A/C Compressor - How hard / much time to remove and replace SE 1993

[MikieP]

Current shop now tells me the Compressor is leaking and already replacing the Schrader valve. Quoting me 14 hours to pull and replace. Are they nuts or is that about right. It is an SD-508 Type 8690. Seems to be no longer available new. A place in Texas said they could rebuild for $100 with a 1 year warranty.

 

Am I again being screwed by shop labor cost wise? If their time estimate is accurate, would this be the time to replace rotten steel gas tanks with aluminum ones? Thank you all in advance....

 

MikieP

[Sparky]

Did one on an SE a few weeks ago.  They'd be a bit naughty quoting more than 5 hours.

[dodge1979]

Bent over rotten. If it is indeed no good then they can be reconditioned in the uk for around 170 to 200 pounds. Removal time..well..including tea break an hour or so. The chances are that the "leak" can be fixed...how do you know its leaking? Have they put UV dye in the system. Have u seen using a uv light the dye around the compressor? Chances are not...

[Sparky]

Possible with the engine insitu by removing the alternator first.  Needs some short spanners though!

Mikie, this is a different shop to the one you originally had trouble with, right?

[MikieP]

Wow. Did not expect some many kind replies so quickly!!!!!

 

Darren

 

An hour or so? Really? Nuts. So now this second shop screwing me now as well. I do not KNOW it is leaking - they just told me it is over the phone. Apparently they need more money from me? I know the seal can be replaced - possibly. But in situ?

 

Gary,

 

Yes, this is the second shop. Want a trip to the ocean here in Delaware? lol. Seems like 14 hours is rape then?

[Sparky]

5 hours would include refill/leak check!

 

Would love to mate, just have to catch up with a backlog after a couple months sick.  If you're still up for it in a few months, then let's talk.  Haven't been to Delaware yet...

[MikieP]

Gary, PM sent.

 

All:

 

Have to run out now to do some errands on deceased brother's house in next town over but will be back in couple three hours....

 

MikieP

[dodge1979]

The compressor can be reconditioned but not in the car..if theyre talking about it leaking from either union where the pipes connect onto the pump then that can be easily solved by unscrewing and using a ptfe thread tape then screwing back on..10mins. Then obviously a refill etc as you have lost the gas. These sanden compressors are very reliable units. Mine is 20 yrs old now never rebuilt and ive just successfully had the system PROPERLY converted over the r134 from original r12. Its never worked so good! Cabin temperature got down to 3.2 degrees when it was done a few weeks ago. Its still working now which is more than I can say fir previous attempts by 'specialist' aircon peoples...as with everything on the esprit there is a particular method and reason to getting it working correctly!

[red vtec]

My ac guy put a product from wurth through the system it swells the seals and fixed the issue, might be worth a try first.

[MikieP]

Darren,

 

The shop was not specific in what the actual leak was ergo making me think they are making excuses to make money back on the items that were not correct when the car was picked up last Friday. Therefore I have told them to not do the compressor now. I will live with it since I have yet to check the sight glass, see the leak, and get reasonable explanation of what is actually leaking. The actual compressor in the car I am told is an Sanden SD508, type 8690 which I have not been able to verify as correct for this car, and, it is no longer available for sale in a new condition here in the US. Tech Services in Texas said they can repair for $100 with one day service, but extrication and replacement is still a bugger for me, shop time wise. A friend of mine being a SAAB Master Mechanic and the SAAB 900's used this same compressor but who refuses to work on this due to its obvious differences from SAAB's stated the compressor shaft seal is usually what goes, but not having it in hand can not tell if it can be accessed easily...

 

134a requires a lot of modifications to the entire system, all seals, compressor type, some hose replacement, drier, and others for optimum cooling and long life of the system. I was a MAC guy some years ago so I know that sometimes you can skip a lot of the parts and be lucky and it works, but longevity is suspect due to molecule's smaller size, seal permeability, oil differences, etc. Being past the age of doing mechanical work, having limited hip function, the necessary line replacements through the sills, just getting under the car is past my day for the most part. Spending a good sum to coat the interior of the windshield and getting pulled over as it is not legal here or in Delaware (my soon to be state of residence) is not the solution although it would be a great help in minimizing heat gain in the cabin. I have only replaced one Sanden SD508 in any of my 900T's over the past 35 (3 cars) years of ownership and 450,000 miles so I am aware of their quality. That is one reason I am not taking the shop's word on it being the culprit at this time... Sorry for the long winded reply.

 

Chris,

 

Wurth makes the only products I would ever consider using in R12 systems. However as I have not had the car in my hands since turning it over to the first POS over two years ago, I can not tell if I can 1) get to the compressor to try and put a vacuum on it and try to discern leak down times and two, whether I can reach it to inject some Wurth stop leak oil into the line. Some pics I have seen of the rear of the engine, it's a maybe, and some seem to show that I may not be able to. Will have to wait until I get my car back from the shop again, successfully drive it and then see if I can get to it to pull a vacuum and watch its behavior. If I can reach it and vacuum holds at 20 or more for a day or two, then stop leak may do the job. I do wonder if they used teflon on the connections already. Will take some exploration on my part now. I can not afford their quoted 14 hour shop time for this. Accessibility is the critical factor for me these days.

 

Thanks very much guys.

[Chillidoggy]

At the risk of hijacking Mikie's thread, just WHY are so many Esprit A/C's not working? Every car I've seen on my search has no working air-con, and they all had the R134 gas systems.

 

And given the cabin is so damned hot, I can't understand the reason.

Edited June 1, 2014 by ian29gte

[red vtec]

At the risk of hijacking Mikie's thread, just WHY are so many Esprit A/C's not working? Every car I've seen on my search has no working air-con, and they all had the R134 gas systems.

