Scottish Independence

[iainskea]

Oops, sorry Wales, but Wiki will need fixing!

[mdavies]

But whatever the formal nature of their "home nation", in rough terms the Yes voters (as polled) make up 4.4% of the combined population of the Britain.  (UK say 60m, Scot say 5.3m, 50% Yes)

 

It would not be true to say that the other 95.6% put being British ahead of their "nationality", but I believe it is an overwhelming majority.

 

So 4.4% are being allowed to determine the future of the UK.

 

So is it fair to consider that those Yes voters care little or nothing for "Great Britain"?  I imagine that conclusion will set the basis for the approach of many south of the border in the "negotiations".

Edited September 11, 2014 by mdavies

[Chillidoggy]

I think this referendum lark is arse-about-face. Us Englanders should be asked if we want the Scots to be independent.

I just think we could have had it sorted ages ago, without all the kerfuffle.

[Bibs]

[Stirling_Villeneuve]

Is that the new 'NO' poster?

[Bibs]

[red vtec]

Can you not see dear Alex running in the background?

[andmac]

I think that's my ggggg grandfather 4th from the left. Don't think he'd be voting No.

[stephenbirdsall]

Even dear old Nessie seems to be jumping ship

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2752029/Another-blow-No-vote-First-banks-threaten-flee-independent-Scotland-appears-Loch-Ness-Monster-relocated-south-border.html

[andmac]

I'm predicting a huge rise in Ness ie spotting following a yes vote☺

[molemot]

A fine example of how the bayonet could, and did, defeat the "Highland Charge"....all the bravery in the world didn't help.  Being an Englishman of Scots descent, I have a foot in both camps here. The Scots joined the English to create Grest Britain on 1707 after several false starts...and the Union has been phenomenally successful. I do have reservations about the qualifications for voting in the decision process.....excluding all non-resident Scots but allowing resident immigrants the vote, for example...thus disenfranchising those Scots born in the country but who have moved elsewhere for work or other purposes... and reducing the age for voting to 16.... If the result is on a knife edge, as seems likely, and the scales are tipped by the vote of those who are not Scots born of Scots descent, then there may well be trouble.

[mdw]

I imagine the view is its not going to affect you much if you have moved elsewhere however people who have move in and work there have a very real interest in how they will be governed.   Getting 16 year olds to vote ..............well Alex may be misguided but hes not thick.   Probably didn't  remind them they are the ones most likely to pay the full price If it all goes wrong.  

[molemot]

 

 

[Kimbers]

I'm with you Mel. And to make it worse if you are a Scot but moved South or no longer in Scotland you don't get a vote.

 

They really are laying it on thick this morning and the SNP seem to have given up on reasoning (as they know they can't win it on that basis) and instead seem to purely be aiming it at dislike of the English, but more so the fact that "We don't get a say in who's voted in to Westminster and have Tories in when we don't want them."

 

Well, hello? What makes you any different from any other area that doesn't like the Tories being in power?

[Advantage]

There hasn't been a Tory Government since 1997.

[mdavies]

According to http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201213/ldselect/ldeconaf/152/15203.htm   (Appendix 5)

 

"For Scotland trade with the rest of the UK is a huge part of its economy representing almost two-thirds of its total trade and worth an estimated 68% of output. But for the rest of the UK trade with Scotland is a much smaller share of its economy—around 6% of its output."  (Source data from Scottish National Accounts.)

 

A good chunk of those "Scottish exports" are financial: "Scottish insurers sell 6% of their products there and 94% to the rest of the UK. About 16% of mortgages sold by Scottish firms are to Scottish postcodes and 84% to the rest of the UK."

 

It is probably that many organisations providing financial services will move south in name - and as tax payers? - anyway, but obviously an independent Scotland would be significantly dependent on rUK goodwill as regards continuing their exports.

 

Recently one of the papers warned "Hell hath no fury like an electorate scorned"; such a consequence could have an impact on that 68%, at least for some time.

 

I have close Scottish friends who are distraught at the prospect of a split and I take no pleasure in their pain to come from a Yes result. But  the pain that rUK will also suffer will make me think twice before I buy anything overtly Scottish in that case.  I just hope it doesn't happen.

 

(PS: I was alerted to that Govt. document only very recently - not heard of before - and have not even skimmed it significantly, let alone read it. Links to its contents and the rest are at the bottom of the linked page.) 

[Kimbers]

Is it time to get my money out of Aberdeen Asset Management? Doubled it in 3 years but started to creep down now.

[johnpwalsh]

Guys, do any of us really know how it's going to go, I for one don't and I still live in Scotland. No one has given as far as I know a clear concise honest ( we are speaking about politicians here) answer to most of the common questions. I.E. NHS, what will happen with it. Armed forces. Border's. It's all so easy to listen to either side and hear them say you will lose it, no we wont, the Armed forces are English, we will move them South, yep so you will leave your borders undefended, Financial business, they will move South, will they and at what cost to them, billions tied up in deserted property which no one would want as we wouldn't have the industry to take it over. and of course the age old oil industry and what it would cost. How many from South of the border still work within the industry. Newcastle, Durham, Shields to name but a few would be unemployment black spots if border control or employment law then said Scottish jobs for Scottish people, same as the financial houses saying we are moving South as most of our custom is South, well ok move South, pay off all your local staff and lose their experience, now what is it going to cost to retrain replacements and how long will it take. I honestly don't know which way I would vote but I do know that Scotland deserves a far bigger say in her country, her industry and her people. We have been raped and pillaged for years, the once huge and proud fishing industry gone, but foreign boats can still catch and land. Our engineering and shipbuilding gone, we can no longer compete, Steel industry gone, mining industry, gone.

What sums it up for me while working abroad every advert you see for visit Scotland depicts some nugget on a hill trying to shoot a Stag with a view of a waterfall and a mountain in the background, when the hell was the last time any normal Joe Bloggs from Glasgow, Edinburgh or Aberdeen ever went shooting Stags. 

[mdavies]

Fair comment IMO on just a few facets of the situation, John. Some do stem from the EU to which we are - at present - all subject and others are the "onward march of progress" (51% good to 49% bad in my view).  But all Scotland can do if Yes has the day is to grip Alex Salmond's hand very tightly and step forward into the unknown.

 

Now whose hand do we in the rUK reach for?................... the position seems open and the candidates that come to mind are either unknown - or known too well.

Edited September 15, 2014 by mdavies

[Kimbers]

Oh damn, Whiskey may get more expensive!

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

"We have been raped and pillaged for years, the once huge and proud fishing industry gone, but foreign boats can still catch and land. Our engineering and shipbuilding gone, we can no longer compete, Steel industry gone, mining industry, gone." That sounds exactly like England & Wales to me, so why should Scotland feel so hard done by?

[Kimbers]

And if they join EU then the foreign fishermen will still be able to do just that!

[Bibs]

If they don't they can send their Navy after them.. oh, wait...

[Advantage]

The two rowing boats Salmond will be able to afford will most likely be defending the oil fields from a Putin style embrace. The fishing rights will be a free for all.

[softlips]

^^^^ The NHS shouldn't change at all. NHS Scotland has always been completely separate to NHS England.