see Hydrogen being used in these vehicles as opposed to petrol. In addition, the new synthetic fuels will be used here too.

You're correct @Escape, it is the "mix" that will result in the best solution.

I recall the discussions on here of a couple of years ago, where the EV fan boys always promised the future was just around the corner - graphene was the answer apparently...  Well, four years later it is no nearer lol.

[Cdm2018]

I had attended a conference last summer at silverstone which looked at alternative fuel or energy sources for fleet/race world.

Toyota had started a serious development into hydrogen use have seemly stalled their programme however at the conference it was opinions that synthetic fuel would be solution for racing be it modern or vintage but it be expensive in short term for general use but once a further leap in economy of scales in production methods it could reduce the unit prices?

the mix would be the next general application for next 15-20 years to be honest after that I switched off as I am likely to old for driving to care but I suppose for my kids I took the notion that some other innovation will arise ? 

[C8RKH]

1 minute ago, Cdm2018 said:

that synthetic fuel would be solution for racing be it modern or vintage but it be expensive in short term for general use

Harry (from Harry's Car YouTube) buys the synthetic fuel in oil drums and uses it for all (?) his petrol performance cars.

The more widespread its use, the cheaper it will be.

[Bibs]

Ta-da! 

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/british-firm-launches-shelf-hydrogen-fcev-powertrain

[Kimbers]

I met a friend of my fathers who has spent years setting up a hydrogen engine business in India. Unlike the UK, India is going HUGE on Hydrogen. This from the Govt website. Please note they have a date of 2047 for 0 carbon, not 2030or 2035 like us! Their main factor seems to be they can make their own Energy and fuel cells unlike EV's where everything has to be imported.

https://mnre.gov.in/hydrogen-overview/#:~:text=Hence%2C India has launched the,emissions and achieve energy independence.

"Hydrogen fuel cells have a high energy density and are more efficient than traditional combustion engines, making them an attractive option for powering vehicles. Furthermore, Green Hydrogen can be used in microgrids, providing electricity to remote areas and enabling energy independence.

The importance of Green Hydrogen in achieving energy independence for India cannot be overstated. The production of Green Hydrogen using renewable energy sources like solar, wind, and hydropower can provide energy security, reducing dependence on fossil fuels and ensuring a stable and reliable source of energy. Green hydrogen can also be produced locally, reducing the need for costly and environmentally damaging imports"

[Escape]

The above plaform looks like it's from outer space.

Raise shields and phasers at the ready!

[DarrylV8]

On 01/03/2024 at 12:47, C8RKH said:

Many on here had Electric as the "final solution" and refused to hear any argument against....  They're mostly quiet these days though lol.

We have purchased an Eletre, but if Lotus had/where going to go down the hydrogen route; this would have been sat on our driveway alongside the GT430

[C8RKH]

Hydrogen was always going to come through and will be in the mix for sure. However it faces similar infrastructure issues to EVs and so it will still be a bumpy, frustrating, ride for 5-10 years.

[sailorbob]

Good luck in finding a hydrogen filling station. As of December last year there were only 16 in the UK and only about half of them are open to the public. I suspect their roll out will be slower than EV charging points.

[C8RKH]

@sailorbob as I said, hydrogen will need 5-10 years.

You're comment could well have applied to EV charge stations 10 years ago.

 

[Kimbers]

On 10/03/2024 at 15:14, sailorbob said:

Good luck in finding a hydrogen filling station. As of December last year there were only 16 in the UK and only about half of them are open to the public. I suspect their roll out will be slower than EV charging points.

I did post about 30 pages back, an article from Fleet News that BP had guaranteed a full hydrogen network in the UK by 2030. 

Most fleets will just have their own pumps as the Majority of Hydrogen powered Commercials and cars have a range well in excess of 400 miles. Compared to an EV Mid sized van of 80 miles, they should be able to operate 100% on their own Hydrogen.

Interesting that one of the companies looking at running a full hydrogen Fleet is Eon. An Electric company! Their EV van test was a disaster and are looking at Hydrogen now as an alternative!

[ramjet]

What about if someone made a hydro-electric car?

That could fill up at either hydrgoen or electric outlets.

I'm a solver. There is no charge.

<also posted in the electric thread>

[Veloce_Rosso]

Don't like the notion of electric. We looked at electrical cars a few years back and found it doesn't save the planet or money. Hydrogen is far more palatable with the use of water. 

My Alfas are 19 and 20 years old, over twice the lifespan of a Tesla battery. Work it out for yourself.

[Kimbers]

GM and Honda start producing mass produced Hydrogen cars.

 

[NG5]

Hydrogen-fuelled diggers to be allowed onto highways

https://www.constructionenquirer.com/2024/03/27/hydrogen-powered-diggers-to-be-allowed-to-use-highways/

The JCBs in question are Hydrogen ICE, not fuel cells btw.

[NG5]

And,

ACO to Host Hydrogen Demonstration at Le Mans

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/lemans24/aco-to-host-hydrogen-demonstration-at-le-mans/

For both fuel cell and ICE hydrogen cars

[Kimbers]

And another manufacturer relooking at its EV Commercial vehicle policy.

MAN to introduce hTGX with hydrogen combustion engine (fleetnews.co.uk)