What made you UNHAPPY today!

[Chillidoggy]

[Ali tuck]

As a carpenter / builder of 35+ years I do get mightily pissed off with the  ‘all builders are shit‘ tag.agreed some are shit but many are not and work extremely hard and turn out quality work day in,day out.

customers are also shit,everyone always knows more than you,they decide whether they fancy paying you or not and the general consensus is you’re a useless tosser-even on here I get that feeling-it takes a very long time to learn your craft to be a proper tradesman- I love what I do but if I had my time again I wouldn’t do it .....

rant over- 

[C8RKH]

@Ali tuck - you are quite correct, the general perception is that builders are shite and to be honest, the reputation can only come from experience and so if those in the trade want to change the perception then need to be the change and drive standards up.

It's not just Builders. Car Salesmen get a bad rep. Estate Agents. Etc. By and large they are well deserved reputations.

I've got a superb plumber. The work he does is a dream. However I've been "nagging" him for 8 months to fix a shower. Got other stuff for him to do as well so he could turn it into a few days well paid work.

I never quibble on price. Once agreed that is the price and I often offer to pay up to 40% upfront to cover materials etc and pay on time - i.e. I get the bill and it is paid within 5 days max, cash in bank to builder. So maybe I'm a shite customer. But in return all I expect is good comms (very rarely get it) and a quality job done and finished (sometimes get it).

So yes, shite builders. Shite customers. But the cycle needs to change.

[Barrykearley]

I’ve a very effective way of avoiding really shit customers - but if I mention the secret method on here - I’ll get lambasted by the left wingers 

[Colin P]

1 hour ago, C8RKH said:

It's not just Builders. Car Salesmen get a bad rep. Estate Agents. Etc. By and large they are well deserved reputations.

I've got a superb plumber. The work he does is a dream. However I've been "nagging" him for 8 months to fix a shower. Got other stuff for him to do as well so he could turn it into a few days well paid work.

 

It's shit everywhere and why - because everyone wants the cheapest price, so we get a service based upon what can be charged. The few that don't chase down cheapest quote are not a big enough percentage to maintain a quality supply of availability so those that do a good job and won't quote cheap are so in demand that they can't fit people in quickly and struggle to return calls because they are busy dealing with their current customer.

I have the same issue in my industry - insurance - 99% of people buy the cheapest policy (just see posts on here) and are then surprised that their claims are adjusted to the minimum possible - quelle surprise, why do you think they are cheaper?

As regards tradesmen, it is exactly why I pretty much do everything myself, so I can schedule when I want and know it will be done to my standard. The new house has clearly had some real quality work done on it in the past, but me being me I pull up every floorboard that has been removed before to see what has been done and have so far had to repair 2 wires which had been partially drilled through by tradesmen. One with 2 inches of live, neutral and earth exposed (and I mean the copper core) with nothing on it at all and another where the neutral was exposed for about 5mm and a half arsed attempt to put 3 inches of electrical tape round it.

[C8RKH]

52 minutes ago, Colin P said:

those that do a good job and won't quote cheap are so in demand that they can't fit people in quickly and struggle to return calls because they are busy dealing with their current customer.

Can afford to pay someone in their office to field the calls etc.  It's called customer service and some people, myself included, are happy to pay for quality.

The irony is that the people who penny pinch on a "proper trade job" are usually the dickheads who then go out and pay for a so-so "premium badged" car from the likes of Audi etc. In other words, they are fools easily parted with their money which is why the trades then also rip them off.

[pete]

Carpenters generally make better builders than bricklayers who make up the majority of builders.

Often my quote or someone else's is giving to others with the hope they can beat the price which invariably they can because they haven't got to sit down for 2:or 3 days working it out.

 

[Sparky]

@pete I've seen your work; I'd take your quote!

[Colin P]

1 hour ago, C8RKH said:

Can afford to pay someone in their office to field the calls etc.  It's called customer service and some people, myself included, are happy to pay for quality 

Yes but not enough people feel like that. 

[Kevin Wheeler]

7 hours ago, Ali tuck said:

As an accountant of 35+ years I do get mightily pissed off with the  ‘all accountants are shit‘ tag.agreed some are shit but many are not and work extremely hard and turn out quality work day in,day out.

FTFY

[Barrykearley]

5 hours ago, Colin P said:

have the same issue in my industry - insurance - 99% of people buy the cheapest policy (just see posts on here) and are then surprised that their claims are adjusted to the minimum possible - quelle surprise, why do you think they are cheaper?

Hmmm.... now I’ve seen big prices and more cost effective prices from different brokers - yet the same underwriter and same terms. Are you really telling me there’s a difference there?

please do educate my ignorance 

[John FISH Curtis]

What made me unhappy today, getting a phonecall on the way home from a day out with my son. The business I work for are taking a different route to market and going from 390 to 90 staff. I could be redundant before Christmas.

[Kevin Wheeler]

Sorry to hear that @John FISH Curtis

[Colin P]

54 minutes ago, Barrykearley said:

Hmmm.... now I’ve seen big prices and more cost effective prices from different brokers - yet the same underwriter and same terms. Are you really telling me there’s a difference there?

please do educate my ignorance 

Like all things there is a difference in product on offer and the attitude to the way that claims are handled when they happen. I was really referring to personal lines and motor in particular, but it is true across the industry. 
 

