Wrong timing belt fitted to Stevens Esprit - V-belt instead of Toothbelt

[Vanya]

Hi all,

Right now, I find myself feeling extremely depressed and down due to a discovery my mechanic made yesterday while inspecting my Esprit SE ahead of it receiving classic-car insurance. I need some advice on how to proceed from here:

Prior to heading out of the UK with my car this May, I had the dealership's preferred workshop change the timing belt on the Esprit as it hadn't been done in years and I saw it as a relatively cheap form of insurance if it were to prevent a more serious accident (i.e. snapped belt with a destroyed motor as a result).

Since the workshop has worked with the dealer for a while, and deal with high-end cars, I thought nothing of this, drove the car home from the UK to Sweden, and have been driving it all summer until last night, when it was discovered that the workshop had mounted a V-belt on the timing-drive as opposed to the necessary toothbelt which the pulleys are designed for. My mechanic said V-belts were used on early Esprits but had been phased out a while ago and said I should demand a full refund without compromise.

So now, before I contact the dealer and workshop to see what kind of compensation can be arranged I have to decide how to proceed:

A) Do I keep driving the car in this state? Seeing as nothing has happened so far, maybe nothing will?

B) Do I put the car in storage until next spring which is the first available time my mechanic (who is one of the few Esprit experts in all of Sweden) has to perform the job

C) Dish out money for a burroughs guage, tough it out, and do the belt change myself (risky. Never done it before. On any car. Ever.)

Has anyone seen this mistake done before? In your opinions, is this a grave and inexcusable mistake? From my perspective, it is - if you're sitting there mounting a belt and see that the belt pattern is totally unlike the the pulley-pattern and mount it anyway, isn't this just negligent?

Thanks a lot for your advice.

Kind regards,

Vanya S.

P.S. I will post images as soon as I receive them from my mechanic - he took some with his digital camera.

[jonwat]

when it was discovered that the workshop had mounted a V-belt on the timing-drive as opposed to the necessary toothbelt which the pulleys are designed for. My mechanic said V-belts were used on early Esprits but had been phased out a while ago and said I should demand a full refund without compromise.

V belts have never been used to drive the camshafts & could never be used as a V belt slips.

If you look at the engine, you can see the large, flat camshaft drive belt with it's teeth at the far end of the engine up against the bulk head.

I think you've misunderstood what your mechanic has told you & we need to see the pictures he's taken but stop panicking.

[Vanya]

My apologies - I must have gotten the term wrong. The belt on my car has trapezoidal teeth, whereas the pulleys have round-tooth profiles. Sorry about that - Swedish is my go-to language for automotive terms so I end up making mistakes in my translation

[jonwat]

OK, that makes a lot more sense & yes, I would stop using the car until the belt has been changed to the correct one.

It's perfectly possible to change the belt yourself & there's plenty of guides to help you, but it's not an easy job for your first Esprit maintenance.

[Rich H]

I'd concur, stop driving it and challenge the garage that did the work.

Changing it is no where near as hard as it's made out to be but it's not somthing I'd start with!

It's fiddly to do as all the belts and the bottom pulley must come off as well as the water pump hose which is a pain too.

[ramjet]

Not really the best situation Vanya.

Get pictures and challenge the garage that did the work.

I wouldn't drive the car either until the belt is corrected.

Best of luck.

[Mike6]

Complete negligence on the part of the garage and at the very least you should get your money back. Its probably the most important job on the Esprit and I am surprised they did not notice. I made the mistake of ordering the wrong belt for my Esprit but it was immediately obvious that it was the wrong one and any competent garage should have noticed.

But why am I not surprised. My car came with garage bills (not Lotus dealers) for all sorts of work, most of which on inspection were complete bodges.

Dont drive the car but as others have said there are plenty of guides on how to do the work, fiddly but not that difficult. And once you have done it think of the satisfaction and money saved!!

[Vanya]

Thanks for all the support and advice. I will be in touch with the garage ASAP... my hopes aren't too high tbh, but it's more the negligence than the money lost that bothers me - although the money stings as well....

I've spoken to my mechanic and he said he can sort the new cambelt installation for me if I decide not to go it alone. Time to order a new kit...(and maybe a burroughs guage...)

[Sparky]

Hi Vanya

If you're up for something different, and you don't live far from Arlanda, I could pop over and help you fit one quickly! Done it before for Kim Poulsen in Copenhagen, and fancy adding Sweden to my portfolio. It's a cheap flight as I work for BA.

I could also bring over the necessary parts (not Burroughs though).

[Bibs]

You should take Sparky up on that offer

[tje111]

Vanya, welcome.

Be advised that the Gates Krikit tension gauge is a low-priced alternative to the Burroughs (I bought mine through Amazon.com). There is lots of discussion regarding its use elsewhere on this forum.

Keep calm and carry on,

Tom

[Sparky]

Yup - Krikit is my weapon of choice. Also much easier to fit in baggage.

[Vulcan Grey]

cell phone frequency tensioning for me!

I use the app called "Speedy Spectrum" on my Android phone. Works great for finding the first fundamental frequency of the belt.

