Bye Scotland!

[silverfrost]

I personally thinks it sums ups what the Scots think,  A lot of them at heart would like to be seperate but on the other hand they know deep down Scotland would probably go to s,,t finacially.  Hence the devil fraze.  They will be to scared to leave so will stop in the same postion as its the norm 

[silverfrost]

[C8RKH]

Unfortunately I do live there!  The ideal time for Scotland to leave will be in around 18-24 months time to give me time to sell up and move back to Englandshire. i will NOT be staying in an independent Scotland. Already my tax bill is starting to grow compared to my colleagues working in rUK and that is before Independence and Scotland having to PAY to join the EU - funny point that last one, nobody in the SNP or Scottish Government ever mentions that you have to PAY to be in the EU and the common market.

There were a number of SNP ministers and MP's/Members of the Scottish parliament who ACTUALLY voted for Brexit.  So like the people of Scotland, the SNP and it's elected members are not unified on the value to Scotland of staying in the EU.  Funny, how that seems to not be widely reported or quoted.

It was not that long ago that the SNP, and Alex Salmond and his leadership team, were slagging off the Euro and were very anti-Euro as a currency. All seems to have been forgotten now.

There is a significant number of people in Scotland who do not want independence. The last time we had a vote on this matter these were the people who won. The SNP and their supporters still seem to need to get their heads around that.

There are a couple of huge differences with Indyref2 that I think will cause the SNP and the split supporters some real issues to deal with:

1. There cannot be any situation where a rUK outside of the EU could have a formal currency union with an Independent Scotland that was actively seeking to join the EU and the Eurozone. So, Scotland could continue to use the pound but it would not be a unit of currency "owned" by Scotland and Scotland would have no input or control or influence over the BoE's fiscal policies.  One of the key points in Indyref1 was that "it is our pound too" and the continued use of the pound.  This will spook a lot of voters.

2. When an independent Scotland joins the EU or the Eurozone they will be forced to accept free movement of people and agree a timetable for the adoption of the Euro as the defacto currency. This is absolutely against the agreement they UK seeking as part of Brexit so the two are incompatible. As a result, to stop the free movement of people coming to Scotland from the rEU to rUK a hard border with checks will need to be put in place between Scotland and England. At Indyref1 the idea of a border between rUK and Scotland was scoffed at by the SNP - it now cannot be denied as something that WILL NEED to be done.  This will spook a lot of voters.

3. Oil. Don't need to say anything more here. Voters already spooked and the cat well and truly out of the bag on this one.

4. Trade. Scotland exports 11 times more to the rUK than it does to Europe. What will come under scrutiny will be the value of trade in these two areas and what this will mean for Scotland's businesses and economy longterm as she transforms from an integrated member of the UK trading block within the EU and Common market and Customs Union to an external trading partner of the rUK. Remember, as part of the EU Scotland WILL NOT have the ability to negotiate a trading partnership or deal with its biggest export market. So if the EU tries to punish rUK for leaving, Scotland is er, I think the term is "fecked!". This will spook a lot of voters.

5. The EU - an independent Scotland has no guarantee of automatic membership to the EU, the EEA, the EU customs union or any other such EU organisation.  To join the EU Scotland has been told she will have to apply and abide by the rules. She currently breaks or is in default against EVERY fiscal rule required for joining and is at least 10 years away from getting that under control. In addition, at least 4, possibly 5,of the 27 EU members states who ALL have to say YES to Scotland, have already given a clear signal that they would not support any "special" or "assisted" or "fast track" entry for Scotland into the EU. This includes France, Italy, Spain, Belgium and I believe Italy.  There is no place to hide for the SNP on this, unlike last time when Mr. Salmond tried to hide behind a letter sent to an MSP that was worthless last time around.  The fact that Scotland's place is not assured in the EU, and that she will be cast out from the rUK (at her own asking) means that for a period of up to 10 years Scotland will be alone. All alone. However, I do believe the other 5 nations within the 6 nations tournament will allow her to still be a part of it. After all, the wooden spoon is useful for eating the porridge with.

I am sure there are many plus points. For the life of me, i cannot think of one that has the weight or gravity or impact of ANY of the 5 points above, let alone just one of them!  For that reason, and that reason alone, I will be out of an independent Scotland faster than a fire crew attending another pork pie fire at the side of the road.

Would love to hear the views of any Indy supporters. A healthy debate that does not degenerate to name calling and racism and hatred is always worthwhile.

[andmac]

Wow! You guys do realise that us Scottish members are able to read??

[C8RKH]

Yes. And some of us can write too!

 

To be fair to our english members, the vast majority of whom have not commented on this thread by the way - I have had dinners, at my house and friends houses in the lovely part of Scotland where I live, where the English have been insulted as much, sometimes more, sometimes less, than anything that gets typed on here. I know of english people who have lived in my part of Scotland for decades who feel they are being singled out and driven from their homes with the charged fervour of nationalism all around them and targeted at them. it's actually very sad to see this in any part of the UK.

I think one balance of payments figure that is very much in Scotland's favour, is the vitriol and vibe that gets thrown down this little Island toward England, compared with the amount that comes up the other way. In fact, it's interesting that now that some of my Scottish neighbours are waking up to this sentiment coming their way they are quick to call it out, after silently watching their neighbours dish out the other way for decades.

