Lotus in the post DB era

[vintaylor]

bahahahahahaha

totally random question Benjamin, But are you in anyway related to anyone Maltese? Calleja is a very common surname here in Malta - I know (sorry bibs)

[Whirlybird]

The ironic thing of that Bibs is DB probably thinks that way.

Did you miss out a comma or two there ?

"The ironic thing of that, Bibs is DB, probably thinks that way."

Bibs is DB ?

A bit like Bruce Wayne and Batman. Never seen together.

Edited August 30, 2012 by Whirlybird

[benjamincalleja]

totally random question Benjamin, But are you in anyway related to anyone Maltese? Calleja is a very common surname here in Malta - I know (sorry bibs)

Absolutely, my family just sold the Sliema pidgeon racing club across the road from the house they have owned for generations. So over there i have lots of family.....why who do you know?

i see you are also in your mid twenties, i have a cousin Rudy (i think?) who i believe organises big parties over there? Only met them all once.

[ramjet]

Can't be bothered with commas. Don't need to. There's always some smartie pants on here that will jump in and correct you.

[Bibs]

[vintaylor]

Absolutely, my family just sold the Sliema pidgeon racing club across the road from the house they have owned for generations. So over there i have lots of family.....why who do you know?

i see you are also in your mid twenties, i have a cousin Rudy (i think?) who i believe organises big parties over there? Only met them all once.

Could it be Ruby? there's a popular DJ in Malta called DJ Ruby. I must say I'm not big on the party scene, I'm more in the the rock/metal scene

[benjamincalleja]

Maybe, im not sure. i think his name is rudy. he is a giant red headed guy from memory. hey also check this out ppl, i think DB suffered from no 6.......http://www.forbes.com/sites/ericjackson/2012/01/02/the-seven-habits-of-spectacularly-unsuccessful-executives/3/

[Gus82]

All I can say is that "some friends" tells me that MJK and RB were closer to production of the Esprit than DB was. It's my impression that because of the fact the engine may not be viable without huge investment a replacement must be found and this will incur yet more cost as the internal design will need to change.

I think DRB are concentrating all their efforts, quite rightly, on marketing and selling the Evora, ironing out any final issues with the Exige S (they have an overheating issue at present) and getting everything to market. Delivering the Exiges they have on order will help cash flow hugely and allow them to look further ahead.

How feasible would it be to dust down the plans for the Evora based Esprit of the MJK era?

Even if this wasn't possible I think a heavily reworked version of the limited run Evora GTE could be the ideal basis for the new Esprit. As someone else mentioned the Elan concept looked quite close to an update of the Guigiaro versions of the Esprit. So how about giving the Evora a similar restyle, new high quality two seat only interior and tuned up engines? The Evora could evolve into a more iconic new Esprit cost effectively, just as the original Esprit was effectively an evolution of the Europa (I think?!)

I love the idea of a new Esprit but I don't see Lotus having the budget any time soon to build a true advanced supercar in the mould of the Ferrari 458 or Mclaren MP4/12C, but as a replacement to the Evora in a couple of years time it might be ideal.

Lotus next big investment after steadying the ship should be a 2 seat roadster with broad appeal (Elan?) to take on the Porsche Boxster directly. If they could offer to engineer and build a cheaper version of this car for a volume manufacturer it would help too. Obviously we've heard a lot about Renault in the past few weeks needing a partner for the new Alpine, and I've also posted about Kia being cash rich and wanting to add icons to their range, but how also about SAIC? It seems they are struggling to make the financial case for creating a modern MG sportscar yet they will really need this for rebuilding the brand in western markets.....

[Stirling_Villeneuve]

No idea how viable that is but I thought the new Elan was the best of bunch.

[Kimbers]

Angus, I would suspect, like with all things MJK (even his existence apparantly) that the car, plans, etc don't exist anymore.

[NedaSay]

No idea how viable that is but I thought the new Elan was the best of bunch.

