1. Australia

[neill1607]

The Mclaren appears to have a Mercedes logo on the nose where the Renault has a Lotus logo.

[jollyroger]

Vodafone is a multinational MOBILE TELECOMMUNICATION CARRIER, not a high-performance vehicle engineering company; by all means Vodafone is not a technical sponsor for McLaren, but they are also not trying to sell fast cars with the sponsorship!!

I mean come on, nobody else here thinks a legendary SPORTS CAR brand being placed on the front-end of a F1 car that has nothing to do with it is a little sad?

Could you imagine other prominent brands in the same business getting away with it without attracting criticism at least from the hardcore fans?

In motorcycling something vaguely similar has happened and still does (Aprilia GP bikes branded as Gilera/Derbi), but at least the same group owns all those brands!!

Lotus/Renault? I really wish it they were Lotus/Renault, like the ones that actually deserved to be named accordingly.

It was bad enough already in the IndyCar league, but in F1 where the brand won World Championships with a combination of sublime design and legendary drivers at the wheel?

Funny how there are TWO Lotus teams in F1 now, after years of absence, and yet I don't feel like really supporting either of them...

Edited March 27, 2011 by jollyroger

[Advantage]

It's a sponsorship deal.

[Iconic Ride]

I suppose it all boils down to whether of not you subscribe to the validity of a specific brand's name seeking exposure (visual publicity) via F1, regardless of what product it is pushing. While ordinarily an automobile marque's signage on a moving vehicle would signify some form of cooperative engineering effort, should that same signage be singled out as an "excepted category" that loses veracity when merely looking for name recognition alone? Most here already know that I consider the current Lotus Renault moniker combination to be an advertising "sleight of hand," yet I still have to give them credit for their legerdemain chutzpah. "The business of business" is to sell your product, by (as Malcolm X would phrase it) "any means necessary." Like many, my concern is primarily centered on the large potential for tarnishment of the marque, an ongoing nuisance due to the present naming battle, but also with regard to the dilution of the historical heritage by consistent backmarker performances. A significant percentage of racing fans will see only a moving billboard in an ignominious grid position, and reach conclusions at odds with that proud heritage. With that in mind, I'd be hard pressed not to be cheering on whoever of the four entries manages to gain ground, conflicting sentiments notwithstanding.

[USAndretti42]

The Lotus F1 cars of the 70's used a Ford engine the design of which had nothing to do with Ford. It was all done by Cosworth as was the 2004/2005 Chevrolet IndyCar engine. The Mercedes engines in the 90's were designed and engineered by Ilmor who also designed and engineered Honda's IndyCar engine of 2003 to now.. BMW won the Le Mans 24-hour race in 1999 using a car designed by Williams F1. How many Jaguar engineers at the Whitley Engineering Centre worked on the Jaguar F1 car? The Le Mans Aston Martin sports prototype was a Lola. The 2003 Le Mans winning Bentley was an Audi. The 2007 ALMS Acura P2 car was a Courage chassis heavily re-engineered by Wirth Engineering. It's the same story with Lotus and Renault. Who pays the money gets to put their name on the product (engine, chassis, etc.) Lotus certainly isn't the first to do this as the above shows and I doubt they will be the last. On the other had, many manufacturers have cars running round with their name on it when Lotus did all the engineering on it. Opel Speedster, Chevrolet LT1 engine, Metro Turbo.

In fact one has to question how much Lotus Cars had to do with any of the racing cars bearing the Lotus badge.

Then there is Renault F1 itself. The team was Benetton before Renault bought it. Then Renault sold a chunk to Genii. I'm not sure if Renault owns any of it anymore. And how much of it is engineered from Renault in France? Probably very little. So, if Lotus has bought Renault's share of the team, then it's probably more Lotus than it is Renault.

Very good showing by Petrov. He was quick all through Qualifying. Team Lotus' problem with getting hear into the tyres may prove to be a blessing come race day. I don't know what people would think the Renault engine would be any better than the Cosworth. The Cossie didn't seem to be lacking in power and was very reliable last year. The big gain was getting a top-class gearbox and rear suspension geometry.