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B2nifoCpaFSfOGJkMjQxMDUtNzk1YS00YjEyLTgyZTAtYmI5NjE4MjgxMmRm&authkey=CO_S1NoE

Engine is cold and at 30deg before top dead center (30 BTDC).

Microphone is placed close to the belt, as close as possible. Reach around the front of the engine and strum the belt in the middle between the intake cam pulley and the oil pump pulley. Strum it like a guitar string, do not let the finger touch the belt after the strum, slip the thumb off quickly with one motion.

This is for cars with the round tooth HTD belts only.

Standard software settings, though make sure to turn on peak hold and enable peak hold overlay. you can zoom in on the screen near 100Hz, but I look at the peak hold number in the upper right of the screen.

30 BTDC

Note CAM dots are slightly mis-aligned and not centered on the axis at 30BTDC

Speedy Spectrum at 103Hz on my HTC EVO 3D Android phone

Thumb technique

[Sparky]

Thanks for the reminder, Travis - been meaning to sort out Speedy Spectrum for ages!

[Vanya]

Hahaha Sparky - that's an awesome idea (actually I am situated 25 mins drive from Arlanda!), but I've preliminarily sorted it out with my mechanic who I've promised the job - he sorts out Esprits for pretty much most owners in Sweden from what I've heard. If it turns out that he should become unavailable, I'll be sure to PM you! Would be a blast though!

Travis - impressive what can be done with mobile phones nowadays! I'll be sure to try it one day when I'm brave enough to do the belt myself. Thing is, right now, I don't have a garage in which to do the work (just have one for storage which I'm not allowed to work in) and working outside the house being weather dependent in Stockholm is...well...a pain. I figure I'd need lots of time to do things carefully and not stress, and I don't feel that possibility is available to me as of yet. The most "complicated" jobs I've done so far are refurbishing the window motors and coolant drain/refill - basically, I'm a n00b.

[Sparky]

No worries mate! Good luck - hope you get your money back.

[Vanya]

As promised, here is a pic. Would have updated more but my account is a bit...limited (Will upgrade soon).

I'll mail the garage today...let's see what they say.

[jonwat]

Yes, that's definitely the wrong belt, looks as thought the teeth are starting to round off from being forced into the pulley teeth.

A few more miles & they'd start coming off.

[internets]

... (actually I am situated 25 mins drive from Arlanda!), ...

HA I am flying into there on the 8th September,....and out again 9th and on BA so Sparky could come with

[Mike6]

I am not sure about the Krikit. Although manufactured by Gates it is not for timing belts as such. Anyway someone very kindly sent me one and I followed the instructions exactly including setting to correct Krikit tension and checked and rechecked turning engine manually a number of times. I got it spot on.

Then at the Lotus Festival the other week it was looked at by the professionals and the verdict - too tight - slacken it a bit.

So, its very basic and not that accurate. The twist test probably works best but at least the Krikit will ensure its tight which is obviously much better than being slack. And, over usage the belt will stretch a bit so may well settle into correct tension.

[tje111]

Vanya et.al.,

FYI I play the string bass professionally and so can fly in for a proper 'strum' if needed.

Travis, for the best jazz sound use the index finger and keep your thumb against the fingerboard thermostat housing. ;-)

Straight ahead and strive for tone,

Tom

Edited August 31, 2012 by tje111

[Vanya]

Hahahaha the acoustical qualities of timing-belts. If I ever have the time on my hands, I'll buy a cheap Fender Jazz on eBay and string it with cambelts. I mean, rubber strings exist and all...but..it's just not the same.

When you say professionally, do you mean at a professional level, or you earn your living on it?

If the latter, extra kudos - making a living off of writing/performing music is a dream of mine. Right now however, I'm toughing it out as a development engineer. Not as glamorous.

/V

[Vanya]

Figured I'd follow this thread up with a positive conclusion:

I had the timing belt changed to the correct 912 variant initially introduced with HC-engines, works a charm, and makes driving the car a terror-free experience (for now).

My mechanic made a little video of the old belt with the trapezoidal teeth when the engine is running - I'll upload it here if anyone is interested. It shows the pulleys bouncing back and forth between the tooth flanks and the general rough running of the engine with the wrong belt installed. Furthermore, he also said the tension was set WAY off spec, far lower than what could be considered acceptable (he checked using the burroughs gauge).

To summarize, it was a botch job to end all botch jobs - to top it all off, the workshop didn't bother answering any of my (kindly worded) mails, which has got me thinking about revealing who they are before some other poor soul subjects his/her Esprit to their "work". I'm still seething about having paid in excess of 1700 pounds on belt changes this year and will think more than twice about who I hand my car over to in the future (if anyone...)

/V

[Whirlybird]

Name and shame.

And if you paid by credit card, speak to them. You can get your money back.

[jonwat]

Take them to court, it'll only cost a few hundred pounds in the Small Claims Court

I've done it against a holiday company, they ignored all of my letters & calls until the day before we were due in court, then they called & settled in full.

It's not worth their time & money fighting a case they know they're going to loose.