Well based on the renderings and the mock dimensions that were provided back in Paris in 2010, I always saw the Elan Intent Prototype as very little more than an Evora reskin. Maybe with a slightly extended tub! If they want to make it, technically, they can no question about it. The questions are: did they or did they not get the factory ready for the switch from glass fiber to all aluminium body parts ; do they want the company to produce cars or focus solely on engineering and if they want to keep on producing cars, do they have the level of investment to do it?

[simonb]

TBH the one I would go for is the new Elise, presumably on the Evora tub, with the much improved entry / egress. 4 pot lotus is core market, and whilst other manufacturers drop the engine size, lotus should IMHO consolidate this part of their market.

[Gus82]

Totally agree Simon. I was previously impressed by the Bahar plan, but Lotus should forget about V8 engines now.

Really loved the Elise concept but should it keep that name if something like it made production? If it was going to be much more user friendly than the S1 and S2 Elises and probably more expensive, I think it would be wise to give it a new name or re-use a historic name that hasn't been about for a while. That was why I suggested Elan.

I'm sure though that it would be worth spending some money and resources evolving the Evora package especially if it results in a new relatively affordable V6 Esprit.

[Guest surferphil]

I think Lotus should continue with the V8/V6 development or they will be taking a massive step backwards. The engine should be properly developed and only put into a car when it is ready. We are talking future here and if Lotus don't sort this out then they will be stuck as an engine consumer that will suck prestige and profit from the brand.

Short term make that Evora a good looking car and fix it improve the interior so its not so naff. Sort out the V6 with a couple of turbos or turbo and supercharge it, do something clever that puts Lotus back on the map. Oh and they know how to because they have been doing it for everyone else for years.

Lotus always went wrong when they abandoned models and started again from scratch, whilst most manufacturers rely on the evolution of their models to retain the desirability from decade to decade and profit from it.

They have the entry level Lotus sorted in the Elise/Exige platform now to perfect the mid range Evora etc befor e moving into the super car/hypercar territory.

[TBD]

When launched the Evora was positioned as the upmarket model for Elige owners looking for something more mature. Obviously that didn't work out very well, in fact most Elige owners I have spoken with don't consider the Evora to be worthy of the Lotus name. The Elise/Exige were never a car for every day, I haven't met an owner yet who doesn't have primary car as daily driver. In the market the nearest, maybe only competitor is the Porsche Cayman, their worst selling model. Its really no wonder that the Evora is not the megaseller it should have been, its a superb car, but its absolutely wrongly positioned in the market. Its a niche car in a niche that just isn't there!

I'm totally convinced the Evora S is simply 15K€ too cheap and should have been positioned against the 911 from the beginning. Take those 15k€, put 1/3rd into profits (after all, we all wnt Lotus to survive) and invest the rest in getting the niggles out and the build quality up. Throw in some upgrades, like a decent gearbox and a Komotec Stage 1 equivalent (390hp) and maybe a facelift along the GTE lines. Price is not a selling point in this niche, but Lotus has the unmatched value of exclusivity.

Sure, Lotus won't beat Porsche in the maket, but it simply has to attract potential 911 customers. If Lotus quadruples Evora production Porsche wouldn't even notice in 911 sales.

[softlips]

^^^the numbers of Elise/Exige who have moved (like me) or plan to move into an Evora is growing quickly.

Part of the issue is people talking about Lotus having a history for building cheap sports cars. This is not true, my S1 Elise 111S was £31k with the extras 12 years ago, that wasn't cheap and the Esprit was more expensive than Ferraris on sale atbthe same time etc etc.

[Mark Blanchard]

Esprit was more expensive than Ferraris on sale at the same time

I'd like to think so, but the Esprit was always cheaper than the equivalent Ferrari.

http://www.lotusespritturbo.com/Car_Lotus_Turbo_Esprit_Ferrari_308GTBi.htm

http://www.lotusespritturbo.com/Lotus_Esprit_Turbo_Versus_Ferrari_328GTB.htm

[Iconic Ride]

While it's completely understandable, with Lotus currently in survival mode, that they would keep things close to the vest with regard to future plans, it is beyond frustrating for their potential customers to not have a clearer idea of where the company is going, specifically with their flagship model. One wonders if this quiescence is simply a result of industry confidentiality standard practice, or a lack of a plan altogether. One hopes for the former.