Perez was a bit of an eye-opener, too. He was p there with Kobayashi until he had his problem in the pits whatever that was. Good for him.

[NedaSay]

So we all agree now there is a Team Lotus running Lotuses and not doing to good just right now but I'm confident with a soon to come change in luck! And we have a Renault Team racing Renaults with money given by Group Lotus PLC on behalf of Proton Berhad! Regardless of the sponsorship these cars should be referred to as Renaults!

[DanR]

Nice one Heidfeld - 3 Lotus badged cars line astern. Why did they pick Heidfeld to replace Kubica? Surely they would have been better off trying to sign up Hulkenberg - I assume they could not for contractual reasons.

Ah, 10 laps to go and one of those four Lotus badged cars is in 3rd position.

[alan]

Well done Petrov. Podium finish!

[DanR]

Ah, 10 laps to go and one of those four Lotus badged cars is in 3rd position.

Over.

There's one guy in particular born in Turkey who feels vindicated at this moment....

[ramjet]

So Petrov gets third for Renault according to the telecast (which interestingly has LOTUS above Renault on the pit crew shirts in a larger font?) and Team Lotus are listed as Lotus Renault in the broadcast.

I'm not sure about the DRS system whether it gives a rel advantage down the pit straight in Melbourne. Why wouldn't it also be allowed around the back of the track on the sweeper? And why wouldn't Webber utilise the KERS when he was following Alonso and trying to get past him?

[AntonyPeacock]

So Petrov gets third for Renault according to the telecast (which interestingly has LOTUS above Renault on the pit crew shirts in a larger font?) and Team Lotus are listed as Lotus Renault in the broadcast.

I'm not sure about the DRS system whether it gives a rel advantage down the pit straight in Melbourne. Why wouldn't it also be allowed around the back of the track on the sweeper? And why wouldn't Webber utilise the KERS when he was following Alonso and trying to get past him?

Have to a big congrats to Petrov.

DRS to me is a pile of crap, McLaren's "F-duct" had more effect last year, it needs more space than that to have a difference, and on the Webber note, Red Bull haven't been using KERS, they ran it on Friday but had problems with it, so they took it off.

And does it surprise you that the Lotus logo is bigger than the Renault logo on the fire suit, given the size of the logo on the nose.

The team names on the TV have changed aswell this year like you said, they are now incorporating the engine supplier too. Meaning Red Bull Racing Renault gets squashed into that little box.

[AntonyPeacock]

Then there is Renault F1 itself. The team was Benetton before Renault bought it. Then Renault sold a chunk to Genii. I'm not sure if Renault owns any of it anymore. And how much of it is engineered from Renault in France? Probably very little. So, if Lotus has bought Renault's share of the team, then it's probably more Lotus than it is Renault.

Just to clarify, Renault sold the remaining shares it held in the team to Genii Capital after the end of the 2010 season, even though they were reports that these were sold to Group Lotus, these were proved untrue by the team principal Eric Boullier, who confirmed they were just currently sponsors.

[red vtec]

I'm lost, as I'm stupid

Am I correct in saying:

Lotus Renault came third, race in the JPS colour scheme but are reffered to as Renault, but have the the Lotus badge on there race suit, and LOTUS all over the car etc. i.e faux factory team.

Team Lotus were also there, and they also have the same badge, and race in the Team lotus colours. Tony F's team

I'm a lotus owner and am lost, god knows what the general race fan thinks.

[Bibs]

Click for news

[AntonyPeacock]

Lotus Renault came third, race in the JPS colour scheme but are reffered to as Renault, but have the the Lotus badge on there race suit, and LOTUS all over the car etc. i.e faux factory team.

Team Lotus were also there, and they also have the same badge, and race in the Team lotus colours. Tony F's team

I'm a lotus owner and am lost, god knows what the general race fan thinks.