 

And given the cabin is so damned hot, I can't understand the reason.

My thoughts exactly., it's the one thing I do like on the car.

[dodge1979]

Well peoples a systems arnt working because 9out of10 get took to a company that in reality dont do it correctly. Ive been to 3 different ones in my ownership and number4 has actually sorted it out correctly. There is more to it than just draining and refilling and adding oil. You do not need to change compressors or pipes or seals or actually anything at all unless it is faulty. What needs to happen is a correct systematic conversion. This includes initially filling with r12 and testing the whole system. Once its established that everything works correctly as should the system is then drained. Without going into too much detail the system is drained and flushed through thoroughly and during the process an "ester" oil is used. This enables the system to handle the r134 gas without the need to change anything. Its a lengthy process but this is where mist companies fall down. Not only do they not use this oil but they dont spend long enough doing it! So once its all cleaned out and ready for 134 gas its refilled and tested again..its important to note that 10to15% LESS gas is used with r134 than r12.

Its a long process with various test and retests involved and more detailed than ive said BUT it took nearly 2and half hours on my esprit the other week and as ive mentioned the results are fantastic.

I genuinely believe that there are too many aircon places out there that just cut corners and dont get results then tell you a load of bull regarding replacing this that and the other. It cost me £90 all in to get my system working to a level that im actually amazed by.

So if anyone thinks the esprit aircon system is rubbish or the condenser is inadequate and has to be replaced with a new design etc blah blah is merely misguided by the usual false information that tends to surround this car. Its just a case of going to the right place and getting it sorted by people who actually know what theyre talking about..

[red vtec]

Darren,

Completely agree, I have wasted hundreds of pounds in the past with cowboy A/C companies. I now use one where the guy really knows his stuff and does the job correctly. He will even replace pipes etc.

I have been told that they are actually bringing in a new gas to supersede the current stuff, I'm going to speak to my guy and ask what I need to change etc to allow me to run it. As I'm taking the engine out at the mo. I think the new stuff requires different ports.

Chris

[MikieP]

When my R12 system was working it was quite adequate to keep me cool in the peak of summer here although the fan speed needed to be on max during day. Just that it had a slow leak (stayed OK for some 3 months at a time) somewhere and the first mechanic did nothing to find it although his billings stated he did find it.

 

These are the pitfalls of a car that is some 20 years old IMHO. My SAAB 900T's had far simpler access to system components so leaks could be found with greater ease using my gas detector, dye, etc, and repaired quite simply in most cases leading to probably better, more consistently anyways, A/C system maintenance? Access on my SE is far more difficult - think hoses through sills, etc.

 

As it has not run for over two years, I would suspect that all seals are done along with dryer being full of snot. Hard to say without a complete system replacement of at least all seals. Bummed but deep down I rather expected this outcome. Just disappointed the shop did not do the job it told me it had done.

[Escape]

At the risk of hijacking Mikie's thread, just WHY are so many Esprit A/C's not working? Every car I've seen on my search has no working air-con, and they all had the R134 gas systems.

 

And given the cabin is so damned hot, I can't understand the reason.

 

I see a lot, if not most, cars over 10 years old with airco problems, regardless of the brand. Sometimes all that is needed is a refill, often there is a leak somewhere, or the compressor clutch isn't activating/gripping etc. Most systems weren't designed to last 10+ years. I have taken the A/C out of all my cars, I prefer a sunroof anyway and get enough A/C air forced into my lungs in the office.

[MikieP]

It can get hot here (95F +) and without at least UV solar film on the front window which is illegal here, the car gets very hot inside unless moving at speed so not having a functioning A/C system makes it unpleasant to drive during many summer afternoons.

[lotus4s]

Mike,

 

IMHO, do not put any sealer in the system and do not convert to R134a if you can avoid it. The system works so much better with R12 and you will never get the same cooling ability and efficiency if you change.  IIRC, a Sanden 508 model 9036 is a direct replacement. A good re-man compressor is not a problem, I have used them on several Esprits with no issues. I have bought several from Tech Choice parts in Texas if that is who you are referring to.

 

As long as the evaporator and condenser are not leaking, the rest of the problem areas are not too bad to work on. The expansion valve can be a bit of a pain but very doable in a couple of hours. (take the passenger seat out for easier access) It's common for the O-rings at the expansion valve to leak. It's not too common for the hoses through the body to have any significant leak but that would be a pretty big task to replace.

 

Cheers,

Jim

[Chillidoggy]

I'm wondering whether the length of pipe from compressor to condenser has any bearing on lack of efficiency?

[910Esprit]

I wouldn't have thought so as the pressure would be the same regardless of length.   Mine was almost too cold on R12,  I also remember reading contempary reviews about this (freezing knees!).  

[dodge1979]

Well as we cant use r12 anymore (at least in the uk) thats kinda pointless you have to convert to r134 so the conversion is still worthwhile. And regardless of what some people say the compressor will work well with the newer gas. Theres just too much false info out there..

[MikieP]

def not going to convert to 134a until I run out of R12. less efficient unless things are changed out. Still waiting for shop to tell me shop hours they want to bill for compressor remove and replace times. Personally not sure they are correct about the leak at this time anyway. Perhaps this week they will deign to talk to me. Dunno. I have a r12 freon detector that I used for years on my 900T's so this may be the way I will go forward...

[60N4.7]

And there is more to replace than just the compressor.. at very least better be damned good at removing ALL the old stuff. Even then the old lines, seals, etc as a general rule dont play nice with the R34...

[dodge1979]

They do work fine

[MikieP]

Well, shop got back to me with an eight hour labor time for the compressor in and out. Seems like I can not locate a new SD508 9036 type anywhere. Reman is perhaps the only solution now? Still do not have the car back so can not double check the part number (they gave me 9136) or check for leaks.