If you go with the cheapest insurer who you’ve never heard of and write your car off, don’t be surprised if their “market value” is a lot less than that which would be offered by a “household name”. 
 

Are you saying that you have 2 different quotes from different brokers based on the same cover with the same insurer?

[Barrykearley]

Yes chap - markerpoint I believe was the underwriter. I’ve never been a fan of some of the umm bargain basement places - but some of the practices of even the best ones in the event of a claim can get somewhat annoying. You only need to see Bibs household claim to see the very clear issues.

[Bazza 907]

1 hour ago, Barrykearley said:

Hmmm.... now I’ve seen big prices and more cost effective prices from different brokers - yet the same underwriter and same terms. Are you really telling me there’s a difference there?

please do educate my ignorance 

Insurers offer different prices (for the same risk) depending on distribution channel. More cost effective channels get better premiums. 

Bit like when I went shopping and bought chocolate digestives at Waitrose, got home and was told that the same ones are 30% cheaper at Lidl (whatever that is).

Markerpoint? not heard of them but Markerstudy are insurance brokers not underwriters i.e. they simply pass the risk on and take a commission.

[Barrykearley]

Thems the ones @Bazza 907 - iirc - they are used by AIB

[Colin P]

I can’t defend the entire industry, or pretend that things don’t go wrong. Same can be said for every industry. I can say that my company and colleagues put in massive effort to make sure that “we always do the right thing“. 

4 minutes ago, Bazza 907 said:

insurance brokers not underwriters i.e. they simply pass the risk on and take a commission.

And different commissions at that, which will be reflected in the price. If the insurer needs £100. One broker demands £10 commission and the other £20, guess what the premium will be for each. 

[Bazza 907]

Markerstudy just let almost 500 staff go last month. It's a highly competitive market out there.

I'm no fan boy of the insurance industry but I know its poor reputation is often undeserved.

[910Esprit]

12 hours ago, Bazza 907 said:

Markerstudy are insurance brokers not underwriters

They are currently seeking regulator approval to move into different areas of GI and are about to migrate the book of a well known household insurer to their underwriting systems and I believe also operate a number of industry insurance packages for different GI products.    

Would recommend people look at their online rep, which probably supports what Pete said above...     

Edited July 29, 2020 by 910Esprit

[Bazza 907]

@910Esprit As an MGA or a risk carrier?

[910Esprit]

I believe as a full Underwriter, they will 'own' both the customer and the risk. 

[C8RKH]

13 hours ago, Colin P said:

I can’t defend the entire industry, or pretend that things don’t go wrong. Same can be said for every industry. I can say that my company and colleagues put in massive effort to make sure that “we always do the right thing“. 

And different commissions at that, which will be reflected in the price. If the insurer needs £100. One broker demands £10 commission and the other £20, guess what the premium will be for each. 

£400 and £500 is my view!  Prejudiced I know....

 

Constantly amazed by people trying to defend an "industry's poor reputation". It's a general perception it is poor because generally a significant percentage of customers have either had a bad experience or been let down. So the poor reputation is generally fair and deserved.

Now, I think we all know there will be exceptions. There will be be companies that are generally poor but every now and then pull it out of the bag. And there will be very good and solid companies within a generally poor industry.

For my own part, I had a huge amount of water damage (the whole of the upstairs of my house needed gutting and all personal belongings upstairs damaged/lost).  My insurance company was MoreThan. All I can say is that they were absolutely, bloody, brilliant.  Easy to deal with and did what they said they would.  However, my experience was shite!  How come? Well they used a 3rd party claims manager (who really could not have managed her way out of an unlocked room with the light on) and a third party reinstatement company who used so called trades that we are as competent as a four year old with a hammer in a china shop!  I don't hold that against MoreThan, the bit they "owned" they did well and I've been loyal to them ever since and to be fair they did not ramp the premiums up to a stupid level (the total cost of my claim was around £75k so not insignificant).

 

Sames goes for builders - generally poor experiences leads to a generally poor reputation. However, there are gems out there and some that even go the extra mile. If they weren't 350 miles away my next building job would go to these people:

https://themanc.com/trending/mum-praises-builders-kindness-for-leaving-pay-packet-for-young-son-who-helped-out/

 

[Chillidoggy]

1 hour ago, 910Esprit said:

They are currently seeking regulator approval to move into different areas of GI and are about to migrate the book of a well known household insurer to their underwriting systems and I believe also operate a number of industry insurance packages for different GI products.    

Would recommend people look at their online rep, which probably supports what Pete said above...     

I’ve just done that. Good grief, how is this company still trading!

[Colin P]

2 hours ago, C8RKH said:

£400 and £500 is my view!  Prejudiced I know....

Now, I think we all know there will be exceptions. There will be be companies that are generally poor but every now and then pull it out of the bag. And there will be very good and solid companies within a generally poor industry.

 

On the first point, commission disclosure is a requirement if asked - ask!! I can't express an opinion, but happy to share with you next time we share a bottle of red!

On the second point, you missed unreal expectations. I can categorically tell you that people expect insurers to pay for everything, maintenance, general wear and tear etc. You would laugh at some of the issues raised. People forget that it is there for the unexpected not the expected and it covers what you buy a policy to cover not anything that subsequently happens that you think should have been covered. 

It's like buying a screwdriver then complaining you cannot bang a nail in with it very well.

Anyway, generally I've given up defending generally, simply not worth it.