It's a disgrace, you've got a car that is purely a Renault, that is plastered with Lotus badges. Which they are entitled to do as part of their sponsorship deal, just as Vodafone does with McLaren, but then on top of that, they are using a livery that is linked with a team that they are not, basically just because TF's Team Lotus were going to use black and gold, no other reason as they use yellow and green on every other car they sponsor. Then you have Team Lotus, running cars that have Lotus chassis, that aren't plastered in Lotus logos, which in in keeping with what the original Team Lotus did, It just gets confusing like you say to people who don't follow the politics of F1.

Edit - And that is a great result from Vitaly, I think we are going to see a different Petrov than we saw last year, hopefully a race win will come at some point this year

Edited March 27, 2011 by Antony Peacock

[wookiecj]

Irrespective of the outcome of the Group vs Team or Lotus vs Lotus legal Gravytrain Championship race I'd like to offer my hearty congratulations to Petrov and Renault for finishing on the podium... (3rd or even 2nd pending scrutineering results?). There may be some precedence being set with a paid driver pedalling a car with paid manufacturer associations.......

I'm sure Renault are as delighted with their results as much as 'Team' are dismayed. Given the turnaround in the McLaren performance I would hope that 'Team' put this race behind them and manage to make comparable strides in the next two weeks before the green lights show in Malaysia. My heart and support is still with 'Team'.

Edited March 27, 2011 by wookie

[Gasman GT3]

I'm lost, as I'm stupid

Am I correct in saying:

Lotus Renault came third, race in the JPS colour scheme but are reffered to as Renault, but have the the Lotus badge on there race suit, and LOTUS all over the car etc. i.e faux factory team.

Team Lotus were also there, and they also have the same badge, and race in the Team lotus colours. Tony F's team

I'm a lotus owner and am lost, god knows what the general race fan thinks.

I agree, if us Lotus owners cannot decide the validity of either team to carry the Iconic Lotus name what must the armchair fan think.

The commercial reality is, if someone is looking to buy a sportscar then Lotus stand a bigger chance of getting his/her wedge if the brand is likely to be on the podium every other week. What effect would it have on the new Mclaren road car if the F1 cars were circulating at the back of the grid? Love it or loath it success sells, and dear old Danny being a merketeer knows that, and if success sponsoring the Renault team means that those fabulous concepts i saw in Paris last year have a better chance of becoming reality , is that such a bad thing?

All that aside what a sterling drive from Petrov, and anyone who says they didn't feel a sence of pride seeing the Lotus logo on the podium no matter how it got there is lying

[AntonyPeacock]

Both Saubers were disqualified because their rear wings were smaller than the regulations allow

[BrazierD]

Personally, if the Tony Fernandes/Lotus Racing team hadn't happened last year, then I'd have been pleased enough with Lotus' sponsorship of Toleman/Benetton/Renault/Genii this year - thinking "well, at least it's good to have the name back in F1 and perhaps the F1 team and Lotus Cars will become a coherent entity over time". But having followed the progress of the Tony Fernandes team and been caught up in their engaging PR, I'm still more interested in how they are doing than Lotus Renault GP, although seeing a car with Lotus written on it getting 3rd place was a good effort that team. Though I thought the black/gold livery didn't come across well on TV - just looks dark with red flashes for Total. (Tobacco never even crossed my mind!)

Hopefully Team Lotus will get the radiator problem sorted out for the next race, but maybe more worrying is the tyre temperature issue in qualifying. Couldn't they have run one longer stint instead of 2 short ones, to get the tyres warmer?

Both Saubers were disqualified because their rear wings were smaller than the regulations allow

What a shame for them - looked like a great result! Rules is rules though...

[AntonyPeacock]

Exactly, if Group Lotus had got involved in F1 first, even if it was just a sponsorship deal like the one with the Renault team, no one would have batted an eye lid, but the fact remains that Lotus Racing got their first, and established themselves as the team the brought the Lotus name back into F1.

I keep reading posts from people saying about Group Lotus planning on entering F1, no they weren't, if that was the plan they would not have let another team use a name similar to theirs. Its simple.