Just some observations from someone who has seen and been on all sides of the fence.

[oilmagnet477]

If Scotland leave England and want nothing more to do with us then presumably they will revert back to talking Gaelic and ban the use of the English Language?

[Malcolm Feth]

I need to visit Scotland next year before they ask for visas and border control hyhy

[C8RKH]

16 minutes ago, oilmagnet477 said:

presumably they will revert back to talking Gaelic and ban the use of the English Language?

Already started. Law past that if (a) parent asks for it schools have to respond and pay budget for it. Dual signs everywhere. Lot's of crap about it.

Funny thing is I'm sure it is only 1.1% of the population (57k people) who are fluent.

Another tail wagging the dog.

[pete]

The problem is Sturgeon's voice is the only one heard here and so it seems as if there is no opposition in Scotland to her opinion on leaving.The vote to leave was taken by the UK as a whole not by individual regions.Therefore is rather insulting to those who believe in a democracy to hear her whining on about leaving the UK hoping to get the outcome SHE wanted in the first place

Well we are fed up with it and as has already been said perhaps we should have the referendum to decide whether we want her or is there opposition to her opinion from Scottish people other than those onhere.If there is why don't they say somethingI

 

 

[Chillidoggy]

15 hours ago, andmac said:

Wow! You guys do realise that us Scottish members are able to read??

Yes!

Do you realise that us English members have a sense of humour?

[Barrykearley]

Let's just increase taxes on deep fried food - that should see the on their way to the polls

[Chillidoggy]

I'm wondering what effect independence will have on the price of Buckfast. It could well be the decider.

[C8RKH]

Depends on the import tax Queen Nic puts on it.

[Barrykearley]

Daft bitch will subsidise buckfast

its not fail the workshy and those on benefits have to pay more - they have the least

[silverfrost]

Wonder what the education system will be like, as at the moment the Scottish do not have to pay for University and Medical prescriptions which i personally find rather unfair.  

[Chillidoggy]

I think it's decided by the Scottish government as to whether they pay tuition fees and prescriptions, and if so, it comes out of their budget.

[C8RKH]

@ian29gte.  The SNP under Salmond made the university fee's system really unfair. Basically, if you are Scottish, or from any part of the EU with the exception of the rUK, you get your tuition fee's paid for. The SNP used a nasty little snidey "fudge" in the EU rules that allowed them to declare that the rUK was a "region" and so their "national law" for Scotland did not apply as they were just a region of the rUk too and therefore the equality rules across EU state borders that state all EU citizens to be treated the same did not come into effect! As for education, well, that has been going down hill rapidly in Scotland for the last 10 years. 20 years ago Scottish state education was THE best in the UK. End of. Now, it is largely a laughing stock all thanks to constant government tinkering and mess ups.

[silverfrost]

Does this mean Brexit will affect the funding for education fees ?

[C8RKH]

No. But it means EU people will need to pay..

[Chillidoggy]

I think the point that I was making was the cash for tuition fee and prescriptions comes out of the Scot's national pot of money, but the Scottish government decides what to spend it on. Is that the case?

[C8RKH]

Yes. That is correct.

[Alfa2Evora]

On ‎18‎/‎01‎/‎2017 at 13:48, C8RKH said:

Unfortunately I do live there!  The ideal time for Scotland to leave will be in around 18-24 months time to give me time to sell up and move back to Englandshire. I will NOT be staying in an independent Scotland.

As a Scot born and bred, something of which I was proud until fairly recently, it pains me to say that should the 3rd Krankie ever manage to satisfy her obsession then I'm with Andy although I won't be stopping in Englandshire but following in the footsteps of a fellow Scot......................

An incident this afternoon in our local shopping centre car park reinforced this decision, which was made a while ago and not just as an impetuous reaction to the above I hasten to add.

I was sitting in the Evora waiting for Jennifer to emerge from the Post Office when a car pulled into the space behind me - I use the term 'car' in its loosest sense as it was more a collection of rust particles, held together by a sea of pro-SNP stickers - but I paid no further attention until I became aware of a figure alongside my driver's door. They hesitated there for a moment then bent down to bring their face level with my window. The look of sheer hatred and fury had to be seen to be believed (the very appealing spider-web tattoo on his neck was noticeably distorted by a bulging Jugular) as he screamed at me "F***ing English c***" then proceeded to spit on the Union Flag emblem on the A-panel before swaggering off, still uttering a torrent of bile.

I'm only glad that I wasn't sitting in Jennifer's car. With his obviously highly-developed intellect, I shudder to think what this Neanderthal's reaction would have been to what I've no doubt would have been perceived as the Cross of St George proudly displayed on its bootlid and grille,  .........................

 

 

 

 

 

 

[C8RKH]

Really appalled you had to suffer that abuse. You should have taken his reg. Number and reported him to the police for racially aggravated assault (the spitting). It's the only way to stop it.

 

[Barrykearley]

Amazing that she actually appeals to the far right extremists. I wonder why the BBC hasn't noticed

[Alfa2Evora]

6 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

Really appalled you had to suffer that abuse. You should have taken his reg. Number and reported him to the police for racially aggravated assault (the spitting). It's the only way to stop it.

 

I did but "without a witness" there's seemingly not a lot they can (be bothered to) do,  .