It is absolutely essential that Lotus (eventually) bring the new Esprit to market if they wish to retain their credibility in the minds of enthusiasts. It is their hallmark vehicle. And while financial constraints are obviously evident in the current environment, to borrow a phrase from NASA, "failure is not an option." And the ultimate end result of the effort by all rights ought to feature a Lotus designed and Lotus built powerplant. Anything less would soil the genetic heritage.

[Guest surferphil]

I think Lotus are fed up with 'marketing' a product they don't have, it has been a waste of money.

One thing for sure is that DB's tactic of big announcements and media spotlight had earned Lotus no favours and we are probably witnessing a change of management style from the extreme of an exhibitionist to that of a (normal) conservative mentality.

it just seems quiet at the moment compared to the DB era, but I think it's just 'normal' practice.

[Mark Blanchard]

Not the Turbo...well not according to the Jeremy Walton Book?

In your first link from 81 its given the basic Esprit pirce as £16k in my price list from 85 basic Turbo is over £21?

Buddsy

I think the Turbo was more expenisive for a short period in 1985, they were probably trying to shift the remaining stock of 308's as the 328 was coming out the following year. The year after the Ferrari was 5k more Clicky and more again Clicky. 2 years later the Turbo was £29,950 and the 328 was £44,196!

http://www.lotusespritworld.com/ERoadtests/ferrari_challenge.html

[Gus82]

It's interesting comparing the prices of these cars as I always thought the Esprit was significantly cheaper! However I think its important to remember that times have changed and to the broader public Lotus = Elise, if it means anything at all. I think it wouldn't take to much to remind people of the Esprit and drum up enthusiasm, but I suspect to get bums on seats the car would need to sell for a cheaper price than almost all the established rivals, never mind the Ferrari 458 which is significantly more expensive again.

I think this cover of Car from the 80's (if updated to perhaps an Audi R8 and the current 911) shows the ideal positioning for any new Esprit:

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Community/Media/Media-Gallery-Detail/?mediaItemId=14486&N=497%204294727652

As I said in an earlier post an effective new 2 seat Esprit could easily be created from the Evora components set and priced directly against the 911. It would I'm sure sell much better than the current Evora but would be cheap enough to develop as not to require ridiculous sales figures or a price few (non-enthusiast) buyers will be willing to pay.

[DarrylV8]

Sounds like you are describing the Exige (V6) S Angus?

A bit more touring/creature comforts possibly!

Perhaps if Lotus can get the Evora GTE sorted out and then drop a V8 into the engine bay using some of the rear +2 seats/rear bench it can compete both cost and performance wise??

[Iconic Ride]

I think this cover of Car from the 80's (if updated to perhaps an Audi R8 and the current 911) shows the ideal positioning for any new Esprit:

http://www.carmagazi...=497 4294727652

That cover shot belongs in the "How's My Parking?" thread, Angus!

[TBD]

In the league of Ferrari's Porsche and a targetted Esprit its not about price! In fact, if you try to sell cheaper that is exactly what the potential customers will see - a cheaper car. They won't want it. To be successfull Lotus has play in the same ballgame, providing equal or better quality for the same price. If money is not the issue you have to convince the buyer through quality and exclusiveness.

A facelifted Evora S matching Porshe build quality should in fact be priced slightly above the Porsche because it is much more rare. Give it the GTE looks, albeight not in carbon and take care of the niggles and if 1% of Porsche buyers go for it Lotus is a made company.

[Guest surferphil]

I agree, They should be slightly more expensive but a lot better after all Lotus Engineering is a lot better.