They got jealous of how the public welcomed Lotus Racing not Team Lotus and took them to heart and they wanted it instead, so they revoked the naming licence in order to brush them out of the way.

If two Rolls Royce companies can exist together in Harmony and two technology companies can exist with a common name (Hewlett Packard (HP) and Packard Bell) why can't these. Its just silly. Team Lotus only want to use the name in F1!

Yeah hopefully they will get those problems sorted and we can see them fighting with the midfield pack

Edited March 27, 2011 by Antony Peacock

[BrazierD]

They got jealous of how the public welcomed Lotus Racing not Team Lotus and took them to heart and they wanted it instead, so they revoked the naming licence in order to brush them out of the way.

Ultimately, the court case will decide the legitimacy of GL revoking the Lotus Racing licence, but simply from the timing it does seem to have been done to clear the way for the GL sponsorship of Renault. I'm not so sure about jealousy being the motive for that though, more bad timing - with Dany Bahar being hired and Lotus embarking on his "new era" at about the time the Lotus Racing licence was first granted - and maybe Genii's involvement in some sort of bigger deal with Proton/Lotus, all wrapped up with Proton's continuing effort to raise the funds for Bahar's plans and to justify their investment in Lotus to the Malaysian taxpayer.

BTW Given that as of a few weeks ago Proton had still not even convinced friendly local (Malaysian) banks to provide that funding, I wonder how much Proton/Lotus have actually contributed to LRGP's funding so far? The story was £20M/year, but then so was Lotus buying a share (half or quarter?) and that hasn't happened yet either. Perhaps Genii would have allowed the Lotus branding as a gesture of goodwill (and it's a good name to have on your F1 car of course) without any cash in the short term, if they have a bigger deal with Proton/Lotus lined up for when the big funding finally comes in. All pure speculation, I admit...

[fmxa]

Why is it a disgrace? Teams have been bought and sold for as long as F1 has been in existence. Just having the name Lotus on the podium(irrespective of if it's the "real" Lotus or not) is a major win for Group and part of the plan to bring the marque back to the prominence it deserves. Hats off to TF for what he's done, but they are no better this season than last so far, and do we really want the Lotus name associated with a "back marker" .....

It's a disgrace, you've got a car that is purely a Renault, that is plastered with Lotus badges. Which they are entitled to do as part of their sponsorship deal, just as Vodafone does with McLaren, but then on top of that, they are using a livery that is linked with a team that they are not, basically just because TF's Team Lotus were going to use black and gold, no other reason as they use yellow and green on every other car they sponsor. Then you have Team Lotus, running cars that have Lotus chassis, that aren't plastered in Lotus logos, which in in keeping with what the original Team Lotus did, It just gets confusing like you say to people who don't follow the politics of F1.

Edit - And that is a great result from Vitaly, I think we are going to see a different Petrov than we saw last year, hopefully a race win will come at some point this year

[dodgy]

Here Hear Paul

[jollyroger]

Ok, here we go, I don't claim to be knowledgeable about motorsport history, but some data are handily available all over the place:

The Lotus F1 cars of the 70's used a Ford engine the design of which had nothing to do with Ford. It was all done by Cosworth.

The Mercedes engines in the 90's were designed and engineered by Ilmor who also designed and engineered Honda's IndyCar engine of 2003 to now..

Ford and Cosworth have never had anything to do with each other, right?

The DFV itself was paid for commissioned by Ford to Cosworth, and it started its life as a F2 Ford-based engine (FVA).

Again, the first year of Mercedes-Ilmor involvement, the engine was referred to as "Concept by Mercedes-Benz", two years after purchasing 25% of Ilmor, then after directly paying for engine design and development the engines became officially "Mercedes"; hardly a pure branding exercise...

BMW won the Le Mans 24-hour race in 1999 using a car designed by Williams F1.

How many Jaguar engineers at the Whitley Engineering Centre worked on the Jaguar F1 car?

The Le Mans Aston Martin sports prototype was a Lola. The 2003 Le Mans winning Bentley was an Audi. The 2007 ALMS Acura P2 car was a Courage chassis heavily re-engineered by Wirth Engineering.

And the engine manufacturer for the LMR was... and by the way the LMR design was paid for by BMW in its almost entirety, Williams was used essentially as a design shop (and partner).

Jaguar was 100% owned by Ford, and yet this was nonetheless a shameful branding exercise too in my opinion.

Of course, one can indeed commission a design to an engineering shop and then brand the result as its own, but you will notice in the majority or all of these circumstances that something will be related to the overall brand nonetheless.

Aston at least provided the engine, Bentley at least designed the car (commissioned to Racing Technology Norfolk), Mazda Le Mans cars had Mazda engines, Jaguar with TWR, the list is very long, whereas the examples of completely coin-operated branding are less common (Coloni-Subaru fits in this latter category).

It's the same story with Lotus and Renault. Who pays the money gets to put their name on the product (engine, chassis, etc.) Lotus certainly isn't the first to do this as the above shows and I doubt they will be the last.

Come on man it's not the same, Genii owns 75% of the F1 team, with Lotus Group now controlling only 25%, so not even a majority share (what Renault had left), and especially for this year they contributed nothing, not a screw to the F1 car that carries the huge logo on the front.

Engineers in Enstone made the car, engineers in France made the engine, full stop.

I am sure Lotus won't be the last to enter this kind of deals, but once again it simply dilutes my respect for the brand; can you imagine if Ferrari or Porsche were to put their brand prominently on a sport/race car they had absolutely nothing to do with?

On the other had, many manufacturers have cars running round with their name on it when Lotus did all the engineering on it.

Opel Speedster, Chevrolet LT1 engine, Metro Turbo.

This is the whole point!! Do you notice how Opel, Chevrolet and Austin are LESSER sport brands than Lotus, and thus they actually paid Lotus for their expertise?

Can you see that in the F1 case the situation is completely the opposite?

Then there is Renault F1 itself. The team was Benetton before Renault bought it. Then Renault sold a chunk to Genii. I'm not sure if Renault owns any of it anymore. And how much of it is engineered from Renault in France? Probably very little. So, if Lotus has bought Renault's share of the team, then it's probably more Lotus than it is Renault.

And before Benetton it was Toleman. When Renault purchased the team and rebadged the cars, the engines had already been theirs for a while...

The Renault car was designed 100% in Enstone, UK, while the engine was designed 100% in France, near Paris; it's now more Lotus than Renault now on legal grounds, sure, but the actual car?

I am way too bitter about this I know, but I just can't stand to see the Lotus brand slapped here and there to get exposure rather than putting that money into actual products AND THEN market them properly and compete in motorsports with their own engineering prowess.

Oh well I better stop here.

[s2mikey]

Well, like someone else said - It was VERY heartwarming to see a car with Lotus badges crossing the line via a podium finish and holding off those !@#$% Ferraris.

As for what team to root for or whatever, I want whats best for for Lotus as a whole/company so if having their name on a car that is consistenty performing well with an exciting young driver, even if they have little to do with the actual car - then Im on board with that all day. As much as I enjoy seeing "team green" out there, lets be realistic: Its gonna be a loooooong season and there might be more DNF's than top 10's. I hate saying that but its true. Im all about the underdog but you have be realistic too. Its probably going to be ugly and furstrating for team green all year unless something drastically changes.

As for the race in general - there were some good individual battles but F1 seems to have the opposite problem that Nascar does: The cars are to spread out and after a lap or two you already have 20 second leads or more. Maybe they need more cars on the track? I dunno... its like you are watching a 2-3 car race. Too much gap between cars, IMO. And, there wasnt quite enough "hardcore, white knuckle racing either. Its just so damned hard to pass. Even with rear-wing gimmickry - that didnt help either. Oh well.

It is what it is. I know Ill be watching when I can and will certainly hope for quality finishes with ANY car that sports Lotus livery. And, Ill be hoping we stay ahead of those damned Italian cars.

Edited March 27, 2011 by